Don't know what everyone else thinks...but excluding the random outlier that might have been an eBay-specific listing goof (like that $970 BIN yesterday)...these prices seem to be pretty firm on the upper end...at least for now.
@RichR said:
Don't know what everyone else thinks...but excluding the random outlier that might have been an eBay-specific listing goof (like that $970 BIN yesterday)...these prices seem to be pretty firm on the upper end...at least for now.
I disagree. There's a lot of sales going through in the 11's now. That wasn't happening before. Especially auctions aren't getting into the 12's. There's also a drop in sales per hour.
Sold all mine (sealed and unsealed) today on an educated guess that enough time has gone by to have reached the peak. The interim peak anyway. No idea what these will trade for in a year.
time will tell. the 95w's never dipped in value because people moved on to the next greatest mint issued coin and these have comparable production numbers if not slightly lower. I understand that the percentages/volume of proof 70's will be higher this time around but it's the limited edition factor that will buoy this coin's value through the years imho. I have seen only two $1100 offerings this morning with the balance offered at $1500 and up. I'm still waiting for PCGS to get my order graded. I'm hoping for the home run but no matter what it will still be a hit!
Serious question: Is the lowball 30,000 mintage driving the price primarily...or is the imminent design change also moving the needle significantly? For all intents and purposes, this series ends now with a relatively pricey "rarity"...although I use that term a bit loosely.
For what it's worth...as the price has declined slightly...I'm noticing that the number of bidders for those slightly lower cost coins is now spiking to 40+ per coin...so I take that as definite demand.
@RichR said:
Serious question: Is the lowball 30,000 mintage driving the price primarily...or is the imminent design change also moving the needle significantly? For all intents and purposes, this series ends now with a relatively pricey "rarity"...although I use that term a bit loosely.
Both. With the Grief that the Mint has received with this offering, they will Not do this again next year. With the 30k mintage you will be guaranteed the lowest mintage for the most popular collected modern coin since 1986. This will be a Type 1 American Silver Eagle low mintage. We will see what happens to the mintage for the Type 2 American Silver Eagle...
I too was one of those that bought from a presale off of ebay for $500 only for the seller to say the mint canceled his order. On the day of release the seller informed me he was able to order 3 coins. Funny thing is that I know ebay auctions are a binding contract and I can hold him accountable for the item.
Here is his cancellation screen shot and I'm just trying to verify if his coin was actually canceled?
1) did anyone else get a cancellation AND see this type of screen in their US mint account?
2) looking to see if this image is floating around on the internet and able to line up the scratched out black out section as I'm just trying to verify it was the sellers account.
I find it odd that the word "canceled" only has one "L" but I guess it's a legit way of spelling the word. As always thanks - it's been a fun release.
@ccwNJ said:
Great forum and discussion - I've learned a lot.
I too was one of those that bought from a presale off of ebay for $500 only for the seller to say the mint canceled his order. On the day of release the seller informed me he was able to order 3 coins. Funny thing is that I know ebay auctions are a binding contract and I can hold him accountable for the item.
Here is his cancellation screen shot and I'm just trying to verify if his coin was actually canceled?
1) did anyone else get a cancellation AND see this type of screen in their US mint account?
2) looking to see if this image is floating around on the internet and able to line up the scratched out black out section as I'm just trying to verify it was the sellers account.
I find it odd that the word "canceled" only has one "L" but I guess it's a legit way of spelling the word. As always thanks - it's been a fun release.
First welcome to the forum.
Did you file a complaint with EBay? That would be my first move. Let us know how it turns out and sorry you had to go through this.
@ccwNJ said:
Great forum and discussion - I've learned a lot.
I too was one of those that bought from a presale off of ebay for $500 only for the seller to say the mint canceled his order. On the day of release the seller informed me he was able to order 3 coins. Funny thing is that I know ebay auctions are a binding contract and I can hold him accountable for the item.
Here is his cancellation screen shot and I'm just trying to verify if his coin was actually canceled?
1) did anyone else get a cancellation AND see this type of screen in their US mint account?
2) looking to see if this image is floating around on the internet and able to line up the scratched out black out section as I'm just trying to verify it was the sellers account.
I find it odd that the word "canceled" only has one "L" but I guess it's a legit way of spelling the word. As always thanks - it's been a fun release.
