to answer the Belichick/Brady "who made who" question I would ask what was Belichick's record without Brady as his Quarterback?? keep in mind I am just now getting accustomed to something strange: being able to publicly acknowledge the greatness of Brady, the prowess of Belichick and the almost two decades-long Dynasty of the New England Patriots.
guys like erikthered and perkdog have made it difficult and humbling!!
Belichick was OK as a HC in Cleveland and probably would have had a fine, long, successful career there if the fans and media hadn't hounded him. such is pro-Sports here. more tutelage with his mentor got him to the Pat's where he had a rocky start until..............................Tom Brady rode to the rescue and led the Team to the Super Bowl victory over none other than the Cleveland/L.A./St. Louis Rams. the rest is history.
I think it would be poetic justice and the kind of storybook end to a fabulous career that Legends are made of if Tom Brady were to close things out with another Super Bowl victory against the Cleveland/L.A./St. Louis/L.A. Rams.
Bill Belichick would most probably continue but I think in a few seasons we would know "who made who" and the argument could be settled.
@keets said:
to answer the Belichick/Brady "who made who" question I would ask what was Belichick's record without Brady as his Quarterback?? keep in mind I am just now getting accustomed to something strange: being able to publicly acknowledge the greatness of Brady, the prowess of Belichick and the almost two decades-long Dynasty of the New England Patriots.
guys like erikthered and perkdog have made it difficult and humbling!!
Belichick was OK as a HC in Cleveland and probably would have had a fine, long, successful career there if the fans and media hadn't hounded him. such is pro-Sports here. more tutelage with his mentor got him to the Pat's where he had a rocky start until..............................Tom Brady rode to the rescue and led the Team to the Super Bowl victory over none other than the Cleveland/L.A./St. Louis Rams. the rest is history.
I think it would be poetic justice and the kind of storybook end to a fabulous career that Legends are made of if Tom Brady were to close things out with another Super Bowl victory against the Cleveland/L.A./St. Louis/L.A. Rams.
Bill Belichick would most probably continue but I think in a few seasons we would know "who made who" and the argument could be settled.
Well if those questions are to be asked then the following should be asked as well.
I think we've all seen the pre-draft workout videos of Tom Brady. Which from what I've read and seen were some of the worst physical examples of these workouts of a QB ever. Which is why Brady was a sixth round draft pick, and who knows how much lower he may have gone if the Patriots weren't interested in him.
The interesting question is what could Belichick have achieved with a QB with the physical skills of a Dan Marino or John Elway?
Here is my take on the overall premise. Belichick would have achieved greatness without Brady, but Brady would not have achieved greatness without Belichick. In my opinion, it's really not debatable...and Brady himself has basically clearly stated exactly that.
That being said, the match of those two was simply lightening in a bottle. Without question, Brady is one of the smartest football players of all time, and one of the most coachable players of all time. Brady likely absorbed and learned from Belichick better than any other quarterback could do.
The interesting scenario is that the chemistry that occurred would probably not have happened with perhaps any other QB, to the degree that it has with Brady because of Brady's unique personality. Absolutely a perfect fit with Bill Belichick.
I think that say a Belichick-Marino or a Belichick-Elway pairing, would not have been as successful as the Belichick-Brady pairing. Brady fully absorbs the Belichick genius, and takes those ideas out to the playing field, which i doubt that any other QB could do nearly as well.
So yes, the two needed each other to achieve this most amazing, remarkable, phenomenal of runs for an American team sport. I realize the Yankees had some amazing runs as well, and some NBA teams, but not under the same restrictions and roadblocks to long term winning compared to a current era NFL football team for reasons previously mentioned, and it's not even close.
At the end of the day the players make the plays and the coaches put the players in the best position to make them.
Brady is like a coach on the field. The way he checked out of plays in the second half/OT and putting a guy in motion in short yardage situations was masterful
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
This offseason, Brady signed a two-year extension with the Patriots. So what’s the big deal? Well, the extension voids in 2020. Unless the Patriots and Brady put together another pact, Brady will be a free agent this offseason. There’s plenty of time to revise the contract. But it should be nerve-wracking for New England fans that, for the first time in his career, Brady is playing on the final year of his contract. The contract also presents the Patriots from placing the franchise tag on him.
Here’s what Brady had to say on WEEI in August about these stipulations, which create increased uncertainty for his future:
“Beyond this year, whether it is signing for five more years, or signing a franchise tag, or not playing — none of those things need to be decided this year. I think what it was was focusing on this season and being in the right mental, emotional frame of mind to go out there and perform at my highest level.”
Speaking for myself I’m not wracking my nerves thinking about what Brady is doing next year whatsoever. If he retires then off to the next chapter, if he resigns then that’s great but I highly doubt he will ever wear another uniform outside of a Patriots one
@pitboss said:
Not going to even read the comments on this post as most of you just wish he was your teams coach. I'm glad he is mine.
That wasn't the point of the thread. The point was Patriots fans who bash Bill Belichick and don't give Belichick the full credit that he deserves.
These Patriots fans who believe that Tom Brady is the major reason for the Patriots run of success, and not Bill Belichick. Patriots fans who nitpick every mistake Belichick makes, but when Brady under performs they give him a pass.
Belichick is great, Brady is great, it would be silly to deny that, and no Patriots fan does. I just think that because of the greatness of Tom Brady, some Patriots fans, and it could be many, don't give Belichick the full credit that he deserves.
In my opinion Tom Brady is a great football player, but Bill Belichick is the Albert Einstein of modern day football and the NFL head coach GOAT. I'd be sure that a number of Patriots fans would probably disagree with Belichick being the GOAT.
When Brady retires, there will be a lot of sadness in New England. When Belichick retires it won't be good riddance, but i think it will be in New England that almost nobody cares...and in my view that is wrong.
@pitboss said:
I am just sick and tired of everyone bashing B & B all the time and do not even read posts about them anymore as they are irrelevant in my opinion.
There is an official Bill Belichick Bashing Fan Club located in Boston. Perkdog will deny this, but i think he started the club.
I can understand perhaps a few of their points, but their demand that Kraft replace Belichick with Steve Spurrier is taking it a bit too far.
@pitboss said:
I am just sick and tired of everyone bashing B & B all the time and do not even read posts about them anymore as they are irrelevant in my opinion.
There is an official Bill Belichick Bashing Fan Club located in Boston. Perkdog will deny this, but i think he started the club.
I can understand perhaps a few of their points, but their demand that Kraft replace Belichick with Steve Spurrier is taking it a bit too far.
