PNG Offers To Assist Victims Of Coin Doctoring
1630Boston
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PNG Offers To Assist Victims Of Coin Doctoring
This 1916 Philadelphia Mint Winged Liberty dime was doctored to add a Denver mint mark. (Photo courtesy of NGC, the PNG’s official authentication and grading service.)
This 1963-D Roosevelt dime was doctored with recut bands on the torch in a deceptive effort to make them appear to be full bands. (Photo courtesy of NGC, the PNG’s official authentication and grading service.
As part of its on-going efforts to combat "coin doctoring," the Professional Numismatists Guild (www.PNGdealers.org) is urging dealers and collectors to respect the heritage and historical significance of all coinage to preserve the past as best as possible.
PNG also is offering to assist anyone who suspects he or she unwittingly purchased a doctored coin.
"It has often been stated that money is history you can hold in your hands. That history needs to be conserved and maintained, not deceptively altered without full disclosure. We want everyone to carefully preserve the past for all coins and notes," said PNG Executive Director Robert Brueggeman.
"The PNG Code of Ethics is strict about prohibiting our members from selling altered coins without fully disclosing the changes to prospective buyers, and we believe every dealer in the United States should do the same," explained Brueggeman.
"We encourage anyone who suspects they unknowingly purchased a doctored coin from a PNG member, or have knowledge about coin doctoring operations by a PNG member, to submit a formal complaint to PNG so we can investigate and, if warranted, assist the buyer in resolving the matter."
more here from coinnews.net http://www.coinnews.net/2019/09/04/png-offers-to-assist-victims-of-coin-doctoring/
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Comments
I'm very glad to hear that. However, in the cases such as an added mint-mark or re-cut bands, I think the term "doctored" might serve to minimize what's been done to the coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
"We encourage anyone who suspects they unknowingly purchased a doctored coin from a PNG member, or have knowledge about coin doctoring operations by a PNG member, to submit a formal complaint to PNG so we can investigate and, if warranted, assist the buyer in resolving the matter."
While good, this sounds more like house cleaning. Do they suspect a few bad apples in the bunch?
Collector, occasional seller
"While good, this sounds more like house cleaning. Do they suspect a few bad apples in the bunch?"
No - The key is that PNG holds its dealer members to the highest standards in the industry. If a coin has been doctored, a PNG dealer member must disclose that.
It's critical for our industry to police itself and PNG is doing just that.
I'm on the PNG Board, as well as the ACEF Board (Anti-Counterfeiting)
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Oh my, here we go again...
It might surprise all of you that when I joined the ANA's Authentication Service, the "Official" definition of a whizzed coin by the "EX-Perts" was one that was CHEMICALLY CLEANED.
We got rid of that absurdity in a few weeks after learning of it. 
Looks like history is repeating itself in a different organization.
The term "Coin Doctoring" is a "modern " term when compared to the much older term ("alteration") used by coin authenticators. In fact, according to published references in the early eighties the term "alteration" covered EVERYTHING including ANYTHING that was done to improve the attractiveness of a coin, currency note or postage stamp or raise its value. That included adding a "D" or tooling the design. In more recent times. "doctoring" has been adopted and used to describe chemically altered items. I suggest we keep it that way. IMO, it is foolish to apply it to other forms of alterations!
I'm astonished that PNG has used the term "doctored" to describe altered coins. **A coin with an added "D" is NOT "doctored!" A coin with a re-engraved design It is NOT "doctored." Both are "ALTERED" genuine coins. This apparent evolution of a term ("doctoring") by some Johnny-become-important coin dealers must be stopped. Otherwise, this misuse of terminology must soon spread to any type of treatment to a coin and associate all of us who conserve items with crooks!
I'd be willing to pay more for PCGS to really go all out in examining my coins for doctoring.
I don't know how they can offer their guarantee at the prices they charge.
I'll go further...
I'd submit my coins for a sticker that does not exist right now for some expert to evaluate it, not for grade, but for tampering.
I'm more concerned about that than grade.
My Saint Set
I think CAC claims to do what you request.
No feedback from CAC whatsoever when denied.
I think he is just a TPG hater when it comes to saints.
PCGS could end CAC with a quarterly special that upgrades all beans for free.
