CAC and plus graded coins....
davids5104
Posts: 805 ✭✭✭✭
I am sorry if this has been discussed. I searched for this and could not find any posts...
CAC and plus graded coins seems unnecessary. Am I confused? They ignore plus grades on their evaluation, so.....
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LOL. This has been discussed 916,543 times on these boards since I've been a member.
Fortunately, each time we discuss it there is always perfect agreement on why things are as they are.
It turns out that the TPGs and CAC each have their own business model and they don't really care what a single collectors (you or me) think. I imagine the TPGs created the plus because their internal research showed that it would be profitable to do so. I imagine that CAC doesn't pay attention to the plus because it doesn't really add to their business model. I don't think it's more complicated than that.
Are you assuming that CAC would automatically agree with the plus without seeing the coin?
i guess my search was too specific and i just searched CAC, but too many results followed...
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If you're a CAC believer, it still is necessary because as discussed in these 916k threads, we have many real life examples of + graded coins not getting a bean....
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
Where did you come up with this? CAC sees the coin already graded. If they agree with its grade (plus/star or not on the label) they bean it. Am I wrong?
It's a question for the OP.
A curious situation. Is the coin PQ then?
Plus graded coins worth more than non plus (coin facts). One I owned definitely an A coin for sure - marked up over cost accordingly as it super PQ. It sold quickly.
The sticker just means he thinks it’s an a or b coin. You can draw your own conclusions. Never had one w both most likely would just markup cost plus.
Analogy - From the den noticing movement I saw Anna at a beach house two doors down on a platform deck where I was staying leading a get together of about 2 dozen girls (Chio’s? - seemed selected for quality) ready hit the water then relax on the beach in exercise get together / team building. What a rare incident I thought what are the odds? Even from that distance - Like a bright star in a cluster, she stood out from the group in a very impressive way. While my 10 power binocs led me to believe she wb the one and fit type looking for I consulted my fraternity brother Bill a couple days later over a beer - he gave me some intel plus thinks Anna of Chi O a 5 star girl. In consulting Jake of the APO over at the library he concurs. I then call the Chi Omega house set up my date w Anna.
What u can get for the coin is the extent the buyer considers it high end or PQ not necessarily because of sticker. Unless buyer a neophyte the sticker does no good if buyer not impressed.
Two of four PCGS AU58+ bust half dollars did not sticker in a recent submission. 58+ bust halves are as scarce as hen's teeth.
JA cares less about eye appeal, luster, or clean surfaces than he does about originality. John awards stickers to coins he perceives as not conserved. Of course they need to be otherwise solid for the grade.
I was bummed they didn't get his approval. But I understand his taste. I am thankful the market is more openminded.
Lance.
I collect coins and a few other things... I do not seek the approval of other people - they are my interests and my responsibility, so I do the research. Some of my coin choices (perhaps many) would not gain stars, plus's or stickers...Just as acquisitions in my other areas of interest may not be what is considered 'the best'..... People are concerned about the approval of others far too much .... That being said, if such approval provides profit in a business, well, that is different. Cheers, RickO
FWIW, JA has said, more or less, that CAC ignores the plus signs because there are limits on how precise grading can reliably be, and plus signs take us beyond those limits.
I tend to agree but I’ll add that I think there are some coins that would obviously qualify for a plus. On the other hand, there are far more marginal calls that probably don’t do much but muddy the waters and enhance the TPG’s bottom line.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don’t care what CAC thinks about plus signs. Plus signs show that PCGS recognizes the coin is PQ, high end for the grade and is valued accordingly. TPG grade the winning hand.
Ike I would not let what JA supposedly thinks bother me. Your AU58 plus coins are PQ and I would go with PCGS for valuation plus he would never again get a dime of my money. Yes no joke AU58 plus bust halves super scarce.
Slider Bust Halves may be scarce but many more are lurking in mint state holders. Somebody just needs to cull them out and get them in the properly graded holders. Beware of non CAC slider Bust Halves.
Agree, and true technical Uncirculated coins by the "old" standard are IMPOSSIBLE to find BUT THEY ARE OUT THERE.
Credit where it is due Dept: I've only seen ONE professional numismatist - Laura, echo this fact in print years ago when she explained somewhere that truly Uncirculated Bust halves are Rare.