Well if anything I like to think my “Bashing” of Steve’s Favorite Coach is warranted. I will say that it’s a reasonable argument for someone to say that Belichick deserves as much credit as Brady for the Patriots success although I will never back down that Brady is the #1 reason however everything I’ve said about Belichick is factual as far as his mistakes that he has made, and has probably held back the Patriots from another ring or two. I bash him when it’s deserved and praise him as well
Yes, Belichick has won six Super Bowls for the Patriots but it's absolutely disgraceful, he should be ashamed, and needs to be tied to the whipping post and given at least a dozen lashes for not winning one or two more.
Whether Belichick will be made to walk the plank in the Boston Harbor is another matter under consideration that is posted in bold type on that website.
Brady is great, but he would nothing if he didn’t have a supporting cast around him. Despite consistently low draft picks and many personnel changes, the Patriots have been competitive and often champions year after year. It takes coaching and importantly, great personnel decisions to do that.
Look at the 49ers quarterback who getting lots of headlines. Belichick picked him. During Brady’s suspension, one commentator made the comment that the Belichick could put a helmet on a mop, send it out to play quarterback and still win. That was almost true. In the one game the Pats lost of the four, the third string quarterback had an injured thumb on his throwing hand and could barely hold the ball, let alone throw it. The Patriots got shutout in that game.
Belichick is the key to the Patriots success. When he retires, the Pats will need a great replacement, of things will go back to the 1980s.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
Brady is great, but he would nothing if he didn’t have a supporting cast around him. Despite consistently low draft picks and many personnel changes, the Patriots have been competitive and often champions year after year. It takes coaching and importantly, great personnel decisions to do that.
Look at the 49ers quarterback who getting lots of headlines. Belichick picked him. During Brady’s suspension, one commentator made the comment that the Belichick could put a helmet on a mop, send it out to play quarterback and still win. That was almost true. In the one game the Pats lost of the four, the third string quarterback had an injured thumb on his throwing hand and could barely hold the ball, let alone throw it. The Patriots got shutout in that game.
Belichick is the key to the Patriots success. When he retires, the Pats will need a great replacement, of things will go back to the 1980s.
Supporting cast around him? Are you kidding me? Before Welker, Moss and Gronk came to town nobody has done better with less than Brady has. That’s one of my biggest complaints with Belechick, asides from leaving Brady in late in blowouts. Brady’s first 3 Super Bowl wins his biggest playmakers were Troy Brown, David Givens and Bethel Johnson lol. Please, Put those guys together without Brady and you don’t win a Super Bowl let alone 3
What we are seeing with Belichick and Brady has never been seen before.
Usually coaches are fired. QBs get hurt or aren't given the chance to develop. This is a truly unique situation.
Admittedly, BB and Ernie Adams are master craftsmen. But they never could have made it happen without Tom Brady. He brought the intangibles, psychology, willingness to be coached, desire to keep improving even though he is being told he's the best, long-term career plan melded with yearly goals. Perfect storm.
It will never happen again. It was fate.
And yet, still, Tom Brady willed it to happen.
If anyone doesn't know it, look up the story about what the rookie Brady said to Bob Kraft, " I'm the best decision this organization has ever made. "
@perkdog said:
I’m glad someone else besides me can at least understand
Unfortunately many fans aren’t aware of some of the changes in the game. Salary cap/free agency in 1994 implemented to prevent dynasties (70’s Steelers, 80’s 49ers, 90’s Cowboys). Giving every team the same dollars to spend on salaries and allowing worst teams to select the best players from the draft sets up parity in the league. MLB has no salary cap and NBA players dictate where they will play, not in the NFL. What we have witnessed over the last 20 years is historic and most likely will never be duplicated. Fans that dispute this are either biased or don’t understand the league.
@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Giants fans are unimpressed by either Tom Brady or Bill Bellichek.
We beat those two tomato cans all the time...
Unfortunately I can’t come up with anything to dispute this. It’s all good though because deep down every Giant fan or any fan for that matter would trade their teams history for New England’s, they might deny it but it’s a fact.
I will stick with the Cowboys, but will admit that the Pat's have a slight edge on history right now. And unless we start getting better the distance will widen. But hey it is what it is. I hate haters!
@BillJones said:
Brady is great, but he would nothing if he didn’t have a supporting cast around him. Despite consistently low draft picks and many personnel changes, the Patriots have been competitive and often champions year after year. It takes coaching and importantly, great personnel decisions to do that.
Look at the 49ers quarterback who getting lots of headlines. Belichick picked him. During Brady’s suspension, one commentator made the comment that the Belichick could put a helmet on a mop, send it out to play quarterback and still win. That was almost true. In the one game the Pats lost of the four, the third string quarterback had an injured thumb on his throwing hand and could barely hold the ball, let alone throw it. The Patriots got shutout in that game.
Belichick is the key to the Patriots success. When he retires, the Pats will need a great replacement, of things will go back to the 1980s.
Supporting cast around him? Are you kidding me? Before Welker, Moss and Gronk came to town nobody has done better with less than Brady has. That’s one of my biggest complaints with Belechick, asides from leaving Brady in late in blowouts. Brady’s first 3 Super Bowl wins his biggest playmakers were Troy Brown, David Givens and Bethel Johnson lol. Please, Put those guys together without Brady and you don’t win a Super Bowl let alone 3
If the players were as bad as you say, it’s one more reason to phrase Belichick. He was able to meld mediocre talent into at least a contender and sometimes a championship team.
If you think the coach does not make a huge difference, you ignoring the “dynasty teams” who won year after year with ever changing rosters. Unlike baseball, you don’t have many franchise players, like Brady, who last for 20 years. Most running backs are finished in four or less.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
Brady is great, but he would nothing if he didn’t have a supporting cast around him. Despite consistently low draft picks and many personnel changes, the Patriots have been competitive and often champions year after year. It takes coaching and importantly, great personnel decisions to do that.
Look at the 49ers quarterback who getting lots of headlines. Belichick picked him. During Brady’s suspension, one commentator made the comment that the Belichick could put a helmet on a mop, send it out to play quarterback and still win. That was almost true. In the one game the Pats lost of the four, the third string quarterback had an injured thumb on his throwing hand and could barely hold the ball, let alone throw it. The Patriots got shutout in that game.
Belichick is the key to the Patriots success. When he retires, the Pats will need a great replacement, of things will go back to the 1980s.
Supporting cast around him? Are you kidding me? Before Welker, Moss and Gronk came to town nobody has done better with less than Brady has. That’s one of my biggest complaints with Belechick, asides from leaving Brady in late in blowouts. Brady’s first 3 Super Bowl wins his biggest playmakers were Troy Brown, David Givens and Bethel Johnson lol. Please, Put those guys together without Brady and you don’t win a Super Bowl let alone 3
If the players were as bad as you say, it’s one more reason to phrase Belichick. He was able to meld mediocre talent into at least a contender and sometimes a championship team.
If you think the coach does not make a huge difference, you ignoring the “dynasty teams” who won year after year with ever changing rosters. Unlike baseball, you don’t have many franchise players, like Brady, who last for 20 years. Most running backs are finished in four or less.
