Eureka! I have found it! 1875-CC “Wide CC” Trade Dollar
mbogoman
Posts: 5,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
Now there are three. The “Wide CC” (1.2mm) Trade dollars are a well known subset of the series among Trade dollar collectors. Starting with the 1873-CC and ending with the 1876-CC, a small number from each year were minted using the same reverse die with a 1.2mm wide, small cc mint mark. Until recently, the only examples were from 1873, 1874 and 1876. All are rare or scarce, with the 74-CC generally thought of as the toughest, followed by the 73 and then the 76. For years collectors wondered about the apparent gap year of 1875, searching in vain for an example. Then, a couple years ago a board member here found the first 1875 “Wide CC” and shortly after that another was found. Both have issues, grading XF details (one is cleaned, the other has minor rim damage). Last week I plucked this one off of Ebay. It is a very wholesome looking coin, grading VF30 at PCGS. At this time, it is the only known, no problem straight graded example of this very rare variety, which kinda makes it the “Finest Known”. It completes the “Wide CC” subset for me. I am SO stoked to have found it!
Cheers!
mbogoman
Asesabi Lutho
Comments
Congratulations mbogoman on finding a rare coin for your subset coin collection! It looks to be a very nice one, again, congrats on finally finding one for yourself!
Very nice! A very rare die combination; no examples of this reverse die can be considered common, but this is the king of the set.
Your thoughts, @Crypto ?
Very nice pickup- too bad it doesnt have a chop mark :d
seriously though, congrats. that is one of the tough ones!
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
Congrats on getting your white whale!
It looks very nice even if it were the common variety!
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Very nice coin! Congrats.
Awesome and I'm happy for you.
Love the look of it too.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Way to go sir. I love the look of that one.
Wow good for you!
What a find! Congratulations. and a beautiful looking circulated trade dollar, regardless of rarity.
That's awesome! Congratulations!!
AKA Pakasmom
Due diligence and knowledge pays off. Good find
Nice Wholesome Coin!
Congrats on having the tenacity to not give up and finding the last piece to complete your Trade Dollar wide "C C" short set.
I would be stoked too.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
Congrats, nice looking coin. Persistence pays off.
@mbogoman. Divecchia beat me to the "I'd be stoked too" comment.
I most certainly would be.
Pete
Congratulations @mbogoman!
Sweet!
Very cool coin... Well done! Does this coin complete the Trade dollar set completely or is it just the subset? What’s next on the list.
Congrats, I too was wondering, not jokingky, about the absence of chopmarks, would you rather have a td with or with out the marks for your subset?
Huge congrats, that is much nicer than the one that I found
I prefer no chops. None of my Trade dollars are chopped.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
I never set out to build a complete Trade dollar set when this all started many years ago. First it was just a CC Trade dollar for my silver dollar type set. Then I decided to build a CC dollar set. Then about 7 years ago I saw Crypto's old Hub-Type set in the Registry and I was hooked! I have been lucky enough to have acquired almost all of the rare, tough, hard to find varieties, many in the "wild". Right now, all I have left to acquire are some "commons": 73-S, 74-S, 75-S Type 2 and 77-P (I'm looking for the DDO on this one). I strive for original looking coins in choice XF to AU58, but of course with some of the tougher varieties you take what you can get. At some point this year I'll be putting my set up on the Registry - just haven't got around to it yet...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Congratulations on a unique find.... Your set sounds impressive. Look forward to seeing it. Cheers, RickO
Holy Crap
Only the third known and the only graded example. I agree with the others that say that is a charming example of a CC dollar even without the super Cool 1.2mm Wide CC. You are a scholar and a gentlemen and I applaud you for how you built your set. I actually miss the Wide CCs and the 76s DDO the most. Those were the coins that always were the first to come out of the box.
The 75cc wide is up there with the
75p type 1/1 (in UNC)
76p Type 2/2 (in UNC)
76s DDO (graded)
75cc wide (any)
are the kings of the set and define the collector
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Jealous
I have been following his set for a few years and his hunting has been refreshing to see compared to some low comprehension trophy hunters. It is the studying and friends that make the hobby. The looking and finding.
The money and profit/ loss aspect can make you lose sight of the history and comparing your coins to other peoples will always make you see the flaws in yours. A grade or sticker doesn’t make a coin, the owner’s comprehension of what they (ok “he” 99.9999% of the time) have does IMHO
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Very nice! I just picked up the 74 wide CC PCGS50 at FUN for my Variety Type Set.
Congrats!! Intensely tough coin to find! Great job! One of three known!!!!!! Keoj
What are the conditions of the three known examples? I pulled an image off the internet some time (?) ago of a
raw XF/AU.
