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Holy Crap 1838-C $5 from DWN

BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,407 ✭✭✭✭✭

$375,000 and truly wow!

Comments

  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,320 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i just wrote @jonruns with a similar reaction.

    If I were a collector of classic gold and I had the ability...even via a stretch....to own that coin, I would be all over it.
    Simply amazing coin.

  • TomBTomB Posts: 22,090 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Holy Crud!

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    beautiful

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • jonrunsjonruns Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely an amazing coin!!!

  • Wahoo554Wahoo554 Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How does this exist??

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019 12:45PM

    Great looking piece! PCGS doesn't list any provenance. Anyone know the history of this coin?

    It's amazing that there's no named provenance for this coin in Doug's article. Anyone know who the "eastern dealer" is?

    Here are the TrueViews for the Winter specimen and the Pogue specimen for comparison. It's amazing that the Bass specimen sold for $235,000 on a $60,000-$90,000 estimate! It would be great for the market if the Winter specimen sold for more!

    1838 Charlotte $5 - Doug Winter Specimen - PCGS MS63+ CAC

    1838 Charlotte $5 - Bass-Lustig-Pogue Specimen - PCGS MS63

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,276 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    $375,000 and truly wow!

    yours boosibri? ;)

  • YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    WOW!

    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is nice to see such rarities still pop up from time to time. What a coin!

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • SIowhandSIowhand Posts: 364 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A stunning coin.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My Mama told me to keep quiet if I had nothing good to say; but I was an unruly child.

    There are three coins posted in this thread. I can see "Wow" on one of them and a very close to "wow" on another.
    Please educate me about the other coin in the OP. Why the "Wow?" is it the price, its color, or....? I don't think it is a case of becoming "jaded" because at least one coin rated a 100% "Wow."

  • nagsnags Posts: 822 ✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    My Mama told me to keep quiet if I had nothing good to say; but I was an unruly child.

    There are three coins posted in this thread. I can see "Wow" on one of them and a very close to "wow" on another.
    Please educate me about the other coin in the OP. Why the "Wow?" is it the price, its color, or....? I don't think it is a case of becoming "jaded" because at least one coin rated a 100% "Wow."

    Aren't there only (2) coins posted? The OP coin is the same as the top glamour shot I believe.

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,407 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    My Mama told me to keep quiet if I had nothing good to say; but I was an unruly child.

    There are three coins posted in this thread. I can see "Wow" on one of them and a very close to "wow" on another.
    Please educate me about the other coin in the OP. Why the "Wow?" is it the price, its color, or....? I don't think it is a case of becoming "jaded" because at least one coin rated a 100% "Wow."

    There are three pictures of a total of two coins... the DWN coin with his photos, the trueviews if the same coin and the Pogue coin. Both are WOW coins too me but I live the deep coloration on the one in the OP while the strike and details are sharper in the Pogue piece.

    Care to share your opinion?

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    $375,000 and truly wow!

    This is an important rare coin that also looks and acts the part

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These remarkable coins have caused palpitations in this old gold bug.... :o Cheers, RickO

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:
    It is nice to see such rarities still pop up from time to time. What a coin!

    Agree! Especially with no public provenance. It's such a treat when these show up.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019 1:40PM

    Now that this coin is out, how much will it affect the Bass-Pogue coin's price now that it's no longer the finest known? This is the following from the Stack's sale regarding the Bass-Pogue coin:

    The Finest Known 1838-C Half Eagle

    The Sole Mint State Specimen Certified by PCGS
    [...]
    "I have only seen one uncirculated specimen, the coin in Stack's 4/78 sale ..." - David Akers, United States Gold Coins: An Analysis of Auction Records, Volume IV, Half Eagles 1795-1929, 1979
    [...]
    Just as the rarity of this date has no rivals in high grade, the Bass-Pogue 1838-C half eagle's hold on the title of finest known is unchallenged, with no competitors particularly close. This is the only Mint State example of the issue certified by PCGS.

  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Rare company.

    Many happy BST transactions
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:

    @Insider2 said:
    My Mama told me to keep quiet if I had nothing good to say; but I was an unruly child.