@RichR said:
For what it's worth...as the price has declined slightly...I'm noticing that the number of bidders for those slightly lower cost coins is now spiking to 40+ per coin...so I take that as definite demand.
But is it final demand or is it further speculation based on the $1400 to $1500 price? The auctions seem to end lower, so it could be retail arbitrage more than collector demand.
Thanks Weather11am and interesting. I'm really trying to match this hoping he stole someones image:
I may request him to provide the item number or I do have his name and ship to address however I'm not sure if the mint will tell me if his order was cancelled. I did confirm with ebay that he did not resell any other ERP coins after my purchase and has no other ebay account. I'm willing to bet that I like many others on this board, are just being hosed over on "the mint cancelling." I would also be curious to know if anyone had their order cancelled and without a reason as my ebay seller is saying.
@ccwNJ said:
Thanks Weather11am and interesting. I'm really trying to match this hoping he stole someones image:
I may request him to provide the item number or I do have his name and ship to address however I'm not sure if the mint will tell me if his order was cancelled. I did confirm with ebay that he did not resell any other ERP coins after my purchase and has no other ebay account. I'm willing to bet that I like many others on this board, are just being hosed over on "the mint cancelling." I would also be curious to know if anyone had their order cancelled and without a reason as my ebay seller is saying.
I would just let it go. There's really nothing you can do about it.
@ccwNJ said:
Great forum and discussion - I've learned a lot.
I too was one of those that bought from a presale off of ebay for $500 only for the seller to say the mint canceled his order. On the day of release the seller informed me he was able to order 3 coins. Funny thing is that I know ebay auctions are a binding contract and I can hold him accountable for the item.
Here is his cancellation screen shot and I'm just trying to verify if his coin was actually canceled?
1) did anyone else get a cancellation AND see this type of screen in their US mint account?
2) looking to see if this image is floating around on the internet and able to line up the scratched out black out section as I'm just trying to verify it was the sellers account.
I find it odd that the word "canceled" only has one "L" but I guess it's a legit way of spelling the word. As always thanks - it's been a fun release.
This is a photoshop. When the Mint cancels an Oder in the amount column you have $0.00
Theoretically, this is a breach of contract law and you could file a small claims suit (photoshopping the order history also helps your case).
But, the time/travel required probably far exceeds the ~$1k you "lost" from the coin appreciating in value. I'm willing to bet 80%+ of all preorders were cancelled. Most people become assholes when money is involved.
@Archemia said:
Most people become a#sho#es when money is involved.
You meant to say it this way right? Don’t worry I will school you. We don’t want to offend the youngnz who frequent the board. Their innocent and sweet minds must be preserved.
@ccwNJ said:
Great forum and discussion - I've learned a lot.
I too was one of those that bought from a presale off of ebay for $500 only for the seller to say the mint canceled his order. On the day of release the seller informed me he was able to order 3 coins. Funny thing is that I know ebay auctions are a binding contract and I can hold him accountable for the item.
Here is his cancellation screen shot and I'm just trying to verify if his coin was actually canceled?
1) did anyone else get a cancellation AND see this type of screen in their US mint account?
2) looking to see if this image is floating around on the internet and able to line up the scratched out black out section as I'm just trying to verify it was the sellers account.
I find it odd that the word "canceled" only has one "L" but I guess it's a legit way of spelling the word. As always thanks - it's been a fun release.
Welcome aboard ccwNJ
If I 'm not mistaken, canceled or cancelled are both correctly spelled. Whether the Mint uses 1 consistently is another matter.
FYI, we also had a thread in regard to canceled orders:
They added 25 FDI 69's at $2045 on Thursday and they have gone nowhere since. I think $900 for FDI is out there since they ALL were FDI. This price will drop.....
To quote myself re: MCM's "out there" price for FDI 69's....all 25 are GONE at $2045...and Pinehurst bumped up a hundred to $1299 (CC)
There is a saying,
A fool and his money are soon parted. Pretty soon those with these very large inventories will not find the buyers with money to spare, but it may take a while longer than I first thought.
I know this is a bit uncharted territory but... Do you all think there will ever be any premium for low COA numbered coins. Not talking about the 100 golden ticket signed ones but say numbers 101 through 2000 out of 30,000
Not much precedent to go on but would image there may be some
The COA doesn't have any link to the coin aside from the two pieces happening to have been put together in the same box. I wouldn't pay extra for something like that myself, but there's no telling what others might think.
