@ElKevvo said:
_Amazon makes money from its cloud services and subscription services that eBay lacks. _
Wow...some else who knows this! Impressed...Everyone chats about how Amazon is destroying retailers (they are) but not too many folks know that the AWS division is the real money maker in the enterprise.
K
Yes. The other thing about Amazon is that they take a VERY LONG view. They are willing to lose money for years while driving out the competition. But I think they are up against it in the retail sector now. Walmart is cheaper than they are for many goods. Walmart also has the infrastructure to hit the next big goal of online retail: same day delivery. With Amazon now on level footing with B&M's due to the tax law changes and all the infrastructure they built, I wouldn't be surprised to see Amazon take a few lumps in the retail segment of its operations.
...and where does that leave the hapless Ebay seller? He has no cloud or same day delivery. All good in the world of competition and free enterprise (short of the government tax advantage extended the large blokes,) his playing filed is longer and steeper than that of the Miami Dolphins.)
That certainly shorts out the Ebay model. it was a pretty good run though.
So far it has not been an issue for me that I know of.
It’s a non controllable for the seller. The buyer will need to decide if he wants to use the venue. What basis is eBay using to charge a seller tax? The sellers state or the buyers state? I am located in Texas where coins and bullion exempt.
@ElKevvo said:
_Amazon makes money from its cloud services and subscription services that eBay lacks. _
Wow...some else who knows this! Impressed...Everyone chats about how Amazon is destroying retailers (they are) but not too many folks know that the AWS division is the real money maker in the enterprise.
K
Yes. The other thing about Amazon is that they take a VERY LONG view. They are willing to lose money for years while driving out the competition. But I think they are up against it in the retail sector now. Walmart is cheaper than they are for many goods. Walmart also has the infrastructure to hit the next big goal of online retail: same day delivery. With Amazon now on level footing with B&M's due to the tax law changes and all the infrastructure they built, I wouldn't be surprised to see Amazon take a few lumps in the retail segment of its operations.
...and where does that leave the hapless Ebay seller? He has no cloud or same day delivery. All good in the world of competition and free enterprise (short of the government tax advantage extended the large blokes,) his playing filed is longer and steeper than that of the Miami Dolphins.)
That certainly shorts out the Ebay model. it was a pretty good run though.
You love trashing eBay, but answer me this Batman: what percentage of eBay revenue comes from "small sellers" and what comes from "large sellers" and what revenue comes from "garage salers" cleaning house.
Even if small sellers are doomed, that doesn't mean eBay is doomed.
You have forgotten ad revenue, which is their kryptonite.
Small seller goes and so do millions of pages of ad dollars. Think selling a Morgan dollar and two dozen ads pop up on the page from touting other dollars.
36 months and they are kaput as a viable commerce site.
@Coinstartled said:
You have forgotten ad revenue, which is their kryptonite.
Small seller goes and so do millions of pages of ad dollars. Think selling a Morgan dollar and two dozen ads pop up on the page from touting other dollars.
36 months and they are kaput as a viable commerce site.
@Coinstartled said:
You have forgotten ad revenue, which is their kryptonite.
Small seller goes and so do millions of pages of ad dollars. Think selling a Morgan dollar and two dozen ads pop up on the page from touting other dollars.
36 months and they are kaput as a viable commerce site.
@Coinstartled said:
You have forgotten ad revenue, which is their kryptonite.
Small seller goes and so do millions of pages of ad dollars. Think selling a Morgan dollar and two dozen ads pop up on the page from touting other dollars.
36 months and they are kaput as a viable commerce site.
LMAO. That's pretty specific. Shall we bet?
I got 10 K to bet on that one.
Is it a bet?
I bet you will not take that bet.
Put your money where your mouth is.
I assume you are talking to Coinstartled not me. LOL
@Coinstartled said:
You have forgotten ad revenue, which is their kryptonite.
Small seller goes and so do millions of pages of ad dollars. Think selling a Morgan dollar and two dozen ads pop up on the page from touting other dollars.
36 months and they are kaput as a viable commerce site.
LMAO. That's pretty specific. Shall we bet?
I got 10 K to bet on that one.
Is it a bet?
I bet you will not take that bet.
Put your money where your mouth is.
I assume you are talking to Coinstartled not me. LOL
Of course.
I like betting on a sure thing against the uninformed. Easy money.
@Coinstartled said:
You have forgotten ad revenue, which is their kryptonite.
Small seller goes and so do millions of pages of ad dollars. Think selling a Morgan dollar and two dozen ads pop up on the page from touting other dollars.
36 months and they are kaput as a viable commerce site.
LMAO. That's pretty specific. Shall we bet?
I got 10 K to bet on that one.
Is it a bet?
I bet you will not take that bet.
Put your money where your mouth is.
I assume you are talking to Coinstartled not me. LOL
Of course.
I like betting on a sure thing against the uninformed. Easy money.
LOL. It does change things. eBay said in July that they think it has dinged gross volume by 1% and other states have been added since. It's not a non-factor, but it's not a death blow. I bet that the vast majority of eBay $ volume is from sellers are large businesses.
so Feebay will collect the taxes and then submit these to the respective Gov.
right??
what happens to the taxes collected by Feebay from the time it is collected to the time it is remitted to the Gov?????
I assume Feebay does get a commission for doing so and has negotiated a remittance schedule like, weekly, monthly, or even daily.