    There are three coins posted in this thread. I can see "Wow" on one of them and a very close to "wow" on another.
    Please educate me about the other coin in the OP. Why the "Wow?" is it the price, its color, or....? I don't think it is a case of becoming "jaded" because at least one coin rated a 100% "Wow."

    There are three pictures of a total of two coins... the DWN coin with his photos, the trueviews if the same coin and the Pogue coin. Both are WOW coins too me but I live the deep coloration on the one in the OP while the strike and details are sharper in the Pogue piece.

    Care to share your opinion?

    Thanks to all for the correction. Now only one is a "Wow" for me, the Bass/Pogue coin. The other is very nice but does not excite me at all. Perhaps I would be impressed if I knew it could buy a nice house and very few Unc's must exist from the very low mintage. I very rarely like dirty gold.

    So it seems that the deep original coloration pushes the "Wow" button for many folks. Thanks.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said: "Now that this coin is out, how much will it affect the Bass-Pogue coin's price now that it's no longer the finest known?"

    First my apologies to Mama as my mouth keeps working overtime...

    IMHO, in spite of their grades, the two posted coins are VERY FAR APART in their condition of preservation and eye appeal. The Bass/Pogue coin is STILL the finest known - just look at the two. NO CONTEST at all!

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    @Zoins said: "Now that this coin is out, how much will it affect the Bass-Pogue coin's price now that it's no longer the finest known?"

    First my apologies to Mama as my mouth keeps working overtime...

    IMHO, in spite of their grades, the two posted coins are VERY FAR APART in their condition of preservation and eye appeal. The Bass/Pogue coin is STILL the finest known - just look at the two. NO CONTEST at all!

    Wow. I literally could not disagree more. I wouldn’t write a check for 200k for the Pogue coin but I would consider writing a much bigger check for the cited OP coin.

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019 2:13PM

    My oh my. I just checked my emails. Dayum. Momma said knock you out

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:

    @Insider2 said:
    @Zoins said: "Now that this coin is out, how much will it affect the Bass-Pogue coin's price now that it's no longer the finest known?"

    First my apologies to Mama as my mouth keeps working overtime...

    IMHO, in spite of their grades, the two posted coins are VERY FAR APART in their condition of preservation and eye appeal. The Bass/Pogue coin is STILL the finest known - just look at the two. NO CONTEST at all!

    Wow. I literally could not disagree more. I wouldn’t write a check for 200k for the Pogue coin but I would consider writing a much bigger check for the cited OP coin.

    mark

    That's what makes the world go around and life exciting. I don't play in your league. My fun comes from being asked to grade coins based on their ACTUAL condition of preservation from when they were minted. I do this "technically" with no regard to a coin's value (I usually have no clue), and its rarity (sometimes I have a clue). After I get through, our experienced Commercial graders assign a "true" market grade as good as anyone's. That said, I think they would agree MS-63's are appropriate for both coins.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @Justacommeman said:

    @Insider2 said:
    @Zoins said: "Now that this coin is out, how much will it affect the Bass-Pogue coin's price now that it's no longer the finest known?"

    First my apologies to Mama as my mouth keeps working overtime...

    IMHO, in spite of their grades, the two posted coins are VERY FAR APART in their condition of preservation and eye appeal. The Bass/Pogue coin is STILL the finest known - just look at the two. NO CONTEST at all!

    Wow. I literally could not disagree more. I wouldn’t write a check for 200k for the Pogue coin but I would consider writing a much bigger check for the cited OP coin.

    mark

    That's what makes the world go around and life exciting. I don't play in your league. My fun comes from being asked to grade coins based on their ACTUAL condition of preservation from when they were minted. I do this "technically" with no regard to a coin's value (I usually have no clue), and its rarity (sometimes I have a clue). After I get through, our experienced Commercial graders assign a "true" market grade as good as anyone's. That said, I think they would agree MS-63's are appropriate for both coins.

    Fair enough. Different stokes for different folks.

    I based my comments on a few things

    1) I’ve seen the Pogue coin. My eyes

    2) I love the look of the OP coin so much better. My eyes.

    3) there are 3 gold guys that I would pay dearly for an opinion on gold. Doug Winter and John Albanese are two of them. Both of them have rendered an opinion on this coin. One with his checkbook and his expertise.

