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CAC and plus graded coins....

I am sorry if this has been discussed. I searched for this and could not find any posts...
CAC and plus graded coins seems unnecessary. Am I confused? They ignore plus grades on their evaluation, so.....

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Comments

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are you assuming that CAC would automatically agree with the plus without seeing the coin?

  • davids5104davids5104 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    LOL. This has been discussed 916,543 times on these boards since I've been a member. :)

    Fortunately, each time we discuss it there is always perfect agreement on why things are as they are. ;)

    It turns out that the TPGs and CAC each have their own business model and they don't really care what a single collectors (you or me) think. I imagine the TPGs created the plus because their internal research showed that it would be profitable to do so. I imagine that CAC doesn't pay attention to the plus because it doesn't really add to their business model. I don't think it's more complicated than that.

    i guess my search was too specific and i just searched CAC, but too many results followed...

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  • lusterloverlusterlover Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭✭

    If you're a CAC believer, it still is necessary because as discussed in these 916k threads, we have many real life examples of + graded coins not getting a bean....

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:
    Are you assuming that CAC would automatically agree with the plus without seeing the coin?

    Where did you come up with this? CAC sees the coin already graded. If they agree with its grade (plus/star or not on the label) they bean it. Am I wrong?

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a question for the OP.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2019 9:02PM

    A curious situation. Is the coin PQ then?

    Plus graded coins worth more than non plus (coin facts). One I owned definitely an A coin for sure - marked up over cost accordingly as it super PQ. It sold quickly.

    The sticker just means he thinks it’s an a or b coin. You can draw your own conclusions. Never had one w both most likely would just markup cost plus.

    Analogy - From the den noticing movement I saw Anna at a beach house two doors down on a platform deck where I was staying leading a get together of about 2 dozen girls (Chio’s? - seemed selected for quality) ready hit the water then relax on the beach in exercise get together / team building. What a rare incident I thought what are the odds? Even from that distance - Like a bright star in a cluster, she stood out from the group in a very impressive way. While my 10 power binocs led me to believe she wb the one and fit type looking for I consulted my fraternity brother Bill a couple days later over a beer - he gave me some intel plus thinks Anna of Chi O a 5 star girl. In consulting Jake of the APO over at the library he concurs. I then call the Chi Omega house set up my date w Anna.

    What u can get for the coin is the extent the buyer considers it high end or PQ not necessarily because of sticker. Unless buyer a neophyte the sticker does no good if buyer not impressed.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Two of four PCGS AU58+ bust half dollars did not sticker in a recent submission. 58+ bust halves are as scarce as hen's teeth.

    JA cares less about eye appeal, luster, or clean surfaces than he does about originality. John awards stickers to coins he perceives as not conserved. Of course they need to be otherwise solid for the grade.

    I was bummed they didn't get his approval. But I understand his taste. I am thankful the market is more openminded.
    Lance.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019 7:42AM

    I don’t care what CAC thinks about plus signs. Plus signs show that PCGS recognizes the coin is PQ, high end for the grade and is valued accordingly. TPG grade the winning hand.

    Ike I would not let what JA supposedly thinks bother me. Your AU58 plus coins are PQ and I would go with PCGS for valuation plus he would never again get a dime of my money. Yes no joke AU58 plus bust halves super scarce.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 896 ✭✭✭✭

    @lkeigwin said:
    Two of four PCGS AU58+ bust half dollars did not sticker in a recent submission. 58+ bust halves are as scarce as hen's teeth.

    JA cares less about eye appeal, luster, or clean surfaces than he does about originality. John awards stickers to coins he perceives as not conserved. Of course they need to be otherwise solid for the grade.

    I was bummed they didn't get his approval. But I understand his taste. I am thankful the market is more openminded.
    Lance.

    Slider Bust Halves may be scarce but many more are lurking in mint state holders. Somebody just needs to cull them out and get them in the properly graded holders. Beware of non CAC slider Bust Halves.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019 8:17AM

    @lkeigwin said:
    Two of four PCGS AU58+ bust half dollars did not sticker in a recent submission. 58+ bust halves are as scarce as hen's teeth.

