Help please! 1909-S VDB

Kliao

A person contacted me with pictures of a off center ‘09s VDB to sell. I’m very suspicious of the coin being genuine. Would like a few others opinions.

Treashunt

VERY, VERY DOUBTFUL

Just my gut reaction.

Kliao

@Treashunt said:
VERY, VERY DOUBTFUL

Just my gut reaction.

Yes especially with him not being able to provide a clear picture of the reverse.

TurtleCat

Run far, run fast. If that was anything close to legitimate they would make far more by having it certified.

lusterlover

The S looks too big and is too high up. Fake IMO.

cmerlo1

Not genuine.

291fifth

PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kliao

Ok thanks all.

Commencents

Worth 3 cents.

Just my Two cents.

robec

Abe and the wheat stalks look off also.

amwldcoin

Yeap...MM is all wrong.

jonathanb

Not doubtful at all. Totally, completely fake, without any doubt.

On the plus side, it's also completely illegal to counterfeit US coins, so you could sic the US Secret Service on the seller if you had a mind to go down that route.

Namvet69

And you should, so the cops can at the least seize that item and get it out of circulation. IMO. Peace Roy

Jimnight

Why isn't this coin graded ... I don't like it.

Oldhoopster

There are 4 known mm locations for a genuine 1909-SVDB. In addition the location of the periods in VDB as well as the middle bar of the B can be used as diagnostics

mr1931S

Fake.

cameonut2011

Mushy detail... Very bad fake.

JBK

I would never buy an 09SVDB that isn't graded. Period.

Any seller should know the issue with fakes and realize that it is well worth getting that coin graded. If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.

MasonG

@JBK said:
If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.

Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.

jmlanzaf

@MasonG said:

@JBK said:
If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.

Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.

Agree. MOST VDBs I see in collections are raw. I mean 80%. It's not even close.

That doesn't mean people don't need to be careful with raw but it is a myth that all our even most such coins are slabbed. Same with most other 20th century keys

MasonG

@jmlanzaf said:
That doesn't mean people don't need to be careful with raw but it is a myth that all our even most such coins are slabbed.

My 09-S VDB isn't slabbed. In my defense, I'm not sure which grading company I should have been considering in 1972.

davewesen

Here is an auction with the same fake die, with better AT
https://ebay.co.uk/itm/coinage-error-one-cent-1909-S-/114063036146?hash=item1a8eafcef2%3Ag%3AJjAAAOSwhcZeGw0b&nma=true&si=SRTrYp52UkngXEXth0ST5SRrvkk%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I was intrigued with their fake 55 DDO

PerryHall

@MasonG said:

@JBK said:
If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.

Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.

Many of these old sets have fake key date coins. It was not unusual to find a 1909 VDB cent with an S mintmark glued on as far back as at least the 1950's.

MasonG

@PerryHall said:
Many of these old sets have fake key date coins. It was not unusual to find a 1909 VDB cent with an S mintmark glued on as far back as at least the 1950's.

Sure, that's always possible. Doesn't change the fact that lots of legitimate pieces are still raw.

AUandAG

These were being sold on Aliexpress or Alibaba (don't remember which one) and it is a fake.

bob

jmlanzaf

@AUandAG said:
These were being sold on Aliexpress or Alibaba (don't remember which one) and it is a fake.

bob

Yes. 55 DDO off centers also.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

MaineJim

Kinda looks like this -

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/American-Penny-1909-S-VDB-Out_62423753536.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.3b8e2adaRJVpLP

JBK

@MasonG said:

@PerryHall said:
Many of these old sets have fake key date coins. It was not unusual to find a 1909 VDB cent with an S mintmark glued on as far back as at least the 1950's.

Sure, that's always possible. Doesn't change the fact that lots of legitimate pieces are still raw.

I think my own opinion on this has been misunderstood.

I am not saying that there are not legitimate pieces that aren't slabbed, but rather that anyone selling such a coin today should get it slabbed for the very reason that there are so many fakes that being slabbed will increase its marketabity.

The fact that the coin in the original post is a known Chinese forgery sort of proves the point. It's not slabbed because it is fake. Potential buyers beware.

Hemispherical

@davewesen said:
Here is an auction with the same fake die, with better AT
https://ebay.co.uk/itm/coinage-error-one-cent-1909-S-/114063036146?hash=item1a8eafcef2%3Ag%3AJjAAAOSwhcZeGw0b&nma=true&si=SRTrYp52UkngXEXth0ST5SRrvkk%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I was intrigued with their fake 55 DDO

Now we have fingerprints (on the finger).

I’m sure the three-lettered agencies could do something with it if of enough interest... if...

ricko

Clearly a fake...there are many venues for these....Just being raw, does not necessarily indicate a fake....as mentioned above, many, many collections in albums, have key coins not slabbed...Due diligence required...Cheers, RickO

PerryHall

The counterfeiters use the same dies to create both non-error key date coins and error key date coins. They're getting quite creative.

CaptHenway

With six you get egg roll.

TwoSides2aCoin

If we say "oooh", it causes a flood of more low-life beings to churn out fodder.

mr1931S

Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.

And then there are collectors out there who will break a coin such as 1909 SVDB out of its TPG holder so that it can reside in an album with the other coins.

Carefully done, breakout can be accomplished keeping the holder intact. Dremel works great to accomplish this.

mr1931S

I would never buy an 09SVDB that isn't graded. Period.

Good advice. And I say this with myself having the requisite knowledge...

well, let's just say it would be nearly impossible to get a raw, fake 1909 SVDB by me.

At the end of the day, the solution for me is to let someone else pay the cost of getting the SVDB slabbed.

JimW

@mr1874 said:
Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.

And then there are collectors out there who will break a coin such as 1909 SVDB out of its TPG holder so that it can reside in an album with the other coins.

Carefully done, breakout can be accomplished keeping the holder intact. Dremel works great to accomplish this.

That is what I did - still have the holder and picture of the coin in the holder, examination will show the raw coin is that same one formerly in holder.

TroyW

This china fake can be bought for a couple bucks

johnny9434

bogus & pass

lkeigwin

@JBK said:
I would never buy an 09SVDB that isn't graded. Period.

Any seller should know the issue with fakes and realize that it is well worth getting that coin graded. If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.

Totally agree. But I did once...

It was part of an estate of mostly junk silver and Franklin Mint stuff. There was also a 14-D that was clearly an added mintmark so I was skeptical and paid very little for the supposed S-VDB. It graded AU53. (And yes, I took care of the heir who sold me her dad's coins.)
Lance.