@vteasy said:
I know this is a bit uncharted territory but... Do you all think there will ever be any premium for low COA numbered coins. Not talking about the 100 golden ticket signed ones but say numbers 101 through 2000 out of 30,000
Not much precedent to go on but would image there may be some
If the number had any correspondence to the die state it might be valuable information, but it doesn't.
Now the first 100 - that's a completely different story. Their importance to the coin and coin collecting should easily add $30 - $40 to their value!
I actually don't. Just trolling. I wonder what premium that would bring, though. I have seen the question posted a few times, and wonder what the veteran collectors think.
@occy said:
I actually don't. Just trolling. I wonder what premium that would bring, though. I have seen the question posted a few times, and wonder what the veteran collectors think
Well isn’t that cute! It would bring at least $5,000 as that is the offer I saw.
@Archemia said:
Theoretically, this is a breach of contract law and you could file a small claims suit (photoshopping the order history also helps your case).
But, the time/travel required probably far exceeds the ~$1k you "lost" from the coin appreciating in value. I'm willing to bet 80%+ of all preorders were cancelled. Most people become assholes when money is involved.
Actually, I don't know that he could claim to have lost anything. It is a breach of contract, but I'm not sure what you could claim for damages.> @vteasy said:
I know this is a bit uncharted territory but... Do you all think there will ever be any premium for low COA numbered coins. Not talking about the 100 golden ticket signed ones but say numbers 101 through 2000 out of 30,000
Not much precedent to go on but would image there may be some
The Canadian Mint has been doing this for years. It is not uncharted territory. I'm not aware of any premium for COA number.
So, PCGS has multi coin holders, right? Tell me how cool this set would be.... Find the number 1 coin and the number 30,000 coin, and slab them together. That would be a heck of a set!
@jwitten said:
So, PCGS has multi coin holders, right? Tell me how cool this set would be.... Find the number 1 coin and the number 30,000 coin, and slab them together. That would be a heck of a set!
In the current market, it would only cost you about $100,000 to do it.
@jwitten said:
So, PCGS has multi coin holders, right? Tell me how cool this set would be.... Find the number 1 coin and the number 30,000 coin, and slab them together. That would be a heck of a set!
In the current market, it would only cost you about $100,000 to do it.
Might be more. If random 1-100 numbers are selling for $11,000+, I would imagine number one will go sky high. I bet number 30,000 hits 10k as well.
@jwitten said:
So, PCGS has multi coin holders, right? Tell me how cool this set would be.... Find the number 1 coin and the number 30,000 coin, and slab them together. That would be a heck of a set!
In the current market, it would only cost you about $100,000 to do it.
Might be more. If random 1-100 numbers are selling for $11,000+, I would imagine number one will go sky high. I bet number 30,000 hits 10k as well.
I can't imagine anyone going over $100k for number 1. I mean, it's Ryder's autograph not George Washingtons's.
In six months or so, if a couple dozen of the signed COAs have not yet been revealed, will those of us with still- sealed boxes be even more richly rewarded?
I think it will be worth it to wait and see.
That used to be done in hopes of an error being discovered on a just released Mint issue.
Ryder has invented a new rationale for doing it.
@rip_f said:
In six months or so, if a couple dozen of the signed COAs have not yet been revealed, will those of us with still- sealed boxes be even more richly rewarded?
I think it will be worth it to wait and see.
That used to be done in hopes of an error being discovered on a just released Mint issue.
Ryder has invented a new rationale for doing it.
How will you know? A lot of coins are in private hands and there's little reason for such a person, if they are keeping it, to advertise that they found it.
@rip_f said:
In six months or so, if a couple dozen of the signed COAs have not yet been revealed, will those of us with still- sealed boxes be even more richly rewarded?
I think it will be worth it to wait and see.
That used to be done in hopes of an error being discovered on a just released Mint issue.
Ryder has invented a new rationale for doing it.
How will you know? A lot of coins are in private hands and there's little reason for such a person, if they are keeping it, to advertise that they found it.
Your odds are now and will forever be 1 in 300.
You're probably right. But what an interesting group of twists and angles this COA gimmick has presented.
I hope you're also right about this being a once in a decade scenario.
