Technically factoring in the tax should have always been on your mind when bidding.
You were responsible for the tax on all internet purchases of items you would normally have to pay tax on if you were to purchase in state. It’s called use tax and there is a place for you to declare the value of all internet purchases you made so that you you can pay the state imposed sales tax. It’s on your Ca 540 income tax return.
Just because eBay wasn’t collecting it or sellers didn’t collect it before didn’t mean you didn’t owe it before. States got tired of people not reporting the tax owed on internet purchases so they sued and won.
These arguments remind me of the PayPal 1099 debate. People seem to think that if the don’t get that 1099 they don’t have to report the income. Pretty sure the IRS would disagree.
@derryb said:
It's in the common sense policy since ebay requires a seller to provide proof of delivery in a "item not received" claim filed by a buyer. Without proof of delivery ebay will always side with the buyer. Therefore ebay considers item to be in buyer's hands until proof it was delivered.
That's all well and good but whether or not something has been delivered, and what happens when that something is or is not received, has nothing to do with my original comment. Here it is, again:
"Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him."
I don't know why people are reading more into this than what is written.
@derryb said:
It's in the common sense policy since ebay requires a seller to provide proof of delivery in a "item not received" claim filed by a buyer. Without proof of delivery ebay will always side with the buyer. Therefore ebay considers item to be in buyer's hands until proof it was delivered.
That's all well and good but whether or not something has been delivered, and what happens when that something is or is not received, has nothing to do with my original comment. Here it is, again:
"Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him."
I don't know why people are reading more into this than what is written.
Because it is foolish nonsense. For that matter, the payment you accept doesn't belong to you until the (correct) item has been received by the buyer. That's why eBay can force you to disgorge your payment if the item is never received or it is SNAD. Problems happen so rarely that it is easier for eBay to allow you to use the receipts before they are really yours.
@amwldcoin said:
Hmmm...We calculate Property taxes in Mils here...Not Full percentage points! I'm in the highest...at least last time I checked county and I believe our property taxes are around 31 Mils!
@CoinPhysicist said:
In my eyes as a buyer, the problem right now with eBay and sales tax is not that it's being collected, it's that I don't know when it is going to be collected until I've committed.
When I bid on a coin at an auction or through an accepted best offer, I have no way to know until after the auction if I win or if the offer is accepted if I am going to have eBay add sales tax to my winning bid. I find this very frustrating because I cannot plan accordingly with my bids. At least with buy it nows I can see before I commit to buying if sales tax is going to be collected. On the auction wins and best offers, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. Even for sellers in my state, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. It's really frustrating to not know before I am bound to purchase.
10.25% makes a huge difference.
There should be no mystery here. The tax is based on YOUR location and YOUR state's laws. So, if there are no exemptions, you are always paying tax. If there is a $1000 exemption, every time you are below $1000 it will be taxed.
That isn't how it's been applied though. It's not consistent when you are buying from non company sellers on eBay. I understand that companies like APMEX are collecting it correctly for my state - because I've checked. I also understand that it's applied based on my state and my state's laws - California because I live here.
I'm saying that it's being applied inconsistently for many sellers (oftentimes small companies and individuals, not huge companies like APMEX) and as recently as last week that sometimes it gets collected when it should, sometimes it gets collected when it shouldn't, and sometimes it doesn't get collected when it should. There is no consistency. When you purchase with buy it now, it's fine because before you commit you can see the total and if eBay added sales tax to it. But when you bid at auction or submit a best offer, you don't know if eBay is going to collect sales tax on top of the winning bid/offer until you have committed to buy the item either by winning the auction or having your best offer accepted. So because of this, you don't know if you are going to get it collected... For me it adds 10.25% of uncertainty and potential extra costs to every bid.
That doesn't make any sense to me. They do it by category and state, no seller should be exempt.
May not make any sense but I've seen it. The inconsistency in how it's applied is what kills me.
@amwldcoin: Property taxes are actually pretty low in California thanks to Prop 13 from the 1970s. Section 1a of Prop 13 from wikipedia: "Section 1. (a) The maximum amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed one percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties. " I believe they are also capped at how much they can increase in a year. There is a group of people that want to get rid of prop 13, but I'm not sure how much traction they really have. Income tax is from 1 to 12.3%.
This is like musical chairs with 100 players and six chairs...and the record skips.
Mostly because people have not read the 1000 explanations that ebay and others have provided. It really is veri simple.
No it isn't simple. It is a nightmare. Internet was born with the concept of zero enforced taxation (though states still required self reporting). A national sales tax of 3 or 4% would have been wretched but more palatable this difficult to understand maze of taxation.
This is like musical chairs with 100 players and six chairs...and the record skips.
Mostly because people have not read the 1000 explanations that ebay and others have provided. It really is veri simple.
No it isn't simple. It is a nightmare. Internet was born with the concept of zero enforced taxation (though states still required self reporting). A national sales tax of 3 or 4% would have been wretched but more palatable this difficult to understand maze of taxation.
A mess really.
What the did IS SIMPLE to understand. That's not the same as whether we like it or there weren't a different approach. I have argued for a national VAT for simplification. But the idea that they charge you sales tax at your LOCAL RATE is pretty simple to understand.
In Texas, we have Sales Tax Holidays. Usually around the start of school, and stacks of stuff related to school (and a lot of stuff not related to school) does not have sales tax charged. People FLOOD the stores to make purchases, to save the 6.25%, stores have sales, and loss leaders.