In the meantime, IMP, the $$$$ are working capital??? Millions of it???
@YQQ said:
so Feebay will collect the taxes and then submit these to the respective Gov.
right??
what happens to the taxes collected by Feebay from the time it is collected to the time it is remitted to the Gov?????
I assume Feebay does get a commission for doing so and has negotiated a remittance schedule like, weekly, monthly, or even daily.
In the meantime, IMP, the $$$$ are working capital??? Millions of it???
Jesus, people are really nuts on this issue WHICH IS NOT REALLY AN EBAY ISSUE AT ALL.
ALL businesses - from Walmart to MYSELF collect taxes daily and remit them either monthly (eBay for sure), quarterly or annually. That is what EVERY STORE YOU VISITED this weekend does. You want them to file daily? Maybe hourly?
Yes, eBay gets an interest free loan while it's waiting to file. It also has to pay someone to do the filing and the auditing and guarantee compliance with 30+ taxing jurisdictions.
Gee, I wonder why eBay FOUGHT the Internet Sales tax for more than a decade. They should have embraced the windfall.
@YQQ said:
so Feebay will collect the taxes and then submit these to the respective Gov.
right??
what happens to the taxes collected by Feebay from the time it is collected to the time it is remitted to the Gov?????
I assume Feebay does get a commission for doing so and has negotiated a remittance schedule like, weekly, monthly, or even daily.
In the meantime, IMP, the $$$$ are working capital??? Millions of it???
My State gives the business party collecting the sales tax a small part of the take, exactly for the purpose of helping the business out with the collection and accounting expenses. I presume eBay would also get a similar percentage.
@jmlanzaf said:
I don't think they thought through all the implications.
I would say so. B&Ms don't have to charge sales tax based on the buyer's residence. Why should internet sellers?
Because the B&M transfer of goods (the sale) takes place at the store's location.
This is true, but it also could be viewed as a different standard. The B&M laws define nexus based on where the transfer of goods takes place - at the B&M - regardless of where the seller lives. The internet laws actually establish nexus by a somewhat different standard. The transfer of goods is viewed as taking place at the BUYER'S location, regardless of where the Seller is located.
Now, one could see this as being the same if the physical transfer of goods is viewed as the source of the nexus being established. But what if I buy a phone app or piece of digital content or just a subscription service: the seller might be in NY, the digital content might be stored in a server farm in Washington State, the payment was processed in California, all so the buyer in Illinois gets a digital stream. It's a little harder for me to figure out where ownership actually is transferred in that case.
Here's another fun nexus case: you live in Illinois but buy a tourism app for San Francisco while vacationing. The tourism app comes from a Florida dealer via a California developer, paid for by a bank with corporate headquarters in NY. The current law would apply Illinois tax even though the app is never used in Illinois and you bought it while in San Francisco! LOL
That's why nexus is a mess.
Suppose I live adjacent to a sales-tax free state and get a P.O. Box in that State though my residence is in a taxable State. Did not the "goods transfer" actually take place at the P.O. Box? Yet I'm going to be taxed if I drive it across the border. So nexus isn't really being judged by where the goods transfer takes place but where I live. In that sense, it is a very different definition of nexus.
In my eyes as a buyer, the problem right now with eBay and sales tax is not that it's being collected, it's that I don't know when it is going to be collected until I've committed.
When I bid on a coin at an auction or through an accepted best offer, I have no way to know until after the auction if I win or if the offer is accepted if I am going to have eBay add sales tax to my winning bid. I find this very frustrating because I cannot plan accordingly with my bids. At least with buy it nows I can see before I commit to buying if sales tax is going to be collected. On the auction wins and best offers, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. Even for sellers in my state, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. It's really frustrating to not know before I am bound to purchase.
@jmlanzaf said:
I don't think they thought through all the implications.
I would say so. B&Ms don't have to charge sales tax based on the buyer's residence. Why should internet sellers?
Because the B&M transfer of goods (the sale) takes place at the store's location.
Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him.
@Coinstartled said:
You have forgotten ad revenue, which is their kryptonite.
Small seller goes and so do millions of pages of ad dollars. Think selling a Morgan dollar and two dozen ads pop up on the page from touting other dollars.
36 months and they are kaput as a viable commerce site.
LMAO. That's pretty specific. Shall we bet?
I got 10 K to bet on that one.
Is it a bet?
I bet you will not take that bet.
Put your money where your mouth is.
I assume you are talking to Coinstartled not me. LOL
Of course.
I like betting on a sure thing against the uninformed. Easy money.
I stay away from forum wagers as they are frowned on by the host and one can run into unforeseen problems if the facts regarding the wager are not fully and properly disclosed.
In the example you are proposing, since I mentioned 36 months, if they go bust in 24 months do I lose, what would the window be. What if they go bankrupt, but are operating under the bankruptcy code, who wins. I mean $10,000 is like 3000 pounds of tuna (non sushi grade.)
Fortunately the markets allow us to invest (er wager) on such propositions and It might be a good time to do so.
@CoinPhysicist said:
In my eyes as a buyer, the problem right now with eBay and sales tax is not that it's being collected, it's that I don't know when it is going to be collected until I've committed.
When I bid on a coin at an auction or through an accepted best offer, I have no way to know until after the auction if I win or if the offer is accepted if I am going to have eBay add sales tax to my winning bid. I find this very frustrating because I cannot plan accordingly with my bids. At least with buy it nows I can see before I commit to buying if sales tax is going to be collected. On the auction wins and best offers, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. Even for sellers in my state, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. It's really frustrating to not know before I am bound to purchase.