I worry a bit for the hobby, the way this coin was issued. Reading some of these threads - it's attracted some ethically challenged non-collectors.
@blu62vette said:
Tonights complete ebay sales seem very very strong. Lots of 1400, some 1500 and some close to 1700, even for an open one.
Oddly, 25 of the 27 coins I sold on eBay were to dealers. I didn't sell a single coin to a collector once the price crossed $1100. Make of that what you will
Comments
Mike’s CSN has them for $2999.95.
Don't know what everyone else thinks...but excluding the random outlier that might have been an eBay-specific listing goof (like that $970 BIN yesterday)...these prices seem to be pretty firm on the upper end...at least for now.
I disagree. There's a lot of sales going through in the 11's now. That wasn't happening before. Especially auctions aren't getting into the 12's. There's also a drop in sales per hour.
It's looking like a near term peak to me.
For an initial investment of $65...I consider prices from $1,100-$1,200 as being "pretty firm"...
It's still way higher than I thought they'd reach...for either slabbed or raw.
Sold all mine (sealed and unsealed) today on an educated guess that enough time has gone by to have reached the peak. The interim peak anyway. No idea what these will trade for in a year.
I think of "firm" as meaning "stable" or "unchanging".
time will tell. the 95w's never dipped in value because people moved on to the next greatest mint issued coin and these have comparable production numbers if not slightly lower. I understand that the percentages/volume of proof 70's will be higher this time around but it's the limited edition factor that will buoy this coin's value through the years imho. I have seen only two $1100 offerings this morning with the balance offered at $1500 and up. I'm still waiting for PCGS to get my order graded. I'm hoping for the home run but no matter what it will still be a hit!
well I know if I get one of the signed special golden goose tickets its going to the highest bidder! I got bills to pay!
Serious question: Is the lowball 30,000 mintage driving the price primarily...or is the imminent design change also moving the needle significantly? For all intents and purposes, this series ends now with a relatively pricey "rarity"...although I use that term a bit loosely.
For what it's worth...as the price has declined slightly...I'm noticing that the number of bidders for those slightly lower cost coins is now spiking to 40+ per coin...so I take that as definite demand.
Both. With the Grief that the Mint has received with this offering, they will Not do this again next year. With the 30k mintage you will be guaranteed the lowest mintage for the most popular collected modern coin since 1986. This will be a Type 1 American Silver Eagle low mintage. We will see what happens to the mintage for the Type 2 American Silver Eagle...
Great forum and discussion - I've learned a lot.
I too was one of those that bought from a presale off of ebay for $500 only for the seller to say the mint canceled his order. On the day of release the seller informed me he was able to order 3 coins. Funny thing is that I know ebay auctions are a binding contract and I can hold him accountable for the item.
Here is his cancellation screen shot and I'm just trying to verify if his coin was actually canceled?
1) did anyone else get a cancellation AND see this type of screen in their US mint account?
2) looking to see if this image is floating around on the internet and able to line up the scratched out black out section as I'm just trying to verify it was the sellers account.
I find it odd that the word "canceled" only has one "L" but I guess it's a legit way of spelling the word. As always thanks - it's been a fun release.
First welcome to the forum.
Did you file a complaint with EBay? That would be my first move. Let us know how it turns out and sorry you had to go through this.
Welcome to the forum @ccwNJ.
The provided pic is similar to a cancelled item I had with the Mint.
It would be impossible to identify if it was a cancelled ERP or some other item without having access to that account.
But is it final demand or is it further speculation based on the $1400 to $1500 price? The auctions seem to end lower, so it could be retail arbitrage more than collector demand.
I checked my mint account order history. The last order I cancelled was from 2016 and it had two L’s.
Thanks Weather11am and interesting. I'm really trying to match this hoping he stole someones image:
I may request him to provide the item number or I do have his name and ship to address however I'm not sure if the mint will tell me if his order was cancelled. I did confirm with ebay that he did not resell any other ERP coins after my purchase and has no other ebay account. I'm willing to bet that I like many others on this board, are just being hosed over on "the mint cancelling." I would also be curious to know if anyone had their order cancelled and without a reason as my ebay seller is saying.
I would just let it go. There's really nothing you can do about it.
This is a photoshop. When the Mint cancels an Oder in the amount column you have $0.00
As in:
USM0xxxxxxx $0.00 11/14/2019 CANCELLED
Theoretically, this is a breach of contract law and you could file a small claims suit (photoshopping the order history also helps your case).