Maybe ebay, instead of ebay bucks sometime, have a SAVE THE TAX sales days, where ebay eats the sales tax, or even leverages with the states to take a reduced % amount (but higher volume) and see what the impact is on sales.
If sales jump 70% on sales tax free days, maybe it will be enough to get people to push for more often state by state sales tax days.
It does not impact me on coins, as Texas does not have a sales tax, so this discussion, about coins, is moot.
@amwldcoin said:
Hmmm...We calculate Property taxes in Mils here...Not Full percentage points! I'm in the highest...at least last time I checked county and I believe our property taxes are around 31 Mils!
@CoinPhysicist said:
In my eyes as a buyer, the problem right now with eBay and sales tax is not that it's being collected, it's that I don't know when it is going to be collected until I've committed.
When I bid on a coin at an auction or through an accepted best offer, I have no way to know until after the auction if I win or if the offer is accepted if I am going to have eBay add sales tax to my winning bid. I find this very frustrating because I cannot plan accordingly with my bids. At least with buy it nows I can see before I commit to buying if sales tax is going to be collected. On the auction wins and best offers, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. Even for sellers in my state, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. It's really frustrating to not know before I am bound to purchase.
10.25% makes a huge difference.
There should be no mystery here. The tax is based on YOUR location and YOUR state's laws. So, if there are no exemptions, you are always paying tax. If there is a $1000 exemption, every time you are below $1000 it will be taxed.
That isn't how it's been applied though. It's not consistent when you are buying from non company sellers on eBay. I understand that companies like APMEX are collecting it correctly for my state - because I've checked. I also understand that it's applied based on my state and my state's laws - California because I live here.
I'm saying that it's being applied inconsistently for many sellers (oftentimes small companies and individuals, not huge companies like APMEX) and as recently as last week that sometimes it gets collected when it should, sometimes it gets collected when it shouldn't, and sometimes it doesn't get collected when it should. There is no consistency. When you purchase with buy it now, it's fine because before you commit you can see the total and if eBay added sales tax to it. But when you bid at auction or submit a best offer, you don't know if eBay is going to collect sales tax on top of the winning bid/offer until you have committed to buy the item either by winning the auction or having your best offer accepted. So because of this, you don't know if you are going to get it collected... For me it adds 10.25% of uncertainty and potential extra costs to every bid.
That doesn't make any sense to me. They do it by category and state, no seller should be exempt.
May not make any sense but I've seen it. The inconsistency in how it's applied is what kills me.
@amwldcoin: Property taxes are actually pretty low in California thanks to Prop 13 from the 1970s. Section 1a of Prop 13 from wikipedia: "Section 1. (a) The maximum amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed one percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties. " I believe they are also capped at how much they can increase in a year. There is a group of people that want to get rid of prop 13, but I'm not sure how much traction they really have. Income tax is from 1 to 12.3%.
Was recently referred to my local taxing authority by ebay for a refund of sales tax on an exempt item that ebay taxed - will be interesting to see if it works.
The tax added by ebay would be more palatable if done correctly!
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
This is like musical chairs with 100 players and six chairs...and the record skips.
Mostly because people have not read the 1000 explanations that ebay and others have provided. It really is veri simple.
No it isn't simple. It is a nightmare. Internet was born with the concept of zero enforced taxation (though states still required self reporting). A national sales tax of 3 or 4% would have been wretched but more palatable this difficult to understand maze of taxation.
A mess really.
What the did IS SIMPLE to understand. That's not the same as whether we like it or there weren't a different approach. I have argued for a national VAT for simplification. But the idea that they charge you sales tax at your LOCAL RATE is pretty simple to understand.
You keep arguing that it is simple to understand yet each thread on the subject goes to 100 plus posts faster than EOC can field dress a 7 pound tuna.
Folks with resale licenses have have difficulty removing the tax imposition and sales have been cancelled as the unsuspecting buyers are unprepared for the add on.
My first sale on the site was a common Peace dollar. I didn't have a scanner so no image and i earned a small profit for my work.
17 years later I have a dashboard more complex than a Boeing 757 and a checklist of hoops to negotiate before i get a ten percent discount. Fixed price sales are frozen until Ebay waves the magic wand of a bucks promotion and even that is not simple as only the good or lucky munchkins receive the offer. For all this I pay $21 or $28 a month.
@Coinstartled said:
Folks with resale licenses have have difficulty removing the tax imposition and sales have been cancelled as the unsuspecting buyers are unprepared for the add on.
Has this happened on eBay? eBay claims to not charge tax for sellers with resale licenses. I looked into getting one but there seems to be a little upfront work involved.
"Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him."
Fixed it for ya: Once I deliver, the item is no longer mine.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
"Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him."
Fixed it for ya: Once I deliver, the item is no longer mine.
In Texas, we have Sales Tax Holidays. Usually around the start of school, and stacks of stuff related to school (and a lot of stuff not related to school) does not have sales tax charged. People FLOOD the stores to make purchases, to save the 6.25%, stores have sales, and loss leaders.
Maybe ebay, instead of ebay bucks sometime, have a SAVE THE TAX sales days, where ebay eats the sales tax, or even leverages with the states to take a reduced % amount (but higher volume) and see what the impact is on sales.
If sales jump 70% on sales tax free days, maybe it will be enough to get people to push for more often state by state sales tax days.
It does not impact me on coins, as Texas does not have a sales tax, so this discussion, about coins, is moot.
This is like musical chairs with 100 players and six chairs...and the record skips.
Mostly because people have not read the 1000 explanations that ebay and others have provided. It really is veri simple.