Belichick does not throw the ball, he doesn’t draw up the plays or audible at the line, he picks players that buy into his regime. If you think the cast of WR’s I mentioned would have gotten it done with another QB under Belichick then Ofcourse that’s your opinion and your entitled to it I just disagree. Bill won ZERO Super Bowls without Brady, he he didn’t even plan on playing him until he had no choice when Bledsoe went down. If you can honestly say the Pats would have been as successful without Brady then I’m saying I absolutely disagree.
@stevek said: The unofficial Bill Belichick bashing thread
Because of the many thousands, might be millions, could even be billions, possibly trillions of CU posts bashing Bill Belichick, scattered all around in numerous threads, located here is a concise concentrated area whereby Patriots fans and any others, can now spew their venom against Bill Belichick.
Please if possible, categorize your comments to the following for the improved learning experience of those not familiar with the man, who in my opinion is the greatest NFL head coach of all time.
Hasn't won enough Super Bowls.
Hasn't won enough games.
Hasn't drafted enough hall of fame quarterbacks
Doesn't put the best players on the field
Grumpy at press conferences
Cheats
Poor grooming habits
Can't sing or dance
Miscellaneous
Madness
With your parakeets at 4-4, I'd think you could be more creative than this crap. Worry about your Philly stuff, Boston is in great shape.
@BillJones said:
Brady is great, but he would nothing if he didn’t have a supporting cast around him. Despite consistently low draft picks and many personnel changes, the Patriots have been competitive and often champions year after year. It takes coaching and importantly, great personnel decisions to do that.
Look at the 49ers quarterback who getting lots of headlines. Belichick picked him. During Brady’s suspension, one commentator made the comment that the Belichick could put a helmet on a mop, send it out to play quarterback and still win. That was almost true. In the one game the Pats lost of the four, the third string quarterback had an injured thumb on his throwing hand and could barely hold the ball, let alone throw it. The Patriots got shutout in that game.
Belichick is the key to the Patriots success. When he retires, the Pats will need a great replacement, of things will go back to the 1980s.
Supporting cast around him? Are you kidding me? Before Welker, Moss and Gronk came to town nobody has done better with less than Brady has. That’s one of my biggest complaints with Belechick, asides from leaving Brady in late in blowouts. Brady’s first 3 Super Bowl wins his biggest playmakers were Troy Brown, David Givens and Bethel Johnson lol. Please, Put those guys together without Brady and you don’t win a Super Bowl let alone 3
If the players were as bad as you say, it’s one more reason to phrase Belichick. He was able to meld mediocre talent into at least a contender and sometimes a championship team.
If you think the coach does not make a huge difference, you ignoring the “dynasty teams” who won year after year with ever changing rosters. Unlike baseball, you don’t have many franchise players, like Brady, who last for 20 years. Most running backs are finished in four or less.
What devoted Brady fans don't seem to comprehend or simply don't wish to comprehend is that if it wasn't for Bill Belichick coaching Brady up, then Brady would have never come close to the heights he has achieved. Brady has even emphatically stated that.
Would Brady have achieved first ballot Hall of Fame stature under another head coach? I sincerely doubt it.
Would Belichick have won as many Super Bowls without Tom Brady? That is entirely possible.
The interesting hypothesis is would Belichick have won more Super Bowls with a superior athletic talent such as Marino or Elway? We shall never know for sure, but in my opinion it is plausible.
@stevek said: The unofficial Bill Belichick bashing thread
Because of the many thousands, might be millions, could even be billions, possibly trillions of CU posts bashing Bill Belichick, scattered all around in numerous threads, located here is a concise concentrated area whereby Patriots fans and any others, can now spew their venom against Bill Belichick.
Please if possible, categorize your comments to the following for the improved learning experience of those not familiar with the man, who in my opinion is the greatest NFL head coach of all time.
Hasn't won enough Super Bowls.
Hasn't won enough games.
Hasn't drafted enough hall of fame quarterbacks
Doesn't put the best players on the field
Grumpy at press conferences
Cheats
Poor grooming habits
Can't sing or dance
Miscellaneous
Madness
With your parakeets at 4-4, I'd think you could be more creative than this crap. Worry about your Philly stuff, Boston is in great shape.
Soon commeth November 17th!!
If DeSean Jackson comes back, that game is setting up nicely for an Eagles win. Without Jackson, it may be a tough task for the Eagles, but i'm expecting him to be back.
Eagles will be coming off a bye week, so being fresh will help as well in that game considering the Eagles injury situation. Patriots will also be coming off a bye week, but i think the bye favors the Eagles more.
Playing at the Linc will also help the Eagles. The Patriots will probably be around a 3 to 4 point favorite. But right now, unless something drastic happens, i'm calling for an Eagles win.
@BillJones said:
Brady is great, but he would nothing if he didn’t have a supporting cast around him. Despite consistently low draft picks and many personnel changes, the Patriots have been competitive and often champions year after year. It takes coaching and importantly, great personnel decisions to do that.
Look at the 49ers quarterback who getting lots of headlines. Belichick picked him. During Brady’s suspension, one commentator made the comment that the Belichick could put a helmet on a mop, send it out to play quarterback and still win. That was almost true. In the one game the Pats lost of the four, the third string quarterback had an injured thumb on his throwing hand and could barely hold the ball, let alone throw it. The Patriots got shutout in that game.
Belichick is the key to the Patriots success. When he retires, the Pats will need a great replacement, of things will go back to the 1980s.
Supporting cast around him? Are you kidding me? Before Welker, Moss and Gronk came to town nobody has done better with less than Brady has. That’s one of my biggest complaints with Belechick, asides from leaving Brady in late in blowouts. Brady’s first 3 Super Bowl wins his biggest playmakers were Troy Brown, David Givens and Bethel Johnson lol. Please, Put those guys together without Brady and you don’t win a Super Bowl let alone 3
If the players were as bad as you say, it’s one more reason to phrase Belichick. He was able to meld mediocre talent into at least a contender and sometimes a championship team.
If you think the coach does not make a huge difference, you ignoring the “dynasty teams” who won year after year with ever changing rosters. Unlike baseball, you don’t have many franchise players, like Brady, who last for 20 years. Most running backs are finished in four or less.
What devoted Brady fans don't seem to comprehend or simply don't wish to comprehend is that if it wasn't for Bill Belichick coaching Brady up, then Brady would have never come close to the heights he has achieved. Brady has even emphatically stated that.
Would Brady have achieved first ballot Hall of Fame stature under another head coach? I sincerely doubt it.
Would Belichick have won as many Super Bowls without Tom Brady? That is entirely possible.
The interesting hypothesis is would Belichick have won more Super Bowls with a superior athletic talent such as Marino or Elway? We shall never know for sure, but in my opinion it is plausible.