10.25% makes a huge difference.
Bingo. It is the uncertainty that will dismantle the once invincible brand.
$3 tax on a $30 book and you wince.
$175 tax on a Mid grade saint and you send a polite notice to the seller.
@jmlanzaf said:
I don't think they thought through all the implications.
I would say so. B&Ms don't have to charge sales tax based on the buyer's residence. Why should internet sellers?
Because the B&M transfer of goods (the sale) takes place at the store's location.
Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him.
I don't think that's legally correct. I think both obligations must be met: payment made and ownership transferred.
@CoinPhysicist said:
In my eyes as a buyer, the problem right now with eBay and sales tax is not that it's being collected, it's that I don't know when it is going to be collected until I've committed.
When I bid on a coin at an auction or through an accepted best offer, I have no way to know until after the auction if I win or if the offer is accepted if I am going to have eBay add sales tax to my winning bid. I find this very frustrating because I cannot plan accordingly with my bids. At least with buy it nows I can see before I commit to buying if sales tax is going to be collected. On the auction wins and best offers, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. Even for sellers in my state, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. It's really frustrating to not know before I am bound to purchase.
10.25% makes a huge difference.
There should be no mystery here. The tax is based on YOUR location and YOUR state's laws. So, if there are no exemptions, you are always paying tax. If there is a $1000 exemption, every time you are below $1000 it will be taxed.
@jmlanzaf said:
I don't think they thought through all the implications.
I would say so. B&Ms don't have to charge sales tax based on the buyer's residence. Why should internet sellers?
Because the B&M transfer of goods (the sale) takes place at the store's location.
Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him.
Ebay buyer protection says item belongs to seller until proof of delivery. LOL
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?
@Coinstartled said:
You have forgotten ad revenue, which is their kryptonite.
Small seller goes and so do millions of pages of ad dollars. Think selling a Morgan dollar and two dozen ads pop up on the page from touting other dollars.
36 months and they are kaput as a viable commerce site.
LMAO. That's pretty specific. Shall we bet?
I got 10 K to bet on that one.
Is it a bet?
I bet you will not take that bet.
Put your money where your mouth is.
I assume you are talking to Coinstartled not me. LOL
Of course.
I like betting on a sure thing against the uninformed. Easy money.
LOL. It does change things. eBay said in July that they think it has dinged gross volume by 1% and other states have been added since. It's not a non-factor, but it's not a death blow. I bet that the vast majority of eBay $ volume is from sellers are large businesses.
Ok, let us consider Apmex. They are the big player of the coin category. There FVF is in the 2% range. Apmex likes to place bullion type coins in the error category so that buyers can pick up the 8-10% Bucks promos. Tell me where the profit is with that large seller.
Furthermore, do you think buyers in taxable locales on bullion will be quick to pony up $100 or more on what they consider to be an investment purchase when they can do a deal at a show or with another collector...BST for example.
Apply that to computer sellers...another fairly high ticket category.
Maybe snapchat will absorb the Ebay business...I am inspired by EOC and need to look further at that option.
@CoinPhysicist said:
In my eyes as a buyer, the problem right now with eBay and sales tax is not that it's being collected, it's that I don't know when it is going to be collected until I've committed.
When I bid on a coin at an auction or through an accepted best offer, I have no way to know until after the auction if I win or if the offer is accepted if I am going to have eBay add sales tax to my winning bid. I find this very frustrating because I cannot plan accordingly with my bids. At least with buy it nows I can see before I commit to buying if sales tax is going to be collected. On the auction wins and best offers, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. Even for sellers in my state, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. It's really frustrating to not know before I am bound to purchase.
10.25% makes a huge difference.
There should be no mystery here. The tax is based on YOUR location and YOUR state's laws. So, if there are no exemptions, you are always paying tax. If there is a $1000 exemption, every time you are below $1000 it will be taxed.
That isn't how it's been applied though. It's not consistent when you are buying from non company sellers on eBay. I understand that companies like APMEX are collecting it correctly for my state - because I've checked. I also understand that it's applied based on my state and my state's laws - California because I live here.
I'm saying that it's being applied inconsistently for many sellers (oftentimes small companies and individuals, not huge companies like APMEX) and as recently as last week that sometimes it gets collected when it should, sometimes it gets collected when it shouldn't, and sometimes it doesn't get collected when it should. There is no consistency. When you purchase with buy it now, it's fine because before you commit you can see the total and if eBay added sales tax to it. But when you bid at auction or submit a best offer, you don't know if eBay is going to collect sales tax on top of the winning bid/offer until you have committed to buy the item either by winning the auction or having your best offer accepted. So because of this, you don't know if you are going to get it collected... For me it adds 10.25% of uncertainty and potential extra costs to every bid.
@Coinstartled said:
You have forgotten ad revenue, which is their kryptonite.
Small seller goes and so do millions of pages of ad dollars. Think selling a Morgan dollar and two dozen ads pop up on the page from touting other dollars.
36 months and they are kaput as a viable commerce site.
LMAO. That's pretty specific. Shall we bet?
I got 10 K to bet on that one.
Is it a bet?
I bet you will not take that bet.
Put your money where your mouth is.
I assume you are talking to Coinstartled not me. LOL
Of course.
I like betting on a sure thing against the uninformed. Easy money.
