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ReadyFireAim Got a CAC on a Saint! Congratulations!!!!
winesteven
Posts: 4,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
I see from a post reply in another thread that @ReadyFireAim received a CAC on one of the Saints he submitted. Congratulations! I'm happy for you. I know the following:
- As of several months ago, you never would have thought that you'd ever submit coins to CAC.
- I understand that you're disappointed that more of your lovely Saints did not CAC.
- Your 1923-D PCGS MS66 Saint that did CAC was your least favorite of your Saints.
- The increase in market value for the one that did CAC is now about $1,000 - $1,500 higher than that same coin without the CAC, so you're well ahead financially regarding all of the $14.50 submission fees you paid. No need for anyone to debate this comment about the increase in market value, as I readily admit that MANY people will not pay that increase in price on a Saint in that grade with a CAC, and that's OK, but there's no doubt that many people will indeed pay that higher price, and there's no doubt in my mind that you (or your heirs) can sell that MS66 Saint with a CAC very quickly and profitably.
Have you completed submitting all of your Saints that you intend to submit?
Again, congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
5
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@winesteven....Your number four is certainly a statement on market realities...Finding a buyer, willing to pay the right price for a coin (read that as profit derived from coin and certs) applies to any coin of collector interest. Cheers, RickO
Is the original thread gone? I was anxious to see the results, but can't find it.
Many posted their favorites out of the group that was submitted. I was hoping to test my preference vs CAC. Trueviews were nice and made it easier.
Congrats RFA
My Gold Type Set
In that original thread, I believe @ReadyFireAim only submitted his five Saints with the highest dates, and unfortunately, none of those stickered. He indicated his original plan was to have a couple of more submissions by date groups, but I don’t know what he ended up actually submitting. As noted in my OP, I read one of his replies in a post that his 1923-D MS66 did indeed sticker, and this was his only success, but he did not say if he submitted all, or just some of his remaining Saints.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Concerning point number 4
If ready aim fire isn’t a dealer he will only pay the $14.50 on the coin that received a CAC sticker. Plus shipping etc. of course. If he’s a dealer of course it’s a different story.
In that original thread, I believe @ReadyFireAim only submitted his five Saints with the highest dates, and unfortunately, none of those stickered
Nailed it
Somewhere in this thread: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12423248#Comment_12423248
I just don’t think he understands what JA is looking for in a 66. The reason I said none would sticker was that the nicer ones all had shiny high points...not what JA wants in a 66.
Perhaps, all coins with shiny high points are really AU58? Or is JA a different grading standard than the ANA Standard? Why can we not have a common grading standard?
I'm withholding judgement until after the 2nd submission.
I just sent the following!
The 23-D was a bean-cross-NGC @ 66 so I'm just doing a re-sticker
The 20 was a recon/bean at 64 that did + (not sending it in for a sticker because it is a keeper)
All above are MS65
But yes...ZERO for five on the first MS66 submission.
No comment yet.
Click my sig for high rez pics
My Saint Set
CAC cashed my check for $92.50 and refunded $0.00
100% failure
My Saint Set
@ReadyFireAim, if your 1920 Saint was originally graded MS64 and had a CAC, and you then sent it back to PCGS for Reconsideration and it was upgraded by PCGS to MS64+, then you should send it back to CAC using a separate submission form for Re-apply with just a $3 fee, and they’ll AUTOMATICALLY reapply the sticker (without having to “requalify” for the bean) since the Cert Number should have remained the same in the Reconsideration process.
Edited: Good news! I just looked at your beautiful set, and the Cert Number for your 1920 MS64+ indeed has remained unchanged and IS currently in CAC’s system as having a CAC. As such, just do as suggested in the prior paragraph, and with NO qualification risk, they’ll automatically reapply the sticker.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Call them. Ask for your credit balance. I’m certain you’ll find you have a credit balance. They only charge for coins that sticker unless you’re a dealer. Good luck with this batch.
Unfortunately I did as well.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Your 65's posted above are nicer than most of the 66's I've been looking at lately. Your 1916-S is my favorite of the group.
My Gold Type Set
On my last two submissions, I too have not been refunded for my coins which didn't sticker. Both times one coin did not sticker. We'll see what happens the third time around.
Congrats on getting a CAC, I like these stickers.
That is because they give you an account credit and their invoice shows exactly what you're charged for. It make sense if you submit regularly, but if you submit 1-2 times a year it doesn't make sense to leave your money (account credit) with CAC. If you don't use your account credit up quickly they will send you a check for the outstanding amount.
@ReadyFireAim will get a check in the mail from CAC if he doesn't submit more coins to them in the near future. Otherwise, he can send in coins with no check and the credit on his account will be used...
First, Saints are not my strong suit. But given that CAC is so influential in the series, is there any spread between PCGS CAC and NGC CAC at a given grade level? Or is the sticker really what matters in terms of premium?
While I have not done an analysis, as a BROAD generalization with PLENTY of exceptions, market values tend to increase in the following order (I truly hope this does not start one of the "much TOO often" debates that will cause our hosts to shut down/remove this post): NGC no CAC; PCGS no CAC; NGC with CAC; PCGS with CAC. Oh boy!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
PCGS and CAC commands a higher price than ngc and cac. The market just views pcgs as tougher in general.