How about this hypothesis. Had Belichick given Brady more talent over the years on the offensive side of the ball how many more Super Bowls would they have won? That’s entirely plausible as well. Bill Coaching Brady up? That’s ridiculous, your acting like he was his personal QB Coach. Either way I get it, Nobody wants to give Brady the credit he really deserves, the guy has done more than any other PLAYER in the history of the NFL and people want to take away credit from him. I’ve heard it all and it’s always the same tired stuff. Again making the throws and reacting to defensive adjustments during live play and exploiting it is entirely done by the QB
... nobody wants to give Brady the credit he deserves ...
No, I didn’t say that. He might be the greatest of all quarterbacks, but without the personnel selections, coaching and play calling, he wouldn’t have succeed. It’s hard to pick out the great quarterback who never made it because of poor coaching or players around him. If he didn’t have a decent offense line in front of him, he probably spent most of his career on Injuryed Reserve, or never got the time to throw many great passes.
Football might be the least likely sport that could be a one man game. It takes a team to succeed.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
Brady is great, but he would nothing if he didn’t have a supporting cast around him. Despite consistently low draft picks and many personnel changes, the Patriots have been competitive and often champions year after year. It takes coaching and importantly, great personnel decisions to do that.
Look at the 49ers quarterback who getting lots of headlines. Belichick picked him. During Brady’s suspension, one commentator made the comment that the Belichick could put a helmet on a mop, send it out to play quarterback and still win. That was almost true. In the one game the Pats lost of the four, the third string quarterback had an injured thumb on his throwing hand and could barely hold the ball, let alone throw it. The Patriots got shutout in that game.
Belichick is the key to the Patriots success. When he retires, the Pats will need a great replacement, of things will go back to the 1980s.
Supporting cast around him? Are you kidding me? Before Welker, Moss and Gronk came to town nobody has done better with less than Brady has. That’s one of my biggest complaints with Belechick, asides from leaving Brady in late in blowouts. Brady’s first 3 Super Bowl wins his biggest playmakers were Troy Brown, David Givens and Bethel Johnson lol. Please, Put those guys together without Brady and you don’t win a Super Bowl let alone 3
If the players were as bad as you say, it’s one more reason to phrase Belichick. He was able to meld mediocre talent into at least a contender and sometimes a championship team.
If you think the coach does not make a huge difference, you ignoring the “dynasty teams” who won year after year with ever changing rosters. Unlike baseball, you don’t have many franchise players, like Brady, who last for 20 years. Most running backs are finished in four or less.
What devoted Brady fans don't seem to comprehend or simply don't wish to comprehend is that if it wasn't for Bill Belichick coaching Brady up, then Brady would have never come close to the heights he has achieved. Brady has even emphatically stated that.
Would Brady have achieved first ballot Hall of Fame stature under another head coach? I sincerely doubt it.
Would Belichick have won as many Super Bowls without Tom Brady? That is entirely possible.
The interesting hypothesis is would Belichick have won more Super Bowls with a superior athletic talent such as Marino or Elway? We shall never know for sure, but in my opinion it is plausible.
How about this hypothesis. Had Belichick given Brady more talent over the years on the offensive side of the ball how many more Super Bowls would they have won? That’s entirely plausible as well. Bill Coaching Brady up? That’s ridiculous, your acting like he was his personal QB Coach. Either way I get it, Nobody wants to give Brady the credit he really deserves, the guy has done more than any other PLAYER in the history of the NFL and people want to take away credit from him. I’ve heard it all and it’s always the same tired stuff. Again making the throws and reacting to defensive adjustments during live play and exploiting it is entirely done by the QB
I actually give Brady a lot of credit. Most NFL quarterbacks when they get to the league are prima donnas. They are idolized in high school, they are idolized in college, then they sign a fat NFL contract and too many of them are so full of themselves it isn't even funny. But not Tom Brady.
Brady from day one showed an extraordinary ability to absorb the genius of the teachings of Bill Belichick. I give Brady a ton of credit for doing that, checking his ego at the stadium door, executing the game plan which includes audible strategies, all of which has propelled him into consideration for GOAT quarterback.
My premise is if Brady would have been drafted by the usual NFL dead head coach, he would have likely developed bad habits, which would have been terribly detrimental to his career. Likely, Brady would be out of the league by now with no rings.
Belichick with or without Brady would have won Super Bowls for the Patriots, and that shouldn't even be debatable. In my view that's not denigrating Brady, but simply exemplifying the pure genius of Bill Belichick.
Anyone who doesn't fully understand that Belichick is a stone cold genius, really doesn't understand the game of football. Which is one reason why in my opinion, that Bill Belichick is the NFL head coach GOAT.
... nobody wants to give Brady the credit he deserves ...
No, I didn’t say that. He might be the greatest of all quarterbacks, but without the personnel selections, coaching and play calling, he wouldn’t have succeed. It’s hard to pick out the great quarterback who never made it because of poor coaching or players around him. If he didn’t have a decent offense line in front of him, he probably spent most of his career on Injuryed Reserve, or never got the time to throw many great passes.
Football might be the least likely sport that could be a one man game. It takes a team to succeed.
I’m not accusing you of saying or thinking that it was more of in general when this topic comes up.
@BillJones said:
Brady is great, but he would nothing if he didn’t have a supporting cast around him. Despite consistently low draft picks and many personnel changes, the Patriots have been competitive and often champions year after year. It takes coaching and importantly, great personnel decisions to do that.
Look at the 49ers quarterback who getting lots of headlines. Belichick picked him. During Brady’s suspension, one commentator made the comment that the Belichick could put a helmet on a mop, send it out to play quarterback and still win. That was almost true. In the one game the Pats lost of the four, the third string quarterback had an injured thumb on his throwing hand and could barely hold the ball, let alone throw it. The Patriots got shutout in that game.
Belichick is the key to the Patriots success. When he retires, the Pats will need a great replacement, of things will go back to the 1980s.
Supporting cast around him? Are you kidding me? Before Welker, Moss and Gronk came to town nobody has done better with less than Brady has. That’s one of my biggest complaints with Belechick, asides from leaving Brady in late in blowouts. Brady’s first 3 Super Bowl wins his biggest playmakers were Troy Brown, David Givens and Bethel Johnson lol. Please, Put those guys together without Brady and you don’t win a Super Bowl let alone 3
If the players were as bad as you say, it’s one more reason to phrase Belichick. He was able to meld mediocre talent into at least a contender and sometimes a championship team.
If you think the coach does not make a huge difference, you ignoring the “dynasty teams” who won year after year with ever changing rosters. Unlike baseball, you don’t have many franchise players, like Brady, who last for 20 years. Most running backs are finished in four or less.