LOL. It does change things. eBay said in July that they think it has dinged gross volume by 1% and other states have been added since. It's not a non-factor, but it's not a death blow. I bet that the vast majority of eBay $ volume is from sellers are large businesses.
Ok, let us consider Apmex. They are the big player of the coin category. There FVF is in the 2% range. Apmex likes to place bullion type coins in the error category so that buyers can pick up the 8-10% Bucks promos. Tell me where the profit is with that large seller.
Furthermore, do you think buyers in taxable locales on bullion will be quick to pony up $100 or more on what they consider to be an investment purchase when they can do a deal at a show or with another collector...BST for example.
Apply that to computer sellers...another fairly high ticket category.
Maybe snapchat will absorb the Ebay business...I am inspired by EOC and need to look further at that option.
Tax is due at shows in your state'
as well. Besides, coins are only 2% of ebay business.
And, again, you can pay the tax on ebay or at your local computer store. There's no way to avoid the tax.
I assume you feel that Heritage, Stacks and Great Collections are similarly doomed. They don't have cloud services to fall back on either.
You better tell Mark and Ian to start looking for work.
@CoinPhysicist said:
In my eyes as a buyer, the problem right now with eBay and sales tax is not that it's being collected, it's that I don't know when it is going to be collected until I've committed.
When I bid on a coin at an auction or through an accepted best offer, I have no way to know until after the auction if I win or if the offer is accepted if I am going to have eBay add sales tax to my winning bid. I find this very frustrating because I cannot plan accordingly with my bids. At least with buy it nows I can see before I commit to buying if sales tax is going to be collected. On the auction wins and best offers, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. Even for sellers in my state, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. It's really frustrating to not know before I am bound to purchase.
10.25% makes a huge difference.
There should be no mystery here. The tax is based on YOUR location and YOUR state's laws. So, if there are no exemptions, you are always paying tax. If there is a $1000 exemption, every time you are below $1000 it will be taxed.
That isn't how it's been applied though. It's not consistent when you are buying from non company sellers on eBay. I understand that companies like APMEX are collecting it correctly for my state - because I've checked. I also understand that it's applied based on my state and my state's laws - California because I live here.
I'm saying that it's being applied inconsistently for many sellers (oftentimes small companies and individuals, not huge companies like APMEX) and as recently as last week that sometimes it gets collected when it should, sometimes it gets collected when it shouldn't, and sometimes it doesn't get collected when it should. There is no consistency. When you purchase with buy it now, it's fine because before you commit you can see the total and if eBay added sales tax to it. But when you bid at auction or submit a best offer, you don't know if eBay is going to collect sales tax on top of the winning bid/offer until you have committed to buy the item either by winning the auction or having your best offer accepted. So because of this, you don't know if you are going to get it collected... For me it adds 10.25% of uncertainty and potential extra costs to every bid.
That doesn't make any sense to me. They do it by category and state, no seller should be exempt.
@CoinPhysicist I can't believe people can stand a 10.25% sales tax! So how much are the personal income taxes and Property Taxes in Socialist California?
@amwldcoin said: @CoinPhysicist I can't believe people can stand a 10.25% sales tax! So how much are the personal income taxes and Property Taxes in Socialist California?
@jmlanzaf said:
I don't know. When you put it like that it sounds silly. But the transaction certainly isn't completed when the coin is still in your house.
But I'm not saying the transaction is completed. Just that once it's paid for, the coin in my house belongs to someone else. Having physical control of an item does not necessarily determine ownership. When you rent a car, the car doesn't belong to you even though it's in your possession.
@CoinPhysicist said:
In my eyes as a buyer, the problem right now with eBay and sales tax is not that it's being collected, it's that I don't know when it is going to be collected until I've committed.
When I bid on a coin at an auction or through an accepted best offer, I have no way to know until after the auction if I win or if the offer is accepted if I am going to have eBay add sales tax to my winning bid. I find this very frustrating because I cannot plan accordingly with my bids. At least with buy it nows I can see before I commit to buying if sales tax is going to be collected. On the auction wins and best offers, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. Even for sellers in my state, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. It's really frustrating to not know before I am bound to purchase.
10.25% makes a huge difference.
There should be no mystery here. The tax is based on YOUR location and YOUR state's laws. So, if there are no exemptions, you are always paying tax. If there is a $1000 exemption, every time you are below $1000 it will be taxed.
That isn't how it's been applied though. It's not consistent when you are buying from non company sellers on eBay. I understand that companies like APMEX are collecting it correctly for my state - because I've checked. I also understand that it's applied based on my state and my state's laws - California because I live here.
I'm saying that it's being applied inconsistently for many sellers (oftentimes small companies and individuals, not huge companies like APMEX) and as recently as last week that sometimes it gets collected when it should, sometimes it gets collected when it shouldn't, and sometimes it doesn't get collected when it should. There is no consistency. When you purchase with buy it now, it's fine because before you commit you can see the total and if eBay added sales tax to it. But when you bid at auction or submit a best offer, you don't know if eBay is going to collect sales tax on top of the winning bid/offer until you have committed to buy the item either by winning the auction or having your best offer accepted. So because of this, you don't know if you are going to get it collected... For me it adds 10.25% of uncertainty and potential extra costs to every bid.
That doesn't make any sense to me. They do it by category and state, no seller should be exempt.
May not make any sense but I've seen it. The inconsistency in how it's applied is what kills me.