No it isn't simple. It is a nightmare. Internet was born with the concept of zero enforced taxation (though states still required self reporting). A national sales tax of 3 or 4% would have been wretched but more palatable this difficult to understand maze of taxation.
A mess really.
What the did IS SIMPLE to understand. That's not the same as whether we like it or there weren't a different approach. I have argued for a national VAT for simplification. But the idea that they charge you sales tax at your LOCAL RATE is pretty simple to understand.
You keep arguing that it is simple to understand yet each thread on the subject goes to 100 plus posts faster than EOC can field dress a 7 pound tuna.
Folks with resale licenses have have difficulty removing the tax imposition and sales have been cancelled as the unsuspecting buyers are unprepared for the add on.
My first sale on the site was a common Peace dollar. I didn't have a scanner so no image and i earned a small profit for my work.
17 years later I have a dashboard more complex than a Boeing 757 and a checklist of hoops to negotiate before i get a ten percent discount. Fixed price sales are frozen until Ebay waves the magic wand of a bucks promotion and even that is not simple as only the good or lucky munchkins receive the offer. For all this I pay $21 or $28 a month.
This business model is a sure fail.
The reason we get to 100 posts is because people DON'T READ. eBay has issued numerous posts on this. It has been discusssed ad nauseum on this board and people still seem confused.
@Coinstartled said:
Folks with resale licenses have have difficulty removing the tax imposition and sales have been cancelled as the unsuspecting buyers are unprepared for the add on.
Has this happened on eBay? eBay claims to not charge tax for sellers with resale licenses. I looked into getting one but there seems to be a little upfront work involved.
No, it does not happen. @Coinstartled can't help but...er...exaggerate.
Every dealer I know filed their licenses and have been tax exempt ever since. It takes about a week or so for them to process the paperwork.
The only confusion has been that some people sent them the wrong paperwork although this, again, is less an eBay issue and more a State Tax Bureau issue. There are two different documents that (some) States refer to by almost exactly the same name: one that the State issues to the business and one that businesses issue to other businesses. Both are called "resale certificates". eBay needs the latter one not the former one.
There were some early problems with new states that had coin exemptions not having the coin exemptions in the system, but that is a separate issue.
There is a big difference between something being simple and everyone on the planet being able to read and understand something.
Like everything, there are complex scenarios that can arise or edge cases, but those are uncommon.
PS: eBay has a market cap of about $32B, and in 2018 had net profit of $2.5B on $10.7B of revenue. Things can change quickly, but their failure is certainly not imminent. Just because an individual doesn't like a particular business model doesn't mean that it is failure or everyone else agrees with them. I think Gucci is a dumb company that no one should buy from. But that's the beauty of the free market, everyone is able to make their own decisions and behave accordingly.
In Texas, we have Sales Tax Holidays. Usually around the start of school, and stacks of stuff related to school (and a lot of stuff not related to school) does not have sales tax charged. People FLOOD the stores to make purchases, to save the 6.25%, stores have sales, and loss leaders.
Maybe ebay, instead of ebay bucks sometime, have a SAVE THE TAX sales days, where ebay eats the sales tax, or even leverages with the states to take a reduced % amount (but higher volume) and see what the impact is on sales.
If sales jump 70% on sales tax free days, maybe it will be enough to get people to push for more often state by state sales tax days.
It does not impact me on coins, as Texas does not have a sales tax, so this discussion, about coins, is moot.
This is like musical chairs with 100 players and six chairs...and the record skips.
Mostly because people have not read the 1000 explanations that ebay and others have provided. It really is veri simple.
No it isn't simple. It is a nightmare. Internet was born with the concept of zero enforced taxation (though states still required self reporting). A national sales tax of 3 or 4% would have been wretched but more palatable this difficult to understand maze of taxation.
A mess really.
What the did IS SIMPLE to understand. That's not the same as whether we like it or there weren't a different approach. I have argued for a national VAT for simplification. But the idea that they charge you sales tax at your LOCAL RATE is pretty simple to understand.
You keep arguing that it is simple to understand yet each thread on the subject goes to 100 plus posts faster than EOC can field dress a 7 pound tuna.
Folks with resale licenses have have difficulty removing the tax imposition and sales have been cancelled as the unsuspecting buyers are unprepared for the add on.
My first sale on the site was a common Peace dollar. I didn't have a scanner so no image and i earned a small profit for my work.
17 years later I have a dashboard more complex than a Boeing 757 and a checklist of hoops to negotiate before i get a ten percent discount. Fixed price sales are frozen until Ebay waves the magic wand of a bucks promotion and even that is not simple as only the good or lucky munchkins receive the offer. For all this I pay $21 or $28 a month.
@jt88 said:
They will get used to it since every one has to pay tax.
The State of Utah does not charge sales tax on legal tender coins, currency or bullion, so now ebay costs more than a LCS. No more ebay purchases for me until this is rectified.
Ebay didn't review state tax codes, and there are several states that do not charge sales tax on coins. And ebay is either lazy, or doesn't care. My money is on the second.
"Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him."
Fixed it for ya: Once I deliver, the item is no longer mine.
Unless it gets returned.
This is sort of true - of all goods bought via credit card. It is actually not sufficient to s> @thefinn said:
@jt88 said:
They will get used to it since every one has to pay tax.
The State of Utah does not charge sales tax on legal tender coins, currency or bullion, so now ebay costs more than a LCS. No more ebay purchases for me until this is rectified.
Ebay didn't review state tax codes, and there are several states that do not charge sales tax on coins. And ebay is either lazy, or doesn't care. My money is on the second.