What devoted Brady fans don't seem to comprehend or simply don't wish to comprehend is that if it wasn't for Bill Belichick coaching Brady up, then Brady would have never come close to the heights he has achieved. Brady has even emphatically stated that.
Would Brady have achieved first ballot Hall of Fame stature under another head coach? I sincerely doubt it.
Would Belichick have won as many Super Bowls without Tom Brady? That is entirely possible.
The interesting hypothesis is would Belichick have won more Super Bowls with a superior athletic talent such as Marino or Elway? We shall never know for sure, but in my opinion it is plausible.
How about this hypothesis. Had Belichick given Brady more talent over the years on the offensive side of the ball how many more Super Bowls would they have won? That’s entirely plausible as well. Bill Coaching Brady up? That’s ridiculous, your acting like he was his personal QB Coach. Either way I get it, Nobody wants to give Brady the credit he really deserves, the guy has done more than any other PLAYER in the history of the NFL and people want to take away credit from him. I’ve heard it all and it’s always the same tired stuff. Again making the throws and reacting to defensive adjustments during live play and exploiting it is entirely done by the QB
I actually give Brady a lot of credit. Most NFL quarterbacks when they get to the league are prima donnas. They are idolized in high school, they are idolized in college, then they sign a fat NFL contract and too many of them are so full of themselves it isn't even funny. But not Tom Brady.
Brady from day one showed an extraordinary ability to absorb the genius of the teachings of Bill Belichick. I give Brady a ton of credit for doing that, checking his ego at the stadium door, executing the game plan which includes audible strategies, all of which has propelled him into consideration for GOAT quarterback.
My premise is if Brady would have been drafted by the usual NFL dead head coach, he would have likely developed bad habits, which would have been terribly detrimental to his career. Likely, Brady would be out of the league by now with no rings.
Belichick with or without Brady would have won Super Bowls for the Patriots, and that shouldn't even be debatable. In my view that's not denigrating Brady, but simply exemplifying the pure genius of Bill Belichick.
Anyone who doesn't fully understand that Belichick is a stone cold genius, really doesn't understand the game of football. Which is one reason why in my opinion, that Bill Belichick is the NFL head coach GOAT.
Again Steve, I get what your saying. We both have been very consistent with our opinions on this and I understand where your coming from but where I get frustrated is you saying that Belichick would have won a Super Bowl or multiple Super Bowls without Brady and Brady would not have won one had he been drafted by an idiot coach, that’s fine if you think that but it’s certainly an open case and very debatable.
And again if he was such a genius Gronk would not have been hurt on a meaningless extra point attempt late in the 4th quarter when the Pats already punched their ticket to the Super Bowl in 2011. He also would have managed the game better when he got beat by the Jets in that Divisional Playoff game years ago like when he was down 2 scores in the 4th and kept doing draw plays with Danny Woodhead, he also would have played Malcolm Butler against your Eagles in the Super Bowl rather than watch his replacement get torched over and over again.
<<< Gronk would not have been hurt on a meaningless extra point attempt >>>
I completely and totally agree with ya on this one.
Doug Pederson does the same damn thing with Wentz for the most part and i just don't comprehend it at all. In my opinion, Pederson's penchant for doing this may very well have led to some of Wentz's injuries.
Frankly, once a game is well in hand, it makes no sense at all to me to play any of the starters. I realize the run up scores may win some of the tie breakers come playoff time. But in the rare event of needing that, is it worth possibly getting key players injured? Not to me.
@stevek said:
<<< Gronk would not have been hurt on a meaningless extra point attempt >>>
I completely and totally agree with ya on this one.
Doug Pederson does the same damn thing with Wentz for the most part and i just don't comprehend it at all. In my opinion, Pederson's penchant for doing this may very well have led to some of Wentz's injuries.
Frankly, once a game is well in hand, it makes no sense at all to me to play any of the starters. I realize the run up scores may win some of the tie breakers come playoff time. But in the rare event of needing that, is it worth possibly getting key players injured? Not to me.
It’s been a staple in Big Bills stubborn mind year after year.
@stevek said:
<<< Gronk would not have been hurt on a meaningless extra point attempt >>>
I completely and totally agree with ya on this one.
Doug Pederson does the same damn thing with Wentz for the most part and i just don't comprehend it at all. In my opinion, Pederson's penchant for doing this may very well have led to some of Wentz's injuries.
Frankly, once a game is well in hand, it makes no sense at all to me to play any of the starters. I realize the run up scores may win some of the tie breakers come playoff time. But in the rare event of needing that, is it worth possibly getting key players injured? Not to me.
It’s been a staple in Big Bills stubborn mind year after year.
Playing a 42 year old QB in almost every snap this season, when the Patriots clearly had a number of games in hand, is beyond my comprehension. It just seems so foolish.
@stevek said:
<<< Gronk would not have been hurt on a meaningless extra point attempt >>>
I completely and totally agree with ya on this one.
Doug Pederson does the same damn thing with Wentz for the most part and i just don't comprehend it at all. In my opinion, Pederson's penchant for doing this may very well have led to some of Wentz's injuries.
Frankly, once a game is well in hand, it makes no sense at all to me to play any of the starters. I realize the run up scores may win some of the tie breakers come playoff time. But in the rare event of needing that, is it worth possibly getting key players injured? Not to me.
It’s been a staple in Big Bills stubborn mind year after year.
Playing a 42 year old QB in almost every snap this season, when the Patriots clearly had a number of games in hand, is beyond my comprehension. It just seems so foolish.
See that, now you've got me bashing Belichick.
It’s insane that more people don’t question it! I’m mean like announcers and reporters after the game, it’s just been an accepted practice with Big Bill. Glad we agree on that 👍
@galaxy27 said:
leaving my best players in the game when the outcome has long since been decided? omg that is a brilliant tactical move.
-matt nagy
I agree. I have never understood that.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I never feel like I have to choose Brady or Belichick as being the most responsible for this run. I commented earlier about my opinions on Brady. If I had to say it was more one than the other, I'd choose him.
But the sum of what we have seen seen from this team and these two men has only been achieved by their collaboration. They are both doing things previously unknown and not thought of.
Brady has been doing this for so long that some of his greatness has perhaps been forgotten. He has had TWO hall of fame worthy careers in all reality.
@thisistheshow said:
I never feel like I have to choose Brady or Belichick as being the most responsible for this run. I commented earlier about my opinions on Brady. If I had to say it was more one than the other, I'd choose him.
But the sum of what we have seen seen from this team and these two men has only been achieved by their collaboration. They are both doing things previously unknown and not thought of.
Brady has been doing this for so long that some of his greatness has perhaps been forgotten. He has had TWO hall of fame worthy careers in all reality.
I don’t remember the year, but Brady was hurt in the second game of the season and was out for the duration. Despite that the Pats went 11 and 5. They didn’t make the playoffs because of the flukey way the schedule worked and were only the second team to have 11 wins and not make it. Who was in charge that year with “the franchise” out of action? Belichick.