@amwldcoin: Property taxes are actually pretty low in California thanks to Prop 13 from the 1970s. Section 1a of Prop 13 from wikipedia: "Section 1. (a) The maximum amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed one percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties. " I believe they are also capped at how much they can increase in a year. There is a group of people that want to get rid of prop 13, but I'm not sure how much traction they really have. Income tax is from 1 to 12.3%.
@jmlanzaf said:
I don't know. When you put it like that it sounds silly. But the transaction certainly isn't completed when the coin is still in your house.
But I'm not saying the transaction is completed. Just that once it's paid for, the coin in my house belongs to someone else. Having physical control of an item does not necessarily determine ownership. When you rent a car, the car doesn't belong to you even though it's in your possession.
According to my internet legal research, the transaction is completed at whatever point the contract calls for. So, I guess that means the state can define it anyway they want.
I guess I haven't been clear. I'm not talking about when a transaction is completed. My original comment:
"Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him."
Hmmm...We calculate Property taxes in Mils here...Not Full percentage points! I'm in the highest...at least last time I checked county and I believe our property taxes are around 31 Mils!
@CoinPhysicist said:
In my eyes as a buyer, the problem right now with eBay and sales tax is not that it's being collected, it's that I don't know when it is going to be collected until I've committed.
When I bid on a coin at an auction or through an accepted best offer, I have no way to know until after the auction if I win or if the offer is accepted if I am going to have eBay add sales tax to my winning bid. I find this very frustrating because I cannot plan accordingly with my bids. At least with buy it nows I can see before I commit to buying if sales tax is going to be collected. On the auction wins and best offers, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. Even for sellers in my state, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. It's really frustrating to not know before I am bound to purchase.
10.25% makes a huge difference.
There should be no mystery here. The tax is based on YOUR location and YOUR state's laws. So, if there are no exemptions, you are always paying tax. If there is a $1000 exemption, every time you are below $1000 it will be taxed.
That isn't how it's been applied though. It's not consistent when you are buying from non company sellers on eBay. I understand that companies like APMEX are collecting it correctly for my state - because I've checked. I also understand that it's applied based on my state and my state's laws - California because I live here.
I'm saying that it's being applied inconsistently for many sellers (oftentimes small companies and individuals, not huge companies like APMEX) and as recently as last week that sometimes it gets collected when it should, sometimes it gets collected when it shouldn't, and sometimes it doesn't get collected when it should. There is no consistency. When you purchase with buy it now, it's fine because before you commit you can see the total and if eBay added sales tax to it. But when you bid at auction or submit a best offer, you don't know if eBay is going to collect sales tax on top of the winning bid/offer until you have committed to buy the item either by winning the auction or having your best offer accepted. So because of this, you don't know if you are going to get it collected... For me it adds 10.25% of uncertainty and potential extra costs to every bid.
That doesn't make any sense to me. They do it by category and state, no seller should be exempt.
May not make any sense but I've seen it. The inconsistency in how it's applied is what kills me.
@amwldcoin: Property taxes are actually pretty low in California thanks to Prop 13 from the 1970s. Section 1a of Prop 13 from wikipedia: "Section 1. (a) The maximum amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed one percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties. " I believe they are also capped at how much they can increase in a year. There is a group of people that want to get rid of prop 13, but I'm not sure how much traction they really have. Income tax is from 1 to 12.3%.
@MasonG said:
I guess I haven't been clear. I'm not talking about when a transaction is completed. My original comment:
"Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him."
Again, according to my internet law degree, title can transfer at any point in the transaction as defined by the contract. So, that would suggest that if the State wants ownership to transfer upon delivery, they can.
I'd also point out that eBay does not consider ownership transferred until after delivery which is why liability remains with the seller/shipper until delivery is confirmed.
@amwldcoin said:
Hmmm...We calculate Property taxes in Mils here...Not Full percentage points! I'm in the highest...at least last time I checked county and I believe our property taxes are around 31 Mils!
You can't beat Upstate NY. We have 6 of the top 8 counties for tax rate. My taxes are $7000 per year on a $150,000 assessment. I consider myself to be renting the house from the State of NY.
@amwldcoin said:
Hmmm...We calculate Property taxes in Mils here...Not Full percentage points! I'm in the highest...at least last time I checked county and I believe our property taxes are around 31 Mils!
You can't beat Upstate NY. We have 6 of the top 8 counties for tax rate. My taxes are $7000 per year on a $150,000 assessment. I consider myself to be renting the house from the State of NY.
@jmlanzaf said:
I'd also point out that eBay does not consider ownership transferred until after delivery...
I wouldn't put it past eBay to believe something as silly as the idea the seller is the owner of the buyer's payment and the item the buyer has paid for, both at the same time.
@jmlanzaf said:
I'd also point out that eBay does not consider ownership transferred until after delivery...
I wouldn't put it past eBay to believe something as silly as the idea the seller is the owner of the buyer's payment and the item the buyer has paid for, both at the same time.
I don't think that's silly. It's logical. The buyer doesn't WANT transfer until it is in his hand or he is liable for a missing package not the shipper.
I would like to know where they get their percentage from to charge buyers taxes? I just purchased and item from a seller in Dearborn, Mi.. I live in Midland, Tx. The total sales tax is 6% in Michigan. My tax is a combination of 6.25% state and 1.25% local which totals 7.5%. I was charged 8% in taxes on my item!! Whats up with that?