You would be wrong. eBay has to care because they can't legally collect sales tax that is not due.
I posted this State Tax info on the other "State Tax Thread"
FYI ... This may not be 100% accurate.
**State/Local Sales Tax Applies to Bullion…
**
Arkansas: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Hawaii: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to General Excise tax.
Indiana: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Kansas: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Kentucky: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Maine: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Mississippi: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
New Jersey: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
New Mexico: No state tax exists on bullion or numismatic coins, but a gross receipts tax (on sellers) is imposed.
Ohio now charges sales tax on bullion
Tennessee: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Vermont: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Wisconsin: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
District of Columbia: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Bullion Exempt upon Certain Conditions…
California: Monetized bullion and numismatic coins exceeding $1,500 have a bulk sales tax exemption.
Connecticut: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax if sale exceeds $1,000.
Florida: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax if sale exceeds $500.
Maryland: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax if sale exceeds $1,000.
Massachusetts: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax if sale exceeds $1,000.
New York: No sales tax is imposed on precious metal bullion or numismatic coin transactions over $1,000. However, the consideration may not exceed the value of the precious metal content of 140% for silver, 120% for gold and 115% for other precious metals. Also, there is a sales tax on precious metal bullion that has been manufactured, processed, assembled, fabricated or used for an industrial, aesthetic or artistic purposes.
Virginia: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax if sale exceeds $1,000. (No requirement that the precious metals be of the same type.)
Wyoming: Gold and silver used as legal tender are exempt.
Bullion is NOT Taxable (Exempt)…
Alabama: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Arizona: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Colorado: Bullion is exempt. Not all numismatic pieces are exempt. Jewelry and commemoratives are taxable.
Georgia: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax. Proper documentation is needed.
Idaho: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Illinois: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Iowa: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Louisiana: Bullion is exempt.
Michigan: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Minnesota: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Missouri: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Nebraska: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Nevada: Bullion is exempt. It is taxable if the sales price exceeds the face value of numismatic coins by 50 percent.
North Carolina: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
North Dakota: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Oklahoma: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax. Fabricated metals that are processed or manufactured for artistic use or as jewelry are taxable.
Pennsylvania: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Rhode Island: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax. Fabricated precious metal that has been processed or manufactured for one or more specific and customary industrial, professional or artistic uses is not exempt.
South Carolina: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
South Dakota: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Texas: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Utah: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Washington: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
West Virginia does not tax bullion as of March 2019
No State Sales Tax…
Alaska: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Delaware: No State Sales Tax (Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt).
Montana: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
New Hampshire: No State Sales Tax (Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt).
Oregon: No state sales tax, Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
@Kliao said: Why do the government need to tax everything!?! Just spend less then they have more money to play with
Silly question.
Our government does things not in the Constitution like give money to the unfortunate folks who are fortunate to receive it. Someone needs to take care of folks who come here without being able to understand English or take care of themselves. It costs money to print things in several different languages. We cannot let people die of starvation so they need to be subsidized. Today the concept (it has a name ) that a roof over your head, healthcare, and food is a human right has been taught in our schools for decades! Our children have been told that it is the government's responsibility to take care of every need of everyone who is unable to take care of themselves for ANY reason - from cradle to grave.
There are several ways to get the money: Borrow it, print it, or TAX those who have it. We do all three. Unfortunately, in our country, over 40% of the population does not pay ANY Federal Income Tax. That makes it necessary to borrow or print more money to dole out to those who "need" it or have been taught to expect it.
I don't wish to live in a world with an equal playing field. Then there would be no collectors like _______.
@ricko said:
I have laughed many times (and shed tears as well) over the message of this rhyme by 'anonymous'. Cheers, RickO
Tax his land, tax his wage,
Tax his bed in which he lays.
Tax his tractor, tax his mule,
Teach him taxes is the rule
Tax his cow, tax his goat,
Tax his pants, tax his coat.
Tax his ties, tax his shirts,
Tax his work, tax his dirt
Tax his chew, tax his smoke,
Teach him taxes are no joke.
Tax his car, tax his grass,
Tax the roads he must pass
Tax his food, tax his drink,
Tax him if he tries to think.
Tax his sodas, tax his beers,
If he cries, tax his tears
Tax his bills, tax his gas,
Tax his notes, tax his cash.
Tax him good and let him know
That after taxes, he has no dough
If he hollers, tax him more,
Tax him until he's good and sore.
Tax his coffin, tax his grave,
Tax the sod in which he lays
Put these words upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me to my doom!"
And when he's gone, we won't relax,
We'll still be after the inheritance tax
As George Carlin so eloquently stated in his take of the 'American Dream' twenty odd years ago, "...and they will get it all." Carlin was a visionary. RIP, George.
I went on one non-coin website yesterday and the 7% sales tax that I would have been whacked cost them a $500 sale. Would have been a good deal without the ST. eBay buyers aren't the only ones unhappy with this.
@BAJJERFAN said:
I went on one non-coin website yesterday and the 7% sales tax that I would have been whacked cost them a $500 sale. Would have been a good deal without the ST. eBay buyers aren't the only ones unhappy with this.
It's YOUR State that's doing it. I think the proper response would be: "the 7% sales tax costs them $35 in taxes". Then again, a 0% tax rate would also cost them $35 in taxes. So, why would your State care?
@BAJJERFAN said:
I went on one non-coin website yesterday and the 7% sales tax that I would have been whacked cost them a $500 sale. Would have been a good deal without the ST. eBay buyers aren't the only ones unhappy with this.