I have already covered year when Brady was suspended for four games. The Pats won three of those game . They would have probably won all four if both backup quarterbacks had not been injured.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
I don’t remember the year, but Brady was hurt in the second game of the season and was out for the duration. Despite that the Pats went 11 and 5. They didn’t make the playoffs because of the flukey way the schedule worked and were only the second team to have 11 wins and not make it. Who was in charge that year with “the franchise” out of action? Belichick.
I have already covered year when Brady was suspended for four games. The Pats won three of those game . They would have probably won all four if both backup quarterbacks had not been injured.
2008 was the year, it was a shame too since they basically had the same team as 2007. Those years from 2006-20011 were a huge disappointment, I’m still amazed they couldn’t sneak in a Super Bowl victory during that time frame
@BillJones said:
I don’t remember the year, but Brady was hurt in the second game of the season and was out for the duration. Despite that the Pats went 11 and 5. They didn’t make the playoffs because of the flukey way the schedule worked and were only the second team to have 11 wins and not make it. Who was in charge that year with “the franchise” out of action? Belichick.
I have already covered year when Brady was suspended for four games. The Pats won three of those game . They would have probably won all four if both backup quarterbacks had not been injured.
Not many are saying that Brady isn't a great quarterback, and i doubt if many are saying that Belichick isn't a great coach. To me they clearly are both great.
However in my view, Belichick is a much greater coach, than Brady is a quarterback...if that makes any sense.
I don't mind some fans calling Brady the GOAT, that's fine. It just bothers me that some of these same fans won't acknowledge the sheer genius of Bill Belichick. Frankly, Belichick impresses me more and more with each passing day.
Belichick in a way reminds me of the famous WW2 general George Patton. Arguably one of the best America has ever had. Patton's troops didn't particularly like him, but they would fight tooth and nail for him. And Patton rarely got outsmarted on the battlefield by the enemy, same as Belichick rarely gets outsmarted by any other coach.
The only fans who should bashing Belichick are those who are rooting for other teams.
Any Patriots' fan who bashing him is crazy or totally uninformed. If you think that the coaching and player selection functions are unimportant, I would suggest that you look at the record of Rich Kotie. He led the Eagles and and Jets to the bottom in successive seasons.
Patriot fans might well remember Rod Rust. He couldn't get a play started from scrimmage without a procedure penalty by the 12 game of the season. I think his team went 1-15.
The coaching and General Manager functions are THE KEY to any great sports organization. It is especially important in football because the personnel has to change so quickly, especially in mid season with all of the injuries.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I stand by every negative thing I’ve said about Belichick and you WILL NOT find a bigger Pats fan than me, it’s not even remotely debatable either, that is a fact.
Comments
to answer the Belichick/Brady "who made who" question I would ask what was Belichick's record without Brady as his Quarterback?? keep in mind I am just now getting accustomed to something strange: being able to publicly acknowledge the greatness of Brady, the prowess of Belichick and the almost two decades-long Dynasty of the New England Patriots.
guys like erikthered and perkdog have made it difficult and humbling!!
Belichick was OK as a HC in Cleveland and probably would have had a fine, long, successful career there if the fans and media hadn't hounded him. such is pro-Sports here. more tutelage with his mentor got him to the Pat's where he had a rocky start until..............................Tom Brady rode to the rescue and led the Team to the Super Bowl victory over none other than the Cleveland/L.A./St. Louis Rams. the rest is history.
I think it would be poetic justice and the kind of storybook end to a fabulous career that Legends are made of if Tom Brady were to close things out with another Super Bowl victory against the Cleveland/L.A./St. Louis/L.A. Rams.
Bill Belichick would most probably continue but I think in a few seasons we would know "who made who" and the argument could be settled.
I honestly think if Brady wins #6 two weeks from now he's absolutely coming back to go after #7. He wants to own everything.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Well if those questions are to be asked then the following should be asked as well.
I think we've all seen the pre-draft workout videos of Tom Brady. Which from what I've read and seen were some of the worst physical examples of these workouts of a QB ever. Which is why Brady was a sixth round draft pick, and who knows how much lower he may have gone if the Patriots weren't interested in him.
The interesting question is what could Belichick have achieved with a QB with the physical skills of a Dan Marino or John Elway?
Here is my take on the overall premise. Belichick would have achieved greatness without Brady, but Brady would not have achieved greatness without Belichick. In my opinion, it's really not debatable...and Brady himself has basically clearly stated exactly that.
That being said, the match of those two was simply lightening in a bottle. Without question, Brady is one of the smartest football players of all time, and one of the most coachable players of all time. Brady likely absorbed and learned from Belichick better than any other quarterback could do.
The interesting scenario is that the chemistry that occurred would probably not have happened with perhaps any other QB, to the degree that it has with Brady because of Brady's unique personality. Absolutely a perfect fit with Bill Belichick.
I think that say a Belichick-Marino or a Belichick-Elway pairing, would not have been as successful as the Belichick-Brady pairing. Brady fully absorbs the Belichick genius, and takes those ideas out to the playing field, which i doubt that any other QB could do nearly as well.
So yes, the two needed each other to achieve this most amazing, remarkable, phenomenal of runs for an American team sport. I realize the Yankees had some amazing runs as well, and some NBA teams, but not under the same restrictions and roadblocks to long term winning compared to a current era NFL football team for reasons previously mentioned, and it's not even close.
Bill is the greatest coach ever
Brady is the greatest QB ever
No one made anybody. No one carried anybody
At the end of the day the players make the plays and the coaches put the players in the best position to make them.
Brady is like a coach on the field. The way he checked out of plays in the second half/OT and putting a guy in motion in short yardage situations was masterful
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sure hasn't been many posts in this thread lately.
I guess at 7-0, all is quiet on the Bill Belichick bashing front.
Just waiting until Brady leaves at the end of the season to continue: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/patriots-tom-brady-leave-new-england-2020
Bob Kraft keeps things humming.
Pasted:
This offseason, Brady signed a two-year extension with the Patriots. So what’s the big deal? Well, the extension voids in 2020. Unless the Patriots and Brady put together another pact, Brady will be a free agent this offseason. There’s plenty of time to revise the contract. But it should be nerve-wracking for New England fans that, for the first time in his career, Brady is playing on the final year of his contract. The contract also presents the Patriots from placing the franchise tag on him.
Here’s what Brady had to say on WEEI in August about these stipulations, which create increased uncertainty for his future:
“Beyond this year, whether it is signing for five more years, or signing a franchise tag, or not playing — none of those things need to be decided this year. I think what it was was focusing on this season and being in the right mental, emotional frame of mind to go out there and perform at my highest level.”