But, the time/travel required probably far exceeds the ~$1k you "lost" from the coin appreciating in value. I'm willing to bet 80%+ of all preorders were cancelled. Most people become assholes when money is involved.
You meant to say it this way right? Don’t worry I will school you. We don’t want to offend the youngnz who frequent the board. Their innocent and sweet minds must be preserved.
Welcome aboard ccwNJ
If I 'm not mistaken, canceled or cancelled are both correctly spelled. Whether the Mint uses 1 consistently is another matter.
FYI, we also had a thread in regard to canceled orders:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1028279/bin-order-cancellation-when-did-this-become-a-normal-thing/p1
To quote myself re: MCM's "out there" price for FDI 69's....all 25 are GONE at $2045...and Pinehurst bumped up a hundred to $1299 (CC)
...and I took a peek at Pinehurst inventory. They have 572 69's ( $1261-$1368) and 104 70's available $2713-$4364)
There is a saying,
A fool and his money are soon parted. Pretty soon those with these very large inventories will not find the buyers with money to spare, but it may take a while longer than I first thought.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Wonder if their working for Meisiak? You know they got a few of the signed ones!
I know this is a bit uncharted territory but... Do you all think there will ever be any premium for low COA numbered coins. Not talking about the 100 golden ticket signed ones but say numbers 101 through 2000 out of 30,000
Not much precedent to go on but would image there may be some
I doubt it. maybe #30,000 as the final coin minted, but I've seen lower numbers not pull any premium or push any bidding war.
The COA doesn't have any link to the coin aside from the two pieces happening to have been put together in the same box. I wouldn't pay extra for something like that myself, but there's no telling what others might think.
If the number had any correspondence to the die state it might be valuable information, but it doesn't.
Now the first 100 - that's a completely different story. Their importance to the coin and coin collecting should easily add $30 - $40 to their value!
I have COA number 30,000
I have COA number 30,000
yeah? show us a pic .. how lucky!
So what are you going to do? I know what I would do.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I saw a pretty large offer for COA 30000, let me see if I can find it.
I actually don't. Just trolling. I wonder what premium that would bring, though. I have seen the question posted a few times, and wonder what the veteran collectors think.
Well isn’t that cute! It would bring at least $5,000 as that is the offer I saw.
Actually, I don't know that he could claim to have lost anything. It is a breach of contract, but I'm not sure what you could claim for damages.> @vteasy said:
The Canadian Mint has been doing this for years. It is not uncharted territory. I'm not aware of any premium for COA number.
So, PCGS has multi coin holders, right? Tell me how cool this set would be.... Find the number 1 coin and the number 30,000 coin, and slab them together. That would be a heck of a set!
In the current market, it would only cost you about $100,000 to do it.
Might be more. If random 1-100 numbers are selling for $11,000+, I would imagine number one will go sky high. I bet number 30,000 hits 10k as well.
I can't imagine anyone going over $100k for number 1. I mean, it's Ryder's autograph not George Washingtons's.
In six months or so, if a couple dozen of the signed COAs have not yet been revealed, will those of us with still- sealed boxes be even more richly rewarded?
I think it will be worth it to wait and see.
That used to be done in hopes of an error being discovered on a just released Mint issue.
Ryder has invented a new rationale for doing it.
How will you know? A lot of coins are in private hands and there's little reason for such a person, if they are keeping it, to advertise that they found it.
Your odds are now and will forever be 1 in 300.
You're probably right. But what an interesting group of twists and angles this COA gimmick has presented.
I hope you're also right about this being a once in a decade scenario.
I worry a bit for the hobby, the way this coin was issued. Reading some of these threads - it's attracted some ethically challenged non-collectors.
Tonights complete ebay sales seem very very strong. Lots of 1400, some 1500 and some close to 1700, even for an open one.
Oddly, 25 of the 27 coins I sold on eBay were to dealers. I didn't sell a single coin to a collector once the price crossed $1100. Make of that what you will
Where’s the one sold for 10k+? Low SN and signed COA with FS.
Bid is still going till tonight.
Up to $12,501.00
All the works done (slabbed, FS, 70) with this one. The signed low # COA is a plus. Now to see what the market really wants to pay.