It's YOUR State that's doing it. I think the proper response would be: "the 7% sales tax costs them $35 in taxes". Then again, a 0% tax rate would also cost them $35 in taxes. So, why would your State care?
I know who is responsible, so therefore I look for deals to beat them out of every cent I can. I suppose by rights I should send them a check for it but screw em.
It cost one OOS place a sale and the other the juice from said sale.
I understand and accept the ST for eBay and don't mind for small sales, but significant sales for not must have items require a little diligence. They may have leveled the playing field somewhat, but they still have a ways to go.
@BAJJERFAN said:
I went on one non-coin website yesterday and the 7% sales tax that I would have been whacked cost them a $500 sale. Would have been a good deal without the ST. eBay buyers aren't the only ones unhappy with this.
It's YOUR State that's doing it. I think the proper response would be: "the 7% sales tax costs them $35 in taxes". Then again, a 0% tax rate would also cost them $35 in taxes. So, why would your State care?
I know who is responsible, so therefore I look for deals to beat them out of every cent I can. I suppose by rights I should send them a check for it but screw em.
It cost one OOS place a sale and the other the juice from said sale.
I understand and accept the ST for eBay and don't mind for small sales, but significant sales for not must have items require a little diligence. They may have leveled the playing field somewhat, but they still have a ways to go.
Well, if they ever manage to fully level the playing field, there will be no way to avoid the tax.
@BAJJERFAN said:
I went on one non-coin website yesterday and the 7% sales tax that I would have been whacked cost them a $500 sale. Would have been a good deal without the ST. eBay buyers aren't the only ones unhappy with this.
It's YOUR State that's doing it. I think the proper response would be: "the 7% sales tax costs them $35 in taxes". Then again, a 0% tax rate would also cost them $35 in taxes. So, why would your State care?
I know who is responsible, so therefore I look for deals to beat them out of every cent I can. I suppose by rights I should send them a check for it but screw em.
It cost one OOS place a sale and the other the juice from said sale.
I understand and accept the ST for eBay and don't mind for small sales, but significant sales for not must have items require a little diligence. They may have leveled the playing field somewhat, but they still have a ways to go.
Well, if they ever manage to fully level the playing field, there will be no way to avoid the tax.
so true other than not buying at all or used for cash. I wonder if I bought the same item from a neighbor if they'd expect me to still pony up the ST. Every time I turn around people/places are raising costs to me. my medicare part D premium is more than doubling with no increase in benefits so I dropped them like a hot potato. My only way to fight back is to not buy at all or take my business elsewhere.
I don't care for the State Tax either, but it's pretty simple for me. I will take into account the 6.25% Massachusetts charges with all my bids on eBay or anywhere else, problem solved. I may lose a few items, but these aren't must have items like food and water.
So many people are complaining there are so few true ebay auctions these days. Perhaps we should track the effects of this on the amount of true ebay auctions and how much the tax changes the results. I stopped doing ebay auctions a long time ago due to lack of visibility, can't imagine what it's like now!
@divecchia said:
I don't care for the State Tax either, but it's pretty simple for me. I will take into account the 6.25% Massachusetts charges with all my bids on eBay or anywhere else, problem solved. I may lose a few items, but these aren't must have items like food and water.
I've recently had two ebay sales cancelled over the sales tax. Fortunately the buyers did not show any anger towards me about it. I kindly cancelled their orders.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
This thread is going to disappear if it goes much further into:
"I have a legal obligation to pay sales tax, but I am seeking ways to defraud the state I live in, and I come to this PCGS site to get information to enable illegal activities, such as cash transactions, etc."
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
It will take time for the old goats to get use to the sales tax.
If they refuse to pay that tax, then they are out of the game, game over for them.
When the game is over for the buyers...what do you suppose happens to the sellers?
Game is not over for the buyers.
Game is over for people who refuse to face up to the reality of today.
And valuations continue the downward spiral. Lower mintage modern $5 Gold commems that commanded prices 5 and 6 times melt are now selling at melt. No coin is a necessity and an added 8% which will be lost on resale is a potent disincentive.
I just bought a couple air filters on Ebay and the tax was $1.06. didn't care.
$120 tariff on a slabbed Saint Gaudin is another matter to the consumer.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
It will take time for the old goats to get use to the sales tax.
When the game is over for the buyers...what do you suppose happens to the sellers?
Game is not over for the buyers.
Game is over for people who refuse to face up to the reality of today.
And valuations continue the downward spiral. Lower mintage modern $5 Gold commems that commanded prices 5 and 6 times melt are now selling at melt. No coin is a necessity and an added 8% which will be lost on resale is a potent disincentive.
I just bought a couple air filters on Ebay and the tax was $1.06. didn't care.
$120 tariff on a slabbed Saint Gaudin is another matter to the consumer.
Not to agree with @coinstartled on an eBay rant but, using your own words: if the game is over for people who refuse to face up to the reality of today, the OLD game is over. Whether or not they like the new game remains to be seen.
Now, to also partly agree with @errorsoncoins, there is no reason why the new reality can't be rooted in something other than the ease of a flip. There are a LOT of things people buy for fun or entertainment that they eventually throw in a garage sale at a fraction of purchase price. Why can't coins be in that category? If people stop thinking of them as investments that they can flip in 12 months, that might shrink the pool of buyers but it doesn't end the coin market.
And I don't remember too many $5 gold commems that sold for 5 times melt?!?!? What am I forgetting?