Speaking for myself I’m not wracking my nerves thinking about what Brady is doing next year whatsoever. If he retires then off to the next chapter, if he resigns then that’s great but I highly doubt he will ever wear another uniform outside of a Patriots one
Not going to even read the comments on this post as most of you just wish he was your teams coach. I'm glad he is mine.
That wasn't the point of the thread. The point was Patriots fans who bash Bill Belichick and don't give Belichick the full credit that he deserves.
These Patriots fans who believe that Tom Brady is the major reason for the Patriots run of success, and not Bill Belichick. Patriots fans who nitpick every mistake Belichick makes, but when Brady under performs they give him a pass.
Belichick is great, Brady is great, it would be silly to deny that, and no Patriots fan does. I just think that because of the greatness of Tom Brady, some Patriots fans, and it could be many, don't give Belichick the full credit that he deserves.
In my opinion Tom Brady is a great football player, but Bill Belichick is the Albert Einstein of modern day football and the NFL head coach GOAT. I'd be sure that a number of Patriots fans would probably disagree with Belichick being the GOAT.
When Brady retires, there will be a lot of sadness in New England. When Belichick retires it won't be good riddance, but i think it will be in New England that almost nobody cares...and in my view that is wrong.
Wrong i tell ya!
I am just sick and tired of everyone bashing B & B all the time and do not even read posts about them anymore as they are irrelevant in my opinion.
There is an official Bill Belichick Bashing Fan Club located in Boston. Perkdog will deny this, but i think he started the club.
I can understand perhaps a few of their points, but their demand that Kraft replace Belichick with Steve Spurrier is taking it a bit too far.
Well if anything I like to think my “Bashing” of Steve’s Favorite Coach is warranted. I will say that it’s a reasonable argument for someone to say that Belichick deserves as much credit as Brady for the Patriots success although I will never back down that Brady is the #1 reason however everything I’ve said about Belichick is factual as far as his mistakes that he has made, and has probably held back the Patriots from another ring or two. I bash him when it’s deserved and praise him as well
Yes, Belichick has won six Super Bowls for the Patriots but it's absolutely disgraceful, he should be ashamed, and needs to be tied to the whipping post and given at least a dozen lashes for not winning one or two more.
Whether Belichick will be made to walk the plank in the Boston Harbor is another matter under consideration that is posted in bold type on that website.
Brady is great, but he would nothing if he didn’t have a supporting cast around him. Despite consistently low draft picks and many personnel changes, the Patriots have been competitive and often champions year after year. It takes coaching and importantly, great personnel decisions to do that.
Look at the 49ers quarterback who getting lots of headlines. Belichick picked him. During Brady’s suspension, one commentator made the comment that the Belichick could put a helmet on a mop, send it out to play quarterback and still win. That was almost true. In the one game the Pats lost of the four, the third string quarterback had an injured thumb on his throwing hand and could barely hold the ball, let alone throw it. The Patriots got shutout in that game.
Belichick is the key to the Patriots success. When he retires, the Pats will need a great replacement, of things will go back to the 1980s.
Supporting cast around him? Are you kidding me? Before Welker, Moss and Gronk came to town nobody has done better with less than Brady has. That’s one of my biggest complaints with Belechick, asides from leaving Brady in late in blowouts. Brady’s first 3 Super Bowl wins his biggest playmakers were Troy Brown, David Givens and Bethel Johnson lol. Please, Put those guys together without Brady and you don’t win a Super Bowl let alone 3
That amazing supporting cast this year features two tight ends not even on the roster a week ago and Julian Edelman.
And they still scored 30+ on the Jets.
It was the Jets, not yet on the Eagles 😉
Hmm...when I look at my comment now,, it says Jets. You must've misquoted me
Same idea, regardless. He had a college QB and a bunch of castoffs at receiver and they still dominated.
100% agreed on the castoff part 😂👍👍
What we are seeing with Belichick and Brady has never been seen before.
Usually coaches are fired. QBs get hurt or aren't given the chance to develop. This is a truly unique situation.
Admittedly, BB and Ernie Adams are master craftsmen. But they never could have made it happen without Tom Brady. He brought the intangibles, psychology, willingness to be coached, desire to keep improving even though he is being told he's the best, long-term career plan melded with yearly goals. Perfect storm.
It will never happen again. It was fate.
And yet, still, Tom Brady willed it to happen.
If anyone doesn't know it, look up the story about what the rookie Brady said to Bob Kraft, " I'm the best decision this organization has ever made. "
I’m glad someone else besides me can at least understand
Unfortunately many fans aren’t aware of some of the changes in the game. Salary cap/free agency in 1994 implemented to prevent dynasties (70’s Steelers, 80’s 49ers, 90’s Cowboys). Giving every team the same dollars to spend on salaries and allowing worst teams to select the best players from the draft sets up parity in the league. MLB has no salary cap and NBA players dictate where they will play, not in the NFL. What we have witnessed over the last 20 years is historic and most likely will never be duplicated. Fans that dispute this are either biased or don’t understand the league.
I will stick with the Cowboys, but will admit that the Pat's have a slight edge on history right now. And unless we start getting better the distance will widen. But hey it is what it is. I hate haters!
If the players were as bad as you say, it’s one more reason to phrase Belichick. He was able to meld mediocre talent into at least a contender and sometimes a championship team.
If you think the coach does not make a huge difference, you ignoring the “dynasty teams” who won year after year with ever changing rosters. Unlike baseball, you don’t have many franchise players, like Brady, who last for 20 years. Most running backs are finished in four or less.
Belichick does not throw the ball, he doesn’t draw up the plays or audible at the line, he picks players that buy into his regime. If you think the cast of WR’s I mentioned would have gotten it done with another QB under Belichick then Ofcourse that’s your opinion and your entitled to it I just disagree. Bill won ZERO Super Bowls without Brady, he he didn’t even plan on playing him until he had no choice when Bledsoe went down. If you can honestly say the Pats would have been as successful without Brady then I’m saying I absolutely disagree.
With your parakeets at 4-4, I'd think you could be more creative than this crap. Worry about your Philly stuff, Boston is in great shape.
Soon commeth November 17th!!
What devoted Brady fans don't seem to comprehend or simply don't wish to comprehend is that if it wasn't for Bill Belichick coaching Brady up, then Brady would have never come close to the heights he has achieved. Brady has even emphatically stated that.
Would Brady have achieved first ballot Hall of Fame stature under another head coach? I sincerely doubt it.
Would Belichick have won as many Super Bowls without Tom Brady? That is entirely possible.
The interesting hypothesis is would Belichick have won more Super Bowls with a superior athletic talent such as Marino or Elway? We shall never know for sure, but in my opinion it is plausible.
If DeSean Jackson comes back, that game is setting up nicely for an Eagles win. Without Jackson, it may be a tough task for the Eagles, but i'm expecting him to be back.