Maybe they should.
I guess I'm not happy about going ZERO for 5 on my MS66 saints.
My Saint Set
I prefer to use correct terminology (altered vs. doctored), however, semantics aside, I am pleased to see PNG and any group or individuals fighting the battle of deceptive practices in the coin world. There should be more and certainly we have enough groups that - if the battle were engaged - we could make significant progress. Of course, without real legal penalties, it seems that ostracizing the individuals is the best we can hope for. Cheers, RickO
If you call the CAC office and give some information on your submission, I KNOW that they will be happy to share any notes they have on your coin(s) with you. They have also left physical notes on my coins before...
CAC is notoriously tough on saints, something like 95% don't get beaned, so don't take it personal.
Sorry James, but these statements are fantasy. Not even close to the truth
Anyone on this board that has a specific issue with a current PNG dealer knowingly selling doctored coins without disclosing it can bring the case to my attention. IT WILL BE DEALT WITH PROPERLY CONTRARY TO WHAT ANYONE ON THIS FORUM SAYS
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Let's have a look (separate thread) at them, especially the sun and Liberty's face 😉
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Is this a push/news release in the wake of a recent suspension?
To emphasize something, perhaps?
Plastic surgeried?
No, "plastic" is far too restrictive in name, considering all of the materials that could be used.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I own only one Saint (in my Gold Type Set), and it has a CAC. I don’t believe JA hates Saints, but to merit the CAC, the coins surface must meet their criteria (in addition to being solid for the grade). I believe it’s the surface criteria that causes so many Saints to not meet their standards. As a result, we now have a two tier market, with those high graded Saints with CAC’s selling for substantially higher prices than Saints in those same grades that don’t merit the CAC.
@ReadyFireAim , your other Saints are lovely, and even though you struck out on your initial submission of the five with the most recent dates, I suggest you submit the nicest of your others to CAC. Perhaps work with someone with a lot of experience with Saints and CAC to help you select the ones to submit. At just $14.50 a pop, if you succeed on just one, the added value to you (and/or your heirs) will probably far exceed those CAC submission costs in full.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
What's supposed to happen isn't always what does happen.
So far, after sending my 5 best, I'm thinking JA is FOS but I'm prepping my 2nd submission.
We'll see how it goes.
I've seen a bunch of CAC saints that I would not buy.
As in many.
My Saint Set
Perhaps if an important coin dealer submitted it for you the results would be better.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
While I’m a big CAC fan, I would hope that the person/entity submitting has no impact at all on the results. I understand that some cynical people may believe otherwise (and maybe they’re right) but the big part of me that has faith in the goodness and ethics of people says that it has no impact. Call me Pollyanna.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Despite the inclusion of the word “Perhaps”, that sounds like an unwarranted and cheap shot.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@ReadyFireAim said:
Sorry to hear this. Several of them looked nice based on the images. I couldn't find the original thread. Could you provide a link or was it deleted?
@PerryHall said:
» show previous quotes
Perhaps if an important coin dealer submitted it for you the results would be better.
Despite the inclusion of the word “Perhaps”, that sounds like an unwarranted and cheap shot.
My experience with Modern Bullion seems to indicate otherwise as well. Things are not perfect in paradise.
I knew it would happen.
To my knowledge, CAC (about whom PerryHall commented) doesn’t review modern bullion.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld, thanks so very much for clearly stating the facts about the above comment, which is 180 degrees incorrect, and falsely impugned CAC, and that false statement could have fooled people. As you correctly state, CAC does not review modern bullion, so when the poster indicates his/her experience with CAC and modern bullion is negative, we now know how much weight to give that!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Perhaps the remark pertained to submissions to companies other than CAC, but if so, it wasn’t made clear.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Nope. That is not how CAC works. I know from first hand experience by my own submissions and dealer submissions. Whomever submits has no influence.
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I thought it was a cool contest but it got zapped while I was at work & I don't know why.
I remember 2 people picked 0-for-5 but I can't remember who they were.
My Saint Set
Comments like this, which imply that any grading service plays favorites, is akin to accusing that grading service of fraud and has no place on these boards. JA and CAC's ethical reputation are unimpeachable.
Brett Charville --- I work at PCGS