That said, the cac stickered saint market vs not stickered is huge too. I would pay around $2000 for a non stickered coin I was ok with and offer $3500 for a cac'd 1923-d in ms66
Great learning opportunity would be to study pics of CAC saints and compare them to yours. I see one maybe from the above group.
Here is a collection of CAC saints.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/20-gold-major-sets/st-gaudens-20-gold-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1907-1932/publishedset/183666
What do you think?
CAC 1925 MS66
My reject 1925 MS66
CAC 1926 MS66
My reject 1926 MS66
My Saint Set
Beautiful Saints FWIW
My YouTube Channel
I like the look of your coins better in both cases. First thing I look at on Saints is the rays. Banged up rays ruin the flow for me.
My Gold Type Set
Congrats on getting a CAC sticker on your 66 Saint. CAC 66 Saints are truly stunning coins....it’s a very high standard. Non CAC 66 are probably the most overgraded coins out there. I’ve seen piles of them.
I’ve probably bought more 66 CAC than most - I really enjoy handling them.
Wait until you see a 67 CAC Saint - a whole new balllgame.
This is what my MS66 1923-D looked like when I bought it.
The picture was pretty good but not great.
I paid the CAC tax & trusted the sticker.
When I got it, I was a bit disappointed.
3 heavy bag marks on the eagle and 3 on Liberty's left shin. (and some little ticks)
I kept it anyway and now I'm just sending it back to have the sticker put on the new holder.
Here is a TrueView (click pic to enlarge)
Not saying they are bad.
I think people are putting way too much faith in the bean.
My Saint Set
Although really tough to grade a coin from an image, I really do like both images. Nice coin.
The nuances of grading higher end Saints are many, including what you just pointed out, marks on focal points. Keep in mind that is just ONE consideration to an MS66 Saint obtaining CAC approval. From the image your coin has what appears to be three OTHER outstanding characteristics that mostly likely contributed to the CAC approval. The remarkably clean fields for a Saint...especially the left obverse field......you merge that with the WOW luster that is dripping all over the coin, and it just has a great impact. The color, you can certainly SEE that from the image....I love the deep gold brassy look that merges into the wonderful pink the coin has in the center. The coin screams originality.
Respectfully stated, most collectors tend to focus too much on marks on a coin. That is just a component....you also need to factor in luster, originality, strike, color. Perhaps from your post you were suggesting that for the coin to have a CAC sticker the marks you pointed out shouldn't be there. If that was the case, the grade could perhaps be a MS66+ or even a 67, which cost significantly more.
I'd suggest just you look at as many MS66 Saints as possible in person, forget images. Look at PCGS, NGC, CAC, non CAC. Just look at a lot of coins in hand and I will be surprised if you didn't start to conclude that CAC approved coins are solid for their respective grade. A or B coins. Many people may disagree about the so called sticker premium, but its not about the sticker, its about the coin. "Why pay 50% to 75% more for a 66 Saint with a Sticker" people ask. In most cases the coin will be nicer. Of course I do not agree with every CAC sticker! But I do challenge those that say they can find one without a sticker for $2300 (non CAC 66) that is just as nice. I say great, if it is that easy go into the market and pick out all the nice 66 Saints send to CAC and sell to me sight unseen for $3600. The incentives are there! Obviously, Saint collections graded 10, 20 years ago and hav been off market are a different story, but you get my point.
I have looked at thousands of non CAC MS66 Saints and have handled more that most in CAC MS66 and CAC MS67 Saints. If you ever attend a show you will see that you might find one or two 66 CAC Saints at the entire show. Really. I look. I usually have a handful 66 CAC Saints when attending a show and I invite you to look at them and I will point out what I know for what its worth. At the very least you will have a tiny bit more knowledge about a series you love.
I think some folks need to also understand that we all view the glass half full or half empty. As an example take PCGS MS66+ Saints. A CAC example goes for about $5500. Thats about double what a non CAC coin goes for. Crazy huh, double for a sticker! Let me tell you this... I have seen some drop dead gorgeous CAC 66+ Saints that are better than some non CAC PCGS 67 - which is a 12k coin. So instead of thinking you are paying double for a sticker sometime I tend to think I paid $5500 for a coin that barely, barely just misses being a 12k coin. Seems like a better value to me.
Listen, there are great coins in all holders PCGS NGC CAC non CAC. Its all about the coins, but some coins get a little more recognition whether its a plus, star, or sticker, and as collectors that's what we do is pay more for better.
Seth
Well said
Well said Seth. You literally have to look at thousands of Saints in auction boxes to appreciate the differences with in the grade. JA has seen zillions and he liked what he likes and the market hasn’t spoken with their wallets
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I have 18 saints and only 2 have beans.
This is the other one. (1920 64+)
Both have huge luster & noticeably more than the others.
My dirty gold/toners might not be the thing JA likes.
My Saint Set
Saints need not have “huge luster” in order to meet CAC’s standards and plenty of “dirty gold/toners” qualify. In other words, don’t read anything into your extremely small sample of 18 coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I got a sticker!....
Well...Sort of
None of the other 8 CAC failures came with any explanation.
Still looking for the PVC.
(Pics of submitted coins in the 10th post above)
My Saint Set