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:
    My oh my. I just checked my emails. Dayum. Momma said knock you out

    m

    This is a much better image of that coin. It looks MS. Its luster and color pop out and it has more eye appeal than the image of the Bass/Pogue specimen. I wonder what the other would look like in another image.

  • Desert MoonDesert Moon Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:

    3) there are 3 gold guys that I would pay dearly for an opinion on gold. Doug Winter and John Albanese are two of them. Both of them have rendered an opinion on this coin. One with his checkbook and his expertise.

    And the 3rd?

    My online coin store - https://desertmoonnm.com/
  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I always want to see the closeup AND the slab photo.

  • SethChandlerSethChandler Posts: 1,720 ✭✭✭✭

    Yea, I called Doug today to say "holy crap" over the phone. One of the coolest coins Ive seen in a while.

    Collecting since 1976.
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Deep coloration.... deeeeep. Amazing coin. The Pogue coin is super nice, but the 63+ coin is off the charts.

    'dude

    Got Crust....y gold?
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sweeeet !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow!! What a way to start the AM!

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would love to see it in person - I don't think the picture does it justice.

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 750 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The image in the slab looks much nicer. Luster and color show much better. Sounds like an extremely important coin for serious Charlotte collectors.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lakesammman said:
    Would love to see it in person - I don't think the picture does it justice.

    This. Perhaps DW will have it at FUN. If you buy it first, bring it by so I can take a look. :wink:

  • RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,119 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This new to market coin has been in the same private hands since it was acquired at the Stack's auction in April 1978, and was graded at the 2019 ANA. The slab picture of it is accurate. It has fantastic eye appeal, deep toning, luster, is semi-prooflike, and an early strike. It also has its share of marks and hairlines. Balanced out, I think the grade is fair.

    The 1838-C half eagle has two die marriages, with the same obverse used with two different reverses. This coin is an HM-1, where the reverse shows an aggressively lapped die, thus a lack of detail. It is actually well struck. The Bass coin is a first strike of the other die marriage, HM-2, is better struck, has less marks, and also has a perfect reverse. This reverse die of the HM-2 shattered in two early on, as there are only 3 known 1838-Cs with a perfect reverse. The TrueView of the Bass coin is not very flattering. It has more eye appeal than shown, but is not on the same page as the other coin.

    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a sweet example! :love:

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,407 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I really like you coin too @BillJones

  • Desert MoonDesert Moon Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU55 Bill?

    Best, SH

    My online coin store - https://desertmoonnm.com/
  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is my more pedestrian example.

    Pedestrian. lol

    Many happy BST transactions
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Terrific coins and much can be said and appreciated with respect to the same date at different states of preservation.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,841 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @spacehayduke said:
    AU55 Bill?

    Best, SH

    Yes, accurately NGC graded.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just to set the record straight, I was the consignor to the Superior sale in 1989, where it did not sell. I had purchased it privately sometime not too long before. And here's an interesting thought: Back then, that 38-C was worth about the same as a roll of common MS-65 Saints.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,119 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    Just to set the record straight, I was the consignor to the Superior sale in 1989, where it did not sell. I had purchased it privately sometime not too long before. And here's an interesting thought: Back then, that 38-C was worth about the same as a roll of common MS-65 Saints.

    Superior recorded it as a sale in October 1989: Lot 4378, where it realized $48,400. So you bought it back?

    Were you the consignor at the next auction sale, Akers/Rarcoa, August 1991: Lot 987 realized $38,500, or had you sold it beforehand?

    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ronyahski said:

    @MrEureka said:
    Just to set the record straight, I was the consignor to the Superior sale in 1989, where it did not sell. I had purchased it privately sometime not too long before. And here's an interesting thought: Back then, that 38-C was worth about the same as a roll of common MS-65 Saints.

    Superior recorded it as a sale in October 1989: Lot 4378, where it realized $48,400. So you bought it back?

    Were you the consignor at the next auction sale, Akers/Rarcoa, August 1991: Lot 987 realized $38,500, or had you sold it beforehand?

    I bought it back in 1989. I don’t recall where I eventually sold it. I do, however, recall how few people cared about such coins at the time. Commems, generic gold and generic type was where the action was. True rarities, not so much.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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