@bsshog40 said:
I would like to know where they get their percentage from to charge sellers taxes? I just purchased and item from a seller in Dearborn, Mi.. I live in Midland, Tx. The total sales tax is 6% in Michigan. My tax is a combination of 6.25% state and 1.25% local which totals 7.5%. I was charged 8% in taxes on my item!! Whats up with that?
There is NO SELLER'S TAX, it is a BUYER'S TAX. What is the tax rate in Midland, TX?
According to this chart, the tax rate is 8% in Texas for the Internet sales tax.
@bsshog40 said:
I would like to know where they get their percentage from to charge sellers taxes? I just purchased and item from a seller in Dearborn, Mi.. I live in Midland, Tx. The total sales tax is 6% in Michigan. My tax is a combination of 6.25% state and 1.25% local which totals 7.5%. I was charged 8% in taxes on my item!! Whats up with that?
There is NO SELLER'S TAX, it is a BUYER'S TAX. What is the tax rate in Midland, TX?
According to this chart, the tax rate is 8% in Texas for the Internet sales tax.
Yea I just seen where they raised it up. I still don't understand why I'm not having to pay the sales tax from the state I'm buying it in. The seller would only have to charge 6%, but I get charged in the state I'm in. Doesn't make sense. If I was visiting Michigan, I would only have to pay 6% if I bought it there.
Here's the answer I got from Ebay. "This tax law was passed because states realized that they were missing out on money from items coming into the state. The tax will go off of your shipping address. If you changed the address to one in Michigan we would charge the 6%." Well I can see me looking locally to purchase from now on before buying on ebay. I pay the same sales tax only have it in hand immediately. No benefit to buying on ebay anymore unless its an item not locally found.
@bsshog40 said:
I would like to know where they get their percentage from to charge sellers taxes? I just purchased and item from a seller in Dearborn, Mi.. I live in Midland, Tx. The total sales tax is 6% in Michigan. My tax is a combination of 6.25% state and 1.25% local which totals 7.5%. I was charged 8% in taxes on my item!! Whats up with that?
There is NO SELLER'S TAX, it is a BUYER'S TAX. What is the tax rate in Midland, TX?
According to this chart, the tax rate is 8% in Texas for the Internet sales tax.
@bsshog40 said:
I would like to know where they get their percentage from to charge sellers taxes? I just purchased and item from a seller in Dearborn, Mi.. I live in Midland, Tx. The total sales tax is 6% in Michigan. My tax is a combination of 6.25% state and 1.25% local which totals 7.5%. I was charged 8% in taxes on my item!! Whats up with that?
There is NO SELLER'S TAX, it is a BUYER'S TAX. What is the tax rate in Midland, TX?
According to this chart, the tax rate is 8% in Texas for the Internet sales tax.
Yea I just seen where they raised it up. I still don't understand why I'm not having to pay the sales tax from the state I'm buying it in. The seller would only have to charge 6%, but I get charged in the state I'm in. Doesn't make sense. If I was visiting Michigan, I would only have to pay 6% if I bought it there.
Because your state is taxing you. Your state has no power to tax Michigan
@bsshog40 said:
I would like to know where they get their percentage from to charge sellers taxes? I just purchased and item from a seller in Dearborn, Mi.. I live in Midland, Tx. The total sales tax is 6% in Michigan. My tax is a combination of 6.25% state and 1.25% local which totals 7.5%. I was charged 8% in taxes on my item!! Whats up with that?
There is NO SELLER'S TAX, it is a BUYER'S TAX. What is the tax rate in Midland, TX?
According to this chart, the tax rate is 8% in Texas for the Internet sales tax.
Yea I just seen where they raised it up. I still don't understand why I'm not having to pay the sales tax from the state I'm buying it in. The seller would only have to charge 6%, but I get charged in the state I'm in. Doesn't make sense. If I was visiting Michigan, I would only have to pay 6% if I bought it there.
Because your tax is taxing you. Your state has no power to tax Michigan
@derryb said:
Ebay buyer protection says item belongs to seller until proof of delivery. LOL
LOL indeed. Can you link to eBay's policy? I looked and can't find it.
It's in the common sense policy since ebay requires a seller to provide proof of delivery in a "item not received" claim filed by a buyer. Without proof of delivery ebay will always side with the buyer. Therefore ebay considers item to be in buyer's hands until proof it was delivered.
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?
Comments
...and where does that leave the hapless Ebay seller? He has no cloud or same day delivery. All good in the world of competition and free enterprise (short of the government tax advantage extended the large blokes,) his playing filed is longer and steeper than that of the Miami Dolphins.)
That certainly shorts out the Ebay model. it was a pretty good run though.
So far it has not been an issue for me that I know of.
It’s a non controllable for the seller. The buyer will need to decide if he wants to use the venue. What basis is eBay using to charge a seller tax? The sellers state or the buyers state? I am located in Texas where coins and bullion exempt.
You love trashing eBay, but answer me this Batman: what percentage of eBay revenue comes from "small sellers" and what comes from "large sellers" and what revenue comes from "garage salers" cleaning house.
Even if small sellers are doomed, that doesn't mean eBay is doomed.
You have forgotten ad revenue, which is their kryptonite.
Small seller goes and so do millions of pages of ad dollars. Think selling a Morgan dollar and two dozen ads pop up on the page from touting other dollars.
36 months and they are kaput as a viable commerce site.
