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Help please! 1909-S VDB

KliaoKliao Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

A person contacted me with pictures of a off center ‘09s VDB to sell. I’m very suspicious of the coin being genuine. Would like a few others opinions.

Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics

Comments

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020 4:45PM

    VERY, VERY DOUBTFUL

    Just my gut reaction.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Treashunt said:
    VERY, VERY DOUBTFUL

    Just my gut reaction.

    Yes especially with him not being able to provide a clear picture of the reverse.

    Young Numismatist/collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not genuine.

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    All glory is fleeting.
  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok thanks all. :)

    Young Numismatist/collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

  • robecrobec Posts: 6,581 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Abe and the wheat stalks look off also.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeap...MM is all wrong.

  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not doubtful at all. Totally, completely fake, without any doubt.

    On the plus side, it's also completely illegal to counterfeit US coins, so you could sic the US Secret Service on the seller if you had a mind to go down that route.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,625 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And you should, so the cops can at the least seize that item and get it out of circulation. IMO. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why isn't this coin graded ... I don't like it.

  • OldhoopsterOldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are 4 known mm locations for a genuine 1909-SVDB. In addition the location of the periods in VDB as well as the middle bar of the B can be used as diagnostics

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fake.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mushy detail... Very bad fake.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would never buy an 09SVDB that isn't graded. Period.

    Any seller should know the issue with fakes and realize that it is well worth getting that coin graded. If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.

    Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @JBK said:
    If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.

    Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.

    Agree. MOST VDBs I see in collections are raw. I mean 80%. It's not even close.

    That doesn't mean people don't need to be careful with raw but it is a myth that all our even most such coins are slabbed. Same with most other 20th century keys

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    That doesn't mean people don't need to be careful with raw but it is a myth that all our even most such coins are slabbed.

    My 09-S VDB isn't slabbed. In my defense, I'm not sure which grading company I should have been considering in 1972. ;)

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @JBK said:
    If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.

    Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.

    Many of these old sets have fake key date coins. It was not unusual to find a 1909 VDB cent with an S mintmark glued on as far back as at least the 1950's.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Many of these old sets have fake key date coins. It was not unusual to find a 1909 VDB cent with an S mintmark glued on as far back as at least the 1950's.

    Sure, that's always possible. Doesn't change the fact that lots of legitimate pieces are still raw.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These were being sold on Aliexpress or Alibaba (don't remember which one) and it is a fake.

    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    These were being sold on Aliexpress or Alibaba (don't remember which one) and it is a fake.

    bob

    Yes. 55 DDO off centers also.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @PerryHall said:
    Many of these old sets have fake key date coins. It was not unusual to find a 1909 VDB cent with an S mintmark glued on as far back as at least the 1950's.

    Sure, that's always possible. Doesn't change the fact that lots of legitimate pieces are still raw.

    I think my own opinion on this has been misunderstood.

    I am not saying that there are not legitimate pieces that aren't slabbed, but rather that anyone selling such a coin today should get it slabbed for the very reason that there are so many fakes that being slabbed will increase its marketabity.

    The fact that the coin in the original post is a known Chinese forgery sort of proves the point. It's not slabbed because it is fake. Potential buyers beware.

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now we have fingerprints (on the finger). :D

    I’m sure the three-lettered agencies could do something with it if of enough interest... if...

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Clearly a fake...there are many venues for these....Just being raw, does not necessarily indicate a fake....as mentioned above, many, many collections in albums, have key coins not slabbed...Due diligence required...Cheers, RickO

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The counterfeiters use the same dies to create both non-error key date coins and error key date coins. They're getting quite creative. :#

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With six you get egg roll.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If we say "oooh", it causes a flood of more low-life beings to churn out fodder.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.

    And then there are collectors out there who will break a coin such as 1909 SVDB out of its TPG holder so that it can reside in an album with the other coins.

    Carefully done, breakout can be accomplished keeping the holder intact. Dremel works great to accomplish this.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would never buy an 09SVDB that isn't graded. Period.

    Good advice. And I say this with myself having the requisite knowledge...

    well, let's just say it would be nearly impossible to get a raw, fake 1909 SVDB by me.

    At the end of the day, the solution for me is to let someone else pay the cost of getting the SVDB slabbed.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • JimWJimW Posts: 540 ✭✭✭✭

    @mr1874 said:
    Not talking about this item in particular, but there are still collectors out there who put their sets together before slabs became popular. So that's one reason why a legitimate 09-S VDB might not be in a slab.

    And then there are collectors out there who will break a coin such as 1909 SVDB out of its TPG holder so that it can reside in an album with the other coins.

    Carefully done, breakout can be accomplished keeping the holder intact. Dremel works great to accomplish this.

    That is what I did - still have the holder and picture of the coin in the holder, examination will show the raw coin is that same one formerly in holder.

    Successful BST Transactions: erwindoc, VTchaser, moursund, robkool, RelicKING, Herb_T, Meltdown

  • TroyWTroyW Posts: 42 ✭✭

    This china fake can be bought for a couple bucks

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    bogus & pass

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    I would never buy an 09SVDB that isn't graded. Period.

    Any seller should know the issue with fakes and realize that it is well worth getting that coin graded. If it is not in a slab there must be a reason.

    Totally agree. But I did once...

    It was part of an estate of mostly junk silver and Franklin Mint stuff. There was also a 14-D that was clearly an added mintmark so I was skeptical and paid very little for the supposed S-VDB. It graded AU53. (And yes, I took care of the heir who sold me her dad's coins.)
    Lance.

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