Any circumstance, be it the sales tax issue,fraud,ripoffs,scams,grading disenchantment etc. that leads to collector disillusionment can not be healthy for the hobby. If the collector base is reduced because of these issues, one can only hope that new blood will take their place. The long term health of the hobby can ill afford more "dropouts", for whatever reason. They do add up.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Any circumstance, be it the sales tax issue,fraud,ripoffs,scams,grading disenchantment etc. that leads to collector disillusionment can not be healthy for the hobby. If the collector base is reduced because of these issues, one can only hope that new blood will take their place. The long term health of the hobby can ill afford more "dropouts", for whatever reason. They do add up.
This is true, but it's also not really coin specific. The entire internet retail landscape has been changed by this ruling. INTENTIONALLY. Whether the States get the intended consequences or unintended consequences remains to be seen.
For example: What happens when Alibaba decides to compete head on with Amazon but from China? Will the Feds levy an import duty? Will they share it with the States? How will the States enforce sales tax collection on a foreign country?
In the collectibles market: How many dealers are actually compliant? I hear people saying they will leave eBay for coin shows. That assumes that the coin show dealers are not sales tax compliant, unless you are moving to one of the 3 or 4 states that has no sales tax. Will the States clamp down on these venues? Do the States consider that to be small potatoes and not worth enforcement?
Personally, I hope the States go hard at coin show and flea market dealers for sales tax compliance. Otherwise, they are unfairly burdening people like me who are compliant.
As a followup to an earlier post, I got a $51 dollar refund from the state yesterday on an ebay purchase where sales tax was improperly applied - - pays to know what's exempt!
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
Had an offer today that I countered. Got a counter offer from buyer with a long explanation about how his state now charges sales tax and how with tax included his offer would net him the price he wanted to pay. I suppose he wanted me to pay his sales tax. I almost gave him a long explanation about how I’m not a charity and his state needs the extra tax to help with the homeless encampments and roads and that it was his civic duty to contribute, but figured I would save myself the headache and just decline.
Comments
@CoinPhysicist
Technically factoring in the tax should have always been on your mind when bidding.
You were responsible for the tax on all internet purchases of items you would normally have to pay tax on if you were to purchase in state. It’s called use tax and there is a place for you to declare the value of all internet purchases you made so that you you can pay the state imposed sales tax. It’s on your Ca 540 income tax return.
Just because eBay wasn’t collecting it or sellers didn’t collect it before didn’t mean you didn’t owe it before. States got tired of people not reporting the tax owed on internet purchases so they sued and won.
These arguments remind me of the PayPal 1099 debate. People seem to think that if the don’t get that 1099 they don’t have to report the income. Pretty sure the IRS would disagree.
My Ebay Store
That's all well and good but whether or not something has been delivered, and what happens when that something is or is not received, has nothing to do with my original comment. Here it is, again:
"Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him."
I don't know why people are reading more into this than what is written.
Because it is foolish nonsense. For that matter, the payment you accept doesn't belong to you until the (correct) item has been received by the buyer. That's why eBay can force you to disgorge your payment if the item is never received or it is SNAD. Problems happen so rarely that it is easier for eBay to allow you to use the receipts before they are really yours.
Please note that 31 mills = 3.1%.
No it isn't simple. It is a nightmare. Internet was born with the concept of zero enforced taxation (though states still required self reporting). A national sales tax of 3 or 4% would have been wretched but more palatable this difficult to understand maze of taxation.
A mess really.
What the did IS SIMPLE to understand. That's not the same as whether we like it or there weren't a different approach. I have argued for a national VAT for simplification. But the idea that they charge you sales tax at your LOCAL RATE is pretty simple to understand.
How about a new promotion.
(Please send me the $100,000 for the great idea.)
In Texas, we have Sales Tax Holidays. Usually around the start of school, and stacks of stuff related to school (and a lot of stuff not related to school) does not have sales tax charged. People FLOOD the stores to make purchases, to save the 6.25%, stores have sales, and loss leaders.
Maybe ebay, instead of ebay bucks sometime, have a SAVE THE TAX sales days, where ebay eats the sales tax, or even leverages with the states to take a reduced % amount (but higher volume) and see what the impact is on sales.
If sales jump 70% on sales tax free days, maybe it will be enough to get people to push for more often state by state sales tax days.
It does not impact me on coins, as Texas does not have a sales tax, so this discussion, about coins, is moot.
Well...my actual tax rate on my place after all the exemptions and % of FMV they tax is .5784 percent this year.
Edit to add when I turn 62 it will drop to less than .2 percent!
Was recently referred to my local taxing authority by ebay for a refund of sales tax on an exempt item that ebay taxed - will be interesting to see if it works.
The tax added by ebay would be more palatable if done correctly!
You keep arguing that it is simple to understand yet each thread on the subject goes to 100 plus posts faster than EOC can field dress a 7 pound tuna.
Folks with resale licenses have have difficulty removing the tax imposition and sales have been cancelled as the unsuspecting buyers are unprepared for the add on.
My first sale on the site was a common Peace dollar. I didn't have a scanner so no image and i earned a small profit for my work.
17 years later I have a dashboard more complex than a Boeing 757 and a checklist of hoops to negotiate before i get a ten percent discount. Fixed price sales are frozen until Ebay waves the magic wand of a bucks promotion and even that is not simple as only the good or lucky munchkins receive the offer. For all this I pay $21 or $28 a month.
This business model is a sure fail.
Has this happened on eBay? eBay claims to not charge tax for sellers with resale licenses. I looked into getting one but there seems to be a little upfront work involved.