LMAO. That's pretty specific. Shall we bet?
I got 10 K to bet on that one.
Is it a bet?
I bet you will not take that bet.
Put your money where your mouth is.
I assume you are talking to Coinstartled not me. LOL
Of course.
I like betting on a sure thing against the uninformed. Easy money.
LOL. It does change things. eBay said in July that they think it has dinged gross volume by 1% and other states have been added since. It's not a non-factor, but it's not a death blow. I bet that the vast majority of eBay $ volume is from sellers are large businesses.
so Feebay will collect the taxes and then submit these to the respective Gov.
right??
what happens to the taxes collected by Feebay from the time it is collected to the time it is remitted to the Gov?????
I assume Feebay does get a commission for doing so and has negotiated a remittance schedule like, weekly, monthly, or even daily.
In the meantime, IMP, the $$$$ are working capital??? Millions of it???
Jesus, people are really nuts on this issue WHICH IS NOT REALLY AN EBAY ISSUE AT ALL.
ALL businesses - from Walmart to MYSELF collect taxes daily and remit them either monthly (eBay for sure), quarterly or annually. That is what EVERY STORE YOU VISITED this weekend does. You want them to file daily? Maybe hourly?
Yes, eBay gets an interest free loan while it's waiting to file. It also has to pay someone to do the filing and the auditing and guarantee compliance with 30+ taxing jurisdictions.
Gee, I wonder why eBay FOUGHT the Internet Sales tax for more than a decade. They should have embraced the windfall.
My State gives the business party collecting the sales tax a small part of the take, exactly for the purpose of helping the business out with the collection and accounting expenses. I presume eBay would also get a similar percentage.
Because the B&M transfer of goods (the sale) takes place at the store's location.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
This is true, but it also could be viewed as a different standard. The B&M laws define nexus based on where the transfer of goods takes place - at the B&M - regardless of where the seller lives. The internet laws actually establish nexus by a somewhat different standard. The transfer of goods is viewed as taking place at the BUYER'S location, regardless of where the Seller is located.
Now, one could see this as being the same if the physical transfer of goods is viewed as the source of the nexus being established. But what if I buy a phone app or piece of digital content or just a subscription service: the seller might be in NY, the digital content might be stored in a server farm in Washington State, the payment was processed in California, all so the buyer in Illinois gets a digital stream. It's a little harder for me to figure out where ownership actually is transferred in that case.
Here's another fun nexus case: you live in Illinois but buy a tourism app for San Francisco while vacationing. The tourism app comes from a Florida dealer via a California developer, paid for by a bank with corporate headquarters in NY. The current law would apply Illinois tax even though the app is never used in Illinois and you bought it while in San Francisco! LOL
That's why nexus is a mess.
Suppose I live adjacent to a sales-tax free state and get a P.O. Box in that State though my residence is in a taxable State. Did not the "goods transfer" actually take place at the P.O. Box? Yet I'm going to be taxed if I drive it across the border. So nexus isn't really being judged by where the goods transfer takes place but where I live. In that sense, it is a very different definition of nexus.
In my eyes as a buyer, the problem right now with eBay and sales tax is not that it's being collected, it's that I don't know when it is going to be collected until I've committed.
When I bid on a coin at an auction or through an accepted best offer, I have no way to know until after the auction if I win or if the offer is accepted if I am going to have eBay add sales tax to my winning bid. I find this very frustrating because I cannot plan accordingly with my bids. At least with buy it nows I can see before I commit to buying if sales tax is going to be collected. On the auction wins and best offers, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. Even for sellers in my state, sometimes it's collected, sometimes it's not. It's really frustrating to not know before I am bound to purchase.
10.25% makes a huge difference.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him.
I stay away from forum wagers as they are frowned on by the host and one can run into unforeseen problems if the facts regarding the wager are not fully and properly disclosed.
In the example you are proposing, since I mentioned 36 months, if they go bust in 24 months do I lose, what would the window be. What if they go bankrupt, but are operating under the bankruptcy code, who wins. I mean $10,000 is like 3000 pounds of tuna (non sushi grade.)
Fortunately the markets allow us to invest (er wager) on such propositions and It might be a good time to do so.
Bingo. It is the uncertainty that will dismantle the once invincible brand.
$3 tax on a $30 book and you wince.
$175 tax on a Mid grade saint and you send a polite notice to the seller.
I don't think that's legally correct. I think both obligations must be met: payment made and ownership transferred.
There should be no mystery here. The tax is based on YOUR location and YOUR state's laws. So, if there are no exemptions, you are always paying tax. If there is a $1000 exemption, every time you are below $1000 it will be taxed.
Ebay buyer protection says item belongs to seller until proof of delivery. LOL
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?
Ok, let us consider Apmex. They are the big player of the coin category. There FVF is in the 2% range. Apmex likes to place bullion type coins in the error category so that buyers can pick up the 8-10% Bucks promos. Tell me where the profit is with that large seller.
Furthermore, do you think buyers in taxable locales on bullion will be quick to pony up $100 or more on what they consider to be an investment purchase when they can do a deal at a show or with another collector...BST for example.
Apply that to computer sellers...another fairly high ticket category.
Maybe snapchat will absorb the Ebay business...I am inspired by EOC and need to look further at that option.
That isn't how it's been applied though. It's not consistent when you are buying from non company sellers on eBay. I understand that companies like APMEX are collecting it correctly for my state - because I've checked. I also understand that it's applied based on my state and my state's laws - California because I live here.