@Cougar1978 wrote:
Analogy - From the den noticing movement I saw Anna at a beach house two doors down on a platform deck where I was staying leading a get together of about 2 dozen girls (Chio’s? - seemed selected for quality) ready hit the water then relax on the beach in exercise get together / team building. What a rare incident I thought what are the odds? Even from that distance - Like a bright star in a cluster, she stood out from the group in a very impressive way. While my 10 power binocs led me to believe she wb the one and fit type looking for I consulted my fraternity brother Bill a couple days later over a beer - he gave me some intel plus thinks Anna of Chi O a 5 star girl. In consulting Jake of the APO over at the library he concurs. I then call the Chi Omega house set up my date w Anna.
Another analogy - While 10X is pretty good, the cost of 20X80 binoculars has gone down so much from when I bought mine that anyone with a house on the beach should have a pair. Then you would have been able to judge Anna for yourself. It is just like viewing a coin with both eyes and proper lighting using a stereomicroscope.
Thanks I will go shopping for a pair.
I searched the topics on CAC website coin forum and did not find anything on the subject.
That is because CAC does not sponsor a forum. They also do not publish a list of coins that have been evaluated and have failed. They also will not grade and slab a coin for you.
The business model is parasitic and requires that you first send your coin to quality TPG's PCGS or NGC to be graded.
EOM
The winning hand will be determined by the coins, not by plastic and stickers. Good luck.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I have plus graded coins that have CAC stickers. Even though the plus is not taken into consideration when granting CAC. They are still a really cool combo.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
The plus ones seem nicer.
Check the link below, about "a warning parable," or the You Tube link here, for the answer to your question
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MHgvgVw-nWU
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Beaned
Did Not Bean
JA prefers that blast-white, dipped look on saints that I can't stand.
I'm into toners so we just don't agree.
PCGS and I often think alike on the plus.
My Saint Set
I know he likes original coins a lot but, in my experiences, he also likes white coins, too, if they're very lustrous. I like both types, myself.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
@Walkerfan said:
I have plus graded coins that have CAC stickers. Even though the plus is not taken into consideration when granting CAC. They are still a really cool combo.
I agree.
PCGS MS65+ CAC Gold
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
ANA LM
LSCC
EAC
FUN
Your impression about what he likes sounds pretty close to dead-wrong to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Where is your registry saint set?
There is a link to mine in my sig line.
Lusterlover did agree with you though
My Saint Set
I always thought the "blast white" descriptor was reserved for silver coins.
Smitten with DBLCs.
I don’t have a set. But I’ve seen enough Saints (with and without CAC stickers) at each grade level, and I worked for John long enough, that I have a pretty good idea regarding his likes and dislikes.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm not sure trying to match experience with Mr. Feld is really the way to make your case here.
Why not?
I already disagree with JA on grading & he is suppose to be like a god.
My Saint Set
So did I, and I certainly never heard it used to describe gold coins before.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Somebody said that?
I don’t believe so, but some people like to use straw-man arguments.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Because, unless your resume is as deep as his, he has much more direct knowledge of JA. And he does work for a giant auction company, so he sees far more coins that most of the rest of us.
Why yes, Bill Jones did!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Here are a couple that I own for this thread:
65+ CAC
64+ CAC
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
blast white!
With or without a plus and/or a sticker, those are two very attractive coins!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Pictures please......
Bean approval is quite a windfall for a coin monger.
Gotta keep pushing that narrative so you can pump them for their last dollar.
Be sure to dog-pile anyone who disagrees.
BTW...What exactly does Mr. Feld do at this auction house?
Does he do the same thing Laura does at hers?
You do realize that I'm a collector that only collects ONE type of coin between 64-66.
It might be harder than you think to trip me up.
My Saint Set
MS64-MS66?
or
1964-1966?
I only own 1 CAC coin. Recently purchased cause I liked the color. 65+
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Who's trying to trip you up? The question was what does JA think. Mr. Feld is much better situated to know than you are. It has nothing to do with the value of CAC or lack thereof
I'm down to less than 60 certified coins now, so I'm surprised to find this.
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
And the patience of a Saint.
We're still talking binoculars here, right?
My only plus coin also happens to be CAC:
My YouTube Channel
What qualifies for a collector's coin verses the more plentiful "run of the mill" coins? A discussion that has not occurred here...........ever.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Nothing. It depends on each collector and what they buy. Some collector coins are worse than “run of the mill” and others are better.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’m putting a Walker set together and my only non-blast-white Walker has a green CAC sticker and I really love the darker gun metal overall tones of it.