Fixed it for ya: Once I deliver, the item is no longer mine.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Unless it gets returned.
The reason we get to 100 posts is because people DON'T READ. eBay has issued numerous posts on this. It has been discusssed ad nauseum on this board and people still seem confused.
No, it does not happen. @Coinstartled can't help but...er...exaggerate.
Every dealer I know filed their licenses and have been tax exempt ever since. It takes about a week or so for them to process the paperwork.
The only confusion has been that some people sent them the wrong paperwork although this, again, is less an eBay issue and more a State Tax Bureau issue. There are two different documents that (some) States refer to by almost exactly the same name: one that the State issues to the business and one that businesses issue to other businesses. Both are called "resale certificates". eBay needs the latter one not the former one.
There were some early problems with new states that had coin exemptions not having the coin exemptions in the system, but that is a separate issue.
There is a big difference between something being simple and everyone on the planet being able to read and understand something.
Like everything, there are complex scenarios that can arise or edge cases, but those are uncommon.
PS: eBay has a market cap of about $32B, and in 2018 had net profit of $2.5B on $10.7B of revenue. Things can change quickly, but their failure is certainly not imminent. Just because an individual doesn't like a particular business model doesn't mean that it is failure or everyone else agrees with them. I think Gucci is a dumb company that no one should buy from. But that's the beauty of the free market, everyone is able to make their own decisions and behave accordingly.
I've been buying gold in a obsessive way for the past 20 years, so I don't need to buy anymore, just glad I have what I have when it was tax free
TTT for the card guys
The State of Utah does not charge sales tax on legal tender coins, currency or bullion, so now ebay costs more than a LCS. No more ebay purchases for me until this is rectified.
Ebay didn't review state tax codes, and there are several states that do not charge sales tax on coins. And ebay is either lazy, or doesn't care. My money is on the second.
This is sort of true - of all goods bought via credit card. It is actually not sufficient to s> @thefinn said:
You would be wrong. eBay has to care because they can't legally collect sales tax that is not due.
I posted this State Tax info on the other "State Tax Thread"
FYI ... This may not be 100% accurate.
**State/Local Sales Tax Applies to Bullion…
**
Arkansas: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Hawaii: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to General Excise tax.
Indiana: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Kansas: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Kentucky: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Maine: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Mississippi: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
New Jersey: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
New Mexico: No state tax exists on bullion or numismatic coins, but a gross receipts tax (on sellers) is imposed.
Ohio now charges sales tax on bullion
Tennessee: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Vermont: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Wisconsin: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
District of Columbia: Bullion and numismatic coins are subject to sales tax.
Bullion Exempt upon Certain Conditions…
California: Monetized bullion and numismatic coins exceeding $1,500 have a bulk sales tax exemption.
Connecticut: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax if sale exceeds $1,000.
Florida: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax if sale exceeds $500.
Maryland: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax if sale exceeds $1,000.
Massachusetts: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax if sale exceeds $1,000.
New York: No sales tax is imposed on precious metal bullion or numismatic coin transactions over $1,000. However, the consideration may not exceed the value of the precious metal content of 140% for silver, 120% for gold and 115% for other precious metals. Also, there is a sales tax on precious metal bullion that has been manufactured, processed, assembled, fabricated or used for an industrial, aesthetic or artistic purposes.
Virginia: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax if sale exceeds $1,000. (No requirement that the precious metals be of the same type.)
Wyoming: Gold and silver used as legal tender are exempt.
Bullion is NOT Taxable (Exempt)…
Alabama: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Arizona: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Colorado: Bullion is exempt. Not all numismatic pieces are exempt. Jewelry and commemoratives are taxable.
Georgia: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax. Proper documentation is needed.
Idaho: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Illinois: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Iowa: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Louisiana: Bullion is exempt.
Michigan: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Minnesota: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Missouri: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Nebraska: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Nevada: Bullion is exempt. It is taxable if the sales price exceeds the face value of numismatic coins by 50 percent.
North Carolina: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
North Dakota: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Oklahoma: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax. Fabricated metals that are processed or manufactured for artistic use or as jewelry are taxable.
Pennsylvania: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Rhode Island: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax. Fabricated precious metal that has been processed or manufactured for one or more specific and customary industrial, professional or artistic uses is not exempt.
South Carolina: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
South Dakota: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Texas: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Utah: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Washington: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
West Virginia does not tax bullion as of March 2019
No State Sales Tax…
Alaska: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
Delaware: No State Sales Tax (Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt).
Montana: Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt from sales tax.
New Hampshire: No State Sales Tax (Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt).
Oregon: No state sales tax, Bullion and numismatic coins are exempt
Silly question.
Our government does things not in the Constitution like give money to the unfortunate folks who are fortunate to receive it. Someone needs to take care of folks who come here without being able to understand English or take care of themselves. It costs money to print things in several different languages. We cannot let people die of starvation so they need to be subsidized. Today the concept (it has a name
) that a roof over your head, healthcare, and food is a human right has been taught in our schools for decades! Our children have been told that it is the government's responsibility to take care of every need of everyone who is unable to take care of themselves for ANY reason - from cradle to grave.
There are several ways to get the money: Borrow it, print it, or TAX those who have it. We do all three. Unfortunately, in our country, over 40% of the population does not pay ANY Federal Income Tax. That makes it necessary to borrow or print more money to dole out to those who "need" it or have been taught to expect it.
I don't wish to live in a world with an equal playing field. Then there would be no collectors like _______.