Eagles will be coming off a bye week, so being fresh will help as well in that game considering the Eagles injury situation. Patriots will also be coming off a bye week, but i think the bye favors the Eagles more.
Playing at the Linc will also help the Eagles. The Patriots will probably be around a 3 to 4 point favorite. But right now, unless something drastic happens, i'm calling for an Eagles win.
How about this hypothesis. Had Belichick given Brady more talent over the years on the offensive side of the ball how many more Super Bowls would they have won? That’s entirely plausible as well. Bill Coaching Brady up? That’s ridiculous, your acting like he was his personal QB Coach. Either way I get it, Nobody wants to give Brady the credit he really deserves, the guy has done more than any other PLAYER in the history of the NFL and people want to take away credit from him. I’ve heard it all and it’s always the same tired stuff. Again making the throws and reacting to defensive adjustments during live play and exploiting it is entirely done by the QB
No, I didn’t say that. He might be the greatest of all quarterbacks, but without the personnel selections, coaching and play calling, he wouldn’t have succeed. It’s hard to pick out the great quarterback who never made it because of poor coaching or players around him. If he didn’t have a decent offense line in front of him, he probably spent most of his career on Injuryed Reserve, or never got the time to throw many great passes.
Football might be the least likely sport that could be a one man game. It takes a team to succeed.
I actually give Brady a lot of credit. Most NFL quarterbacks when they get to the league are prima donnas. They are idolized in high school, they are idolized in college, then they sign a fat NFL contract and too many of them are so full of themselves it isn't even funny. But not Tom Brady.
Brady from day one showed an extraordinary ability to absorb the genius of the teachings of Bill Belichick. I give Brady a ton of credit for doing that, checking his ego at the stadium door, executing the game plan which includes audible strategies, all of which has propelled him into consideration for GOAT quarterback.
My premise is if Brady would have been drafted by the usual NFL dead head coach, he would have likely developed bad habits, which would have been terribly detrimental to his career. Likely, Brady would be out of the league by now with no rings.
Belichick with or without Brady would have won Super Bowls for the Patriots, and that shouldn't even be debatable. In my view that's not denigrating Brady, but simply exemplifying the pure genius of Bill Belichick.
Anyone who doesn't fully understand that Belichick is a stone cold genius, really doesn't understand the game of football. Which is one reason why in my opinion, that Bill Belichick is the NFL head coach GOAT.
I’m not accusing you of saying or thinking that it was more of in general when this topic comes up.
Again Steve, I get what your saying. We both have been very consistent with our opinions on this and I understand where your coming from but where I get frustrated is you saying that Belichick would have won a Super Bowl or multiple Super Bowls without Brady and Brady would not have won one had he been drafted by an idiot coach, that’s fine if you think that but it’s certainly an open case and very debatable.
And again if he was such a genius Gronk would not have been hurt on a meaningless extra point attempt late in the 4th quarter when the Pats already punched their ticket to the Super Bowl in 2011. He also would have managed the game better when he got beat by the Jets in that Divisional Playoff game years ago like when he was down 2 scores in the 4th and kept doing draw plays with Danny Woodhead, he also would have played Malcolm Butler against your Eagles in the Super Bowl rather than watch his replacement get torched over and over again.
<<< Gronk would not have been hurt on a meaningless extra point attempt >>>
I completely and totally agree with ya on this one.
Doug Pederson does the same damn thing with Wentz for the most part and i just don't comprehend it at all. In my opinion, Pederson's penchant for doing this may very well have led to some of Wentz's injuries.
Frankly, once a game is well in hand, it makes no sense at all to me to play any of the starters. I realize the run up scores may win some of the tie breakers come playoff time. But in the rare event of needing that, is it worth possibly getting key players injured? Not to me.
It’s been a staple in Big Bills stubborn mind year after year.
Playing a 42 year old QB in almost every snap this season, when the Patriots clearly had a number of games in hand, is beyond my comprehension. It just seems so foolish.
See that, now you've got me bashing Belichick.
It’s insane that more people don’t question it! I’m mean like announcers and reporters after the game, it’s just been an accepted practice with Big Bill. Glad we agree on that 👍
leaving my best players in the game when the outcome has long since been decided? omg that is a brilliant tactical move.
-matt nagy
I agree. I have never understood that.
I never feel like I have to choose Brady or Belichick as being the most responsible for this run. I commented earlier about my opinions on Brady. If I had to say it was more one than the other, I'd choose him.
But the sum of what we have seen seen from this team and these two men has only been achieved by their collaboration. They are both doing things previously unknown and not thought of.
Brady has been doing this for so long that some of his greatness has perhaps been forgotten. He has had TWO hall of fame worthy careers in all reality.
Very good post 👍
I don’t remember the year, but Brady was hurt in the second game of the season and was out for the duration. Despite that the Pats went 11 and 5. They didn’t make the playoffs because of the flukey way the schedule worked and were only the second team to have 11 wins and not make it. Who was in charge that year with “the franchise” out of action? Belichick.
I have already covered year when Brady was suspended for four games. The Pats won three of those game . They would have probably won all four if both backup quarterbacks had not been injured.
2008 was the year, it was a shame too since they basically had the same team as 2007. Those years from 2006-20011 were a huge disappointment, I’m still amazed they couldn’t sneak in a Super Bowl victory during that time frame
Not many are saying that Brady isn't a great quarterback, and i doubt if many are saying that Belichick isn't a great coach. To me they clearly are both great.
However in my view, Belichick is a much greater coach, than Brady is a quarterback...if that makes any sense.
I don't mind some fans calling Brady the GOAT, that's fine. It just bothers me that some of these same fans won't acknowledge the sheer genius of Bill Belichick. Frankly, Belichick impresses me more and more with each passing day.
Belichick in a way reminds me of the famous WW2 general George Patton. Arguably one of the best America has ever had. Patton's troops didn't particularly like him, but they would fight tooth and nail for him. And Patton rarely got outsmarted on the battlefield by the enemy, same as Belichick rarely gets outsmarted by any other coach.
The only fans who should bashing Belichick are those who are rooting for other teams.
Any Patriots' fan who bashing him is crazy or totally uninformed. If you think that the coaching and player selection functions are unimportant, I would suggest that you look at the record of Rich Kotie. He led the Eagles and and Jets to the bottom in successive seasons.
Patriot fans might well remember Rod Rust. He couldn't get a play started from scrimmage without a procedure penalty by the 12 game of the season. I think his team went 1-15.
The coaching and General Manager functions are THE KEY to any great sports organization. It is especially important in football because the personnel has to change so quickly, especially in mid season with all of the injuries.
I stand by every negative thing I’ve said about Belichick and you WILL NOT find a bigger Pats fan than me, it’s not even remotely debatable either, that is a fact.