    JA cares less about eye appeal, luster, or clean surfaces than he does about originality. John awards stickers to coins he perceives as not conserved. Of course they need to be otherwise solid for the grade.

    I was bummed they didn't get his approval. But I understand his taste. I am thankful the market is more openminded.
    Lance.

    Agree, and true technical Uncirculated coins by the "old" standard are IMPOSSIBLE to find BUT THEY ARE OUT THERE. :)

    Credit where it is due Dept: I've only seen ONE professional numismatist - Laura, echo this fact in print years ago when she explained somewhere that truly Uncirculated Bust halves are Rare.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 wrote:

    Analogy - From the den noticing movement I saw Anna at a beach house two doors down on a platform deck where I was staying leading a get together of about 2 dozen girls (Chio’s? - seemed selected for quality) ready hit the water then relax on the beach in exercise get together / team building. What a rare incident I thought what are the odds? Even from that distance - Like a bright star in a cluster, she stood out from the group in a very impressive way. While my 10 power binocs led me to believe she wb the one and fit type looking for I consulted my fraternity brother Bill a couple days later over a beer - he gave me some intel plus thinks Anna of Chi O a 5 star girl. In consulting Jake of the APO over at the library he concurs. I then call the Chi Omega house set up my date w Anna.

    Another analogy - While 10X is pretty good, the cost of 20X80 binoculars has gone down so much from when I bought mine that anyone with a house on the beach should have a pair. Then you would have been able to judge Anna for yourself. It is just like viewing a coin with both eyes and proper lighting using a stereomicroscope. :)

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks I will go shopping for a pair.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019 10:57AM

    I searched the topics on CAC website coin forum and did not find anything on the subject.

    That is because CAC does not sponsor a forum. They also do not publish a list of coins that have been evaluated and have failed. They also will not grade and slab a coin for you.

    The business model is parasitic and requires that you first send your coin to quality TPG's PCGS or NGC to be graded.

    EOM

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    I don’t care what CAC thinks about plus signs. Plus signs show that PCGS recognizes the coin is PQ, high end for the grade and is valued accordingly. TPG grade the winning hand.

    The winning hand will be determined by the coins, not by plastic and stickers. Good luck.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have plus graded coins that have CAC stickers. Even though the plus is not taken into consideration when granting CAC. They are still a really cool combo.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019 1:27PM

    The plus ones seem nicer.

  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019 11:42AM

    Check the link below, about "a warning parable," or the You Tube link here, for the answer to your question ;)

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=MHgvgVw-nWU

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,441 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beaned

    Did Not Bean


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭✭✭

    JA prefers that blast-white, dipped look on saints that I can't stand.
    I'm into toners so we just don't agree.

    PCGS and I often think alike on the plus.

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know he likes original coins a lot but, in my experiences, he also likes white coins, too, if they're very lustrous. I like both types, myself.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • edwardjulioedwardjulio Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerfan said:
    I have plus graded coins that have CAC stickers. Even though the plus is not taken into consideration when granting CAC. They are still a really cool combo.

    I agree.
    PCGS MS65+ CAC Gold

    End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019 5:00PM

    @MFeld said:
    Your impression about what he likes sounds pretty close to dead-wrong to me.

    Where is your registry saint set?
    There is a link to mine in my sig line.

    Lusterlover did agree with you though :D

  • AotearoaAotearoa Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    JA prefers that blast-white, dipped look on saints that I can't stand.
    I'm into toners so we just don't agree.

    PCGS and I often think alike on the plus.

    I always thought the "blast white" descriptor was reserved for silver coins.

    Smitten with DBLCs.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ReadyFireAim said:

    @MFeld said:
    Your impression about what he likes sounds pretty close to dead-wrong to me.

    Where is your registry saint set?
    There is a link to mine in my sig line.