One has a very slight rim ding. No cleaning, just a rim impact. Barely discernable but correctly attributed.. Grade is approx. VF 30 to XF 40.
Congrats, super nice find! I'm so glad you got it.
Any post that brings out our beloved TD-loving Yeti @keoj must be special indeed!
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
only chopped for me
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
This is the same story for me. I really thought it was only going to be a type coin. How was I wrong!
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
Welcome to the dark side!!!
lets see it!
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I found the 76-cc wide with a chop... but thats most common of the 4.
it's XF cleaned
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
I will definitely get a pic when I can.
OLD THREAD ALERT
Believe it or not, a short ~7 years after @stealer found the first, there are now 8 examples of the 75-c c.
I post this now because two of these became available in public auction within the past month, both XF cleaned.
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/2088637
https://coins.ha.com/itm/trade-dollars/p/132624-27028.s
I have a mostly complete census of these but won't publish non-public ownership details for privacy.
I have been attempting to put together the very wide c c 4-year set for the last several years. It's interesting to me that I've now come across three of the ultra scarce 75 but only one 73, zero 74 and maybe a handful of 76 in that time.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Yes, congratulations! My white whale is the fifth variety of 1909-S V.D.B. penny. Unfortunately, not so obvious as widely spaced "Cs" are on Trade dollars.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
I miss DIMEMAN.:'(
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
I previously owned a nice example of 1876-CC wide CC, and unwittingly sold it to another dealer. 😧
Now I spend my time / energy chasing the Briggs 1-A quarters. 😁
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
How could a die be used between four years of production yet only a handful of the coins are known?
Collector, occasional seller
There are a handful of theories. My favorite (completely made-up) one is that this was the workers' emergency backup die. It mostly sat on the shelf and only got pulled down when they needed it. Or maybe a favored die, just like a line cook might have a favorite knife.
The population numbers kind of fit that story. Since 1873 was the first year of production, it probably saw a little more use, which would explain why it has the second-highest pop. In 1874 and 1875 it mostly sat on the shelf, leading to the lowest pops, especially in 1875, when the Type 2 reverse was introduced and might have handled more of the workload.
Then in 1876, the last year the Type 1 reverse was used, they may have figured they might as well get every last strike out of the die before retiring it. That would explain why 1876 has the highest pop.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Nice catch 👌
Allow me to add to @lermish excellent handful of die theories.
1873 was the first production year and US Government implementation was in a sense rushed politically.
The dies were created largely by hand (not modern day production techniques) in Philadelphia and shipped cross country. It was a very big deal relatively in 1873 to manufacturing these dies and ship them.
This reverse day was a clear production mistake and some “tool and die guy” screwed up and Philadelphia Quality Control did not catch it OR “simply didn’t want to catch it” because of management reasons and production timelines partly imposed politically. Remember the enacting legislation on Trade Dollars there was nothing noble about it, it was all special interests. Does anyone think the House and Senate was nobler and honest in 1873 than today?
The die gets to Carson City and someone quickly realizes this reverse die should have been scrapped but they have production needs that they need to meet and scrapping this die if it’s ever “needed” could screw them because they would be dependent on a new reverse die being made and shipped.
So what does every good US Government Employee do? I doubt internal US Government employee driving forces were different then as today….cough cough.
You do as any red blood American US Government employee would do and put this “largely functional reverse die” in reserve and pull it out if another reverse die fails or you need to set up another production line. It’s “just in case” and no doubt to scrap this brand new reverse die would require stacks of paper work! There is no way scrapping this reverse die would be simple………lots of paper work and lots of explaining especially at “Philadelphia Head Office.” Though I suspect someone back in Philadelphia was verbally told and was thankful the die would still be used in Carson City without reams of paper work scrapping it and the explanations…….
I also suspect that someone in Carson City looked at this reverse die and said something along the line; “It’s good enough to strike Trade Dollars that are going to China to be melted.” That would have been the final internal justification as to why you didn’t do the paper work to scrap a die that did not meet likely standards.
Use of the die in later years? Now that could have also been mischief making in addition to real production needs. A lower level US Government employee making a statement that was an otherwise deep in the know secret.
Anyways my two cents.
Is there actually a wider gap between C's or are they a smaller font?
Yes.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
For the Very Wide 73-CC, 74-CC, 75-CC and 76-CC TD varieties (same die), the gap is 1.2 mm between the C's.
For the Wide CC 73-CC and 74-CC TD varieties (different die than above), the gap is 1.0 mm between the C's.
Hope this helps. keoj