As George Carlin so eloquently stated in his take of the 'American Dream' twenty odd years ago, "...and they will get it all." Carlin was a visionary. RIP, George.
I went on one non-coin website yesterday and the 7% sales tax that I would have been whacked cost them a $500 sale. Would have been a good deal without the ST. eBay buyers aren't the only ones unhappy with this.
It's YOUR State that's doing it. I think the proper response would be: "the 7% sales tax costs them $35 in taxes". Then again, a 0% tax rate would also cost them $35 in taxes. So, why would your State care?
I know who is responsible, so therefore I look for deals to beat them out of every cent I can. I suppose by rights I should send them a check for it but screw em.
It cost one OOS place a sale and the other the juice from said sale.
I understand and accept the ST for eBay and don't mind for small sales, but significant sales for not must have items require a little diligence. They may have leveled the playing field somewhat, but they still have a ways to go.
Well, if they ever manage to fully level the playing field, there will be no way to avoid the tax.
so true other than not buying at all or used for cash. I wonder if I bought the same item from a neighbor if they'd expect me to still pony up the ST. Every time I turn around people/places are raising costs to me. my medicare part D premium is more than doubling with no increase in benefits so I dropped them like a hot potato. My only way to fight back is to not buy at all or take my business elsewhere.
I don't care for the State Tax either, but it's pretty simple for me. I will take into account the 6.25% Massachusetts charges with all my bids on eBay or anywhere else, problem solved. I may lose a few items, but these aren't must have items like food and water.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
So many people are complaining there are so few true ebay auctions these days. Perhaps we should track the effects of this on the amount of true ebay auctions and how much the tax changes the results. I stopped doing ebay auctions a long time ago due to lack of visibility, can't imagine what it's like now!
I've recently had two ebay sales cancelled over the sales tax. Fortunately the buyers did not show any anger towards me about it. I kindly cancelled their orders.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
This thread is going to disappear if it goes much further into:
"I have a legal obligation to pay sales tax, but I am seeking ways to defraud the state I live in, and I come to this PCGS site to get information to enable illegal activities, such as cash transactions, etc."
It will take time for the old goats to get use to the sales tax.
If they refuse to pay that tax, then they are out of the game, game over for them.
When the game is over for the buyers...what do you suppose happens to the sellers?
Game is not over for the buyers.
Game is over for people who refuse to face up to the reality of today.
And valuations continue the downward spiral. Lower mintage modern $5 Gold commems that commanded prices 5 and 6 times melt are now selling at melt. No coin is a necessity and an added 8% which will be lost on resale is a potent disincentive.
I just bought a couple air filters on Ebay and the tax was $1.06. didn't care.
$120 tariff on a slabbed Saint Gaudin is another matter to the consumer.
Not to agree with @coinstartled on an eBay rant but, using your own words: if the game is over for people who refuse to face up to the reality of today, the OLD game is over. Whether or not they like the new game remains to be seen.
Now, to also partly agree with @errorsoncoins, there is no reason why the new reality can't be rooted in something other than the ease of a flip. There are a LOT of things people buy for fun or entertainment that they eventually throw in a garage sale at a fraction of purchase price. Why can't coins be in that category? If people stop thinking of them as investments that they can flip in 12 months, that might shrink the pool of buyers but it doesn't end the coin market.
And I don't remember too many $5 gold commems that sold for 5 times melt?!?!? What am I forgetting?
Time for "Make Offer"
get a dialogue going and learn new and better things.
Any circumstance, be it the sales tax issue,fraud,ripoffs,scams,grading disenchantment etc. that leads to collector disillusionment can not be healthy for the hobby. If the collector base is reduced because of these issues, one can only hope that new blood will take their place. The long term health of the hobby can ill afford more "dropouts", for whatever reason. They do add up.
This is true, but it's also not really coin specific. The entire internet retail landscape has been changed by this ruling. INTENTIONALLY. Whether the States get the intended consequences or unintended consequences remains to be seen.
For example: What happens when Alibaba decides to compete head on with Amazon but from China? Will the Feds levy an import duty? Will they share it with the States? How will the States enforce sales tax collection on a foreign country?
In the collectibles market: How many dealers are actually compliant? I hear people saying they will leave eBay for coin shows. That assumes that the coin show dealers are not sales tax compliant, unless you are moving to one of the 3 or 4 states that has no sales tax. Will the States clamp down on these venues? Do the States consider that to be small potatoes and not worth enforcement?
Personally, I hope the States go hard at coin show and flea market dealers for sales tax compliance. Otherwise, they are unfairly burdening people like me who are compliant.
The American motto: "To serve and comply."
Baaaaaaaaa
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/22/ebay-is-beating-amazon-this-year-and-charts-suggest-more-upside.html
I'm not sure eBay is going to be out of business in 36 months...
What happens to GC?
shhhh....you'll upset @Coinstartled
As a followup to an earlier post, I got a $51 dollar refund from the state yesterday on an ebay purchase where sales tax was improperly applied - - pays to know what's exempt!
Guess the charts were wrong.
If the goal is comparing E-Bay to Amazon then sometimes waiting 24 hours brings new thoughts.
Had an offer today that I countered. Got a counter offer from buyer with a long explanation about how his state now charges sales tax and how with tax included his offer would net him the price he wanted to pay. I suppose he wanted me to pay his sales tax. I almost gave him a long explanation about how I’m not a charity and his state needs the extra tax to help with the homeless encampments and roads and that it was his civic duty to contribute, but figured I would save myself the headache and just decline.
My Ebay Store