I'm saying that it's being applied inconsistently for many sellers (oftentimes small companies and individuals, not huge companies like APMEX) and as recently as last week that sometimes it gets collected when it should, sometimes it gets collected when it shouldn't, and sometimes it doesn't get collected when it should. There is no consistency. When you purchase with buy it now, it's fine because before you commit you can see the total and if eBay added sales tax to it. But when you bid at auction or submit a best offer, you don't know if eBay is going to collect sales tax on top of the winning bid/offer until you have committed to buy the item either by winning the auction or having your best offer accepted. So because of this, you don't know if you are going to get it collected... For me it adds 10.25% of uncertainty and potential extra costs to every bid.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Tax is due at shows in your state'
as well. Besides, coins are only 2% of ebay business.
And, again, you can pay the tax on ebay or at your local computer store. There's no way to avoid the tax.
I assume you feel that Heritage, Stacks and Great Collections are similarly doomed. They don't have cloud services to fall back on either.
You better tell Mark and Ian to start looking for work.
That doesn't make any sense to me. They do it by category and state, no seller should be exempt.
@CoinPhysicist I can't believe people can stand a 10.25% sales tax! So how much are the personal income taxes and Property Taxes in Socialist California?
shhhhh....you'll wake up @ErrorsOnCoins
Are you saying that until the buyer receives the coin, the coin and the payment both belong to me? That doesn't sound right.
LOL indeed. Can you link to eBay's policy? I looked and can't find it.
I don't know. When you put it like that it sounds silly. But the transaction certainly isn't completed when the coin is still in your house.
But I'm not saying the transaction is completed. Just that once it's paid for, the coin in my house belongs to someone else. Having physical control of an item does not necessarily determine ownership. When you rent a car, the car doesn't belong to you even though it's in your possession.
May not make any sense but I've seen it. The inconsistency in how it's applied is what kills me.
@amwldcoin: Property taxes are actually pretty low in California thanks to Prop 13 from the 1970s. Section 1a of Prop 13 from wikipedia: "Section 1. (a) The maximum amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed one percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties. " I believe they are also capped at how much they can increase in a year. There is a group of people that want to get rid of prop 13, but I'm not sure how much traction they really have. Income tax is from 1 to 12.3%.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
According to my internet legal research, the transaction is completed at whatever point the contract calls for. So, I guess that means the state can define it anyway they want.
I guess I haven't been clear. I'm not talking about when a transaction is completed. My original comment:
"Once I accept payment, the item is no longer mine. Even though the purchaser does not yet have it in his possession, it still, nonetheless, belongs to him."
Hmmm...We calculate Property taxes in Mils here...Not Full percentage points! I'm in the highest...at least last time I checked county and I believe our property taxes are around 31 Mils!
Again, according to my internet law degree, title can transfer at any point in the transaction as defined by the contract. So, that would suggest that if the State wants ownership to transfer upon delivery, they can.
I'd also point out that eBay does not consider ownership transferred until after delivery which is why liability remains with the seller/shipper until delivery is confirmed.
You can't beat Upstate NY. We have 6 of the top 8 counties for tax rate. My taxes are $7000 per year on a $150,000 assessment. I consider myself to be renting the house from the State of NY.
That's what it sounds like!
I wouldn't put it past eBay to believe something as silly as the idea the seller is the owner of the buyer's payment and the item the buyer has paid for, both at the same time.
I don't think that's silly. It's logical. The buyer doesn't WANT transfer until it is in his hand or he is liable for a missing package not the shipper.
I would like to know where they get their percentage from to charge buyers taxes? I just purchased and item from a seller in Dearborn, Mi.. I live in Midland, Tx. The total sales tax is 6% in Michigan. My tax is a combination of 6.25% state and 1.25% local which totals 7.5%. I was charged 8% in taxes on my item!! Whats up with that?
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
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There is NO SELLER'S TAX, it is a BUYER'S TAX. What is the tax rate in Midland, TX?
According to this chart, the tax rate is 8% in Texas for the Internet sales tax.
https://salestaxinstitute.com/jurisdiction/texas?fwp_topic=nexus
Yea I just seen where they raised it up. I still don't understand why I'm not having to pay the sales tax from the state I'm buying it in. The seller would only have to charge 6%, but I get charged in the state I'm in. Doesn't make sense. If I was visiting Michigan, I would only have to pay 6% if I bought it there.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
Ahhhh, mass confusion.
This is like musical chairs with 100 players and six chairs...and the record skips.
Here's the answer I got from Ebay. "This tax law was passed because states realized that they were missing out on money from items coming into the state. The tax will go off of your shipping address. If you changed the address to one in Michigan we would charge the 6%." Well I can see me looking locally to purchase from now on before buying on ebay. I pay the same sales tax only have it in hand immediately. No benefit to buying on ebay anymore unless its an item not locally found.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
No need to yell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had already fixed my mistake before you answered!!!
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
Because your state is taxing you. Your state has no power to tax Michigan
Mostly because people have not read the 1000 explanations that ebay and others have provided. It really is veri simple.
I know! I'm just sayin! Lol
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
It's in the common sense policy since ebay requires a seller to provide proof of delivery in a "item not received" claim filed by a buyer. Without proof of delivery ebay will always side with the buyer. Therefore ebay considers item to be in buyer's hands until proof it was delivered.
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?