    Lusterlover did agree with you though :D

    I'm not sure trying to match experience with Mr. Feld is really the way to make your case here.

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019 5:52PM

    @jmlanzaf said:
    I'm not sure trying to match experience with Mr. Feld is really the way to make your case here.

    Why not?
    I already disagree with JA on grading & he is suppose to be like a god.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019 5:55PM

    @Aotearoa said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    JA prefers that blast-white, dipped look on saints that I can't stand.
    I'm into toners so we just don't agree.

    PCGS and I often think alike on the plus.

    I always thought the "blast white" descriptor was reserved for silver coins.

    So did I, and I certainly never heard it used to describe gold coins before.😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    he is suppose to be like a god.

    Somebody said that?

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    he is suppose to be like a god.

    Somebody said that?

    I don’t believe so, but some people like to use straw-man arguments.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ReadyFireAim said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    I'm not sure trying to match experience with Mr. Feld is really the way to make your case here.

    Why not?
    I already disagree with JA on grading & he is suppose to be like a god.

    Because, unless your resume is as deep as his, he has much more direct knowledge of JA. And he does work for a giant auction company, so he sees far more coins that most of the rest of us.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    he is suppose to be like a god.

    Somebody said that?

    @MFeld said:

    @MasonG said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    he is suppose to be like a god.

    Somebody said that?

    I don’t believe so, but some people like to use straw-man arguments.

    Why yes, Bill Jones did! ;)

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert said:
    Here are a couple that I own for this thread:

    65+ CAC

    blast white!

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Because, unless your resume is as deep as his, he has much more direct knowledge of JA. And he does work for a giant >auction company, so he sees far more coins that most of the rest of us.

    Bean approval is quite a windfall for a coin monger.
    Gotta keep pushing that narrative so you can pump them for their last dollar.
    Be sure to dog-pile anyone who disagrees.

    BTW...What exactly does Mr. Feld do at this auction house?
    Does he do the same thing Laura does at hers?

    You do realize that I'm a collector that only collects ONE type of coin between 64-66.
    It might be harder than you think to trip me up.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS64-MS66?
    or
    1964-1966?

  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,159 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I only own 1 CAC coin. Recently purchased cause I liked the color. 65+




    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ReadyFireAim said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Because, unless your resume is as deep as his, he has much more direct knowledge of JA. And he does work for a giant >auction company, so he sees far more coins that most of the rest of us.

    Bean approval is quite a windfall for a coin monger.
    Gotta keep pushing that narrative so you can pump them for their last dollar.
    Be sure to dog-pile anyone who disagrees.

    BTW...What exactly does Mr. Feld do at this auction house?
    Does he do the same thing Laura does at hers?

    You do realize that I'm a collector that only collects ONE type of coin between 64-66.
    It might be harder than you think to trip me up.

    Who's trying to trip you up? The question was what does JA think. Mr. Feld is much better situated to know than you are. It has nothing to do with the value of CAC or lack thereof

  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:

    @MFeld said:
    Your impression about what he likes sounds pretty close to dead-wrong to me.

    Where is your registry saint set?
    There is a link to mine in my sig line.

    Lusterlover did agree with you though :D

    I don’t have a set. But I’ve seen enough Saints (with and without CAC stickers) at each grade level, and I worked for John long enough, that I have a pretty good idea regarding his likes and dislikes.

    And the patience of a Saint.

    LCoopie = Les
  • coinhackcoinhack Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Thanks I will go shopping for a pair.

    We're still talking binoculars here, right? >:)

  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What qualifies for a collector's coin verses the more plentiful "run of the mill" coins? A discussion that has not occurred here...........ever.

    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @leothelyon said:
    What qualifies for a collector's coin verses the more plentiful "run of the mill" coins? A discussion that has not occurred here...........ever.

    Leo

    Nothing. It depends on each collector and what they buy. Some collector coins are worse than “run of the mill” and others are better.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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