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How do i figure out if a coin is fake.
Larrob37
Posts: 218 ✭✭✭
I am new to buying coins and hear a lot about fake coins. I am focusing on the more rare and thus more costly morgans. I buy both slabbed and raw. Some tips would be appreciated. Thanks
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Welcome @Larrob37!
Others will provide much more information, but I will leave you with this article:
“Counterfeit Coin Detection: A Morgan Dollar “Super-Fake” Revealed”
https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/counterfeit-coin-detection-a-morgan-dollar-super-fake-revealed/
Stick to a reputable dealer. You can check on the PCGS site here and follow the maps that will provide you some dealers. Buy a book and study each year that you are looking to acquire. Look and read about know fakes. You can find many with simple google search. If price is a good deal that maybe first indication. Good luck.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Welcome to the forum!
There is a wealth of information here and if your focus is on Morgan's you should check out vamworld.com
You can also post a photo here to receive feedback from members.
Rule #1.
Unless you’re an expert, don’t buy expensive rare coins unless they are certified by PCGS or NGC. You’ll save a lot of money and aggravation. Find a reputable dealer or mentor to help you.
Good luck and welcome.
In addition to that, unfortunately, there are a lot of counterfeit coins in counterfeit PCGS holders. So until you can tell the difference on your own, it’s best to buy from well established/known sellers with good reputations.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This is a recipe for a very expensive disaster.
The best way is still the old fashioned way - look at a lot of known genuine coins - that trains your brain/eye as to what it should look like.
If you are looking at a coin and your subconscious says "something is not right", listen to it.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
There are several books that discuss counterfeit detection. PCGS wrote a Grading and Counterfeit Detection book that has many good pictures and a lot of useful information. Avoid raw (unslabbed) coins and deal with a reputable coin dealer. Many raw coins are genuine but have problems such as being improperly cleaned, polished, tooled, artificially toned, etc.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
weight is the key.
@lonn47 Sorry, but a lot more than weight is involved. And how do you weigh a coin in a slab?
Kind regards,
George
Weight is a major consideration, but even if it's within tolerance, that doesn't guarantee the coin is genuine.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Larrob37....Welcome aboard....You have joined an excellent forum with many experts that share information freely. The above advice is sound and valuable. Get the book, learn the areas of interest, buy from reputable sources, post pictures here if you have questions. Good luck...Cheers, RickO
You are DEMANDING to be the POSTER CHILD for being ripped off BIG TIME.
1) Morgans are heavily counterfeited.
2) You are new and sharks smelled 50,000 tons of blood in the water.
3) Costly Morgans have the best counterfeits
4) Raw means no one would send the coin in, ergo, high chance is is counterfeit.
Go to a few major legitimate dealers. Buy a couple grade sets of cheap Morgans in PCGS holders, for example, 1882-S is cheap, so buy an MS62, MS63, MS64, MS65, MS66, MS67 so you can see what the grades look like in person. Buy a couple of DM and DMPL coins also.
Also, if you keep your concept listed above, go ahead and write up a future post:
"I bought some raw costly Morgan Dollar dollars, and they are all fake. The person I bought them from cannot be located. Have I lost all my money? " (Insert date)
Answer: Yes.
I have taken your comments to heart and will be doing some reading and studying before buying some coins. I appreciate your advice and hopefully will not be buying bad coins.
I know there is a way to check with pcgs about the authenticity of a coin but was wondering how often the serial number is faked or replacing a high grade coin with a lower grade and putting it back in the pcgs holder. Just blows my mind the lengths people go to get money.
To start with
1 Never trust any dealer.
2 Buy only slabbed PCGS coins with TrueView
3 When you get them, compare the coin to the TrueView Picture on the PCGS site.
4 Never pay more than the PCGS price guide to start with.
5 ONLY use PayPal or Credit Card where you can charge back if sold something fraudulent (see rule #1)
6 Don't trust anything I or anyone else on the internet says .
That should help you until you get your feet under you.
My Saint Set
@ReadyFireAim "1 Never trust any dealer."
Someone is trying to win a popularity contest.
Don't trust the seller unless it's your mom or dad. Then maybe...
Until you feel you've become somewhat of an expert (few are), only buy expensive coins that are slabbed from PCGS or NGC (read see/their guarantees) However, you'll still need to learn to detect counterfeit slabs since their guarantees won't cover you there.
if your buying on e bay, stay away from sellers who live in another country, have feedback below 10, if your buying ungraded coins, apmex and liberty coin are legit
If your buying graded coins they may not be depending on the phase of the moon and other weird things that would take a paragraph to explain.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1024806/i-wanted-to-buy-this-coin-from-apmex-but-when-i-asked-them-if-i-would-bet-the-coin-as-pictured#latest
As previously said Don't buy raw (yet) & don't trust dealers to grade coins. (EVER)
Don't trust modern bullion coins unless they are slabbed by a TPG or you might be buying fake Chinese junk.
My Saint Set
If you are going to buy expensive Morgan's you should consider the following:
1) Learn to vam. Learn the die markings and date position on the key dates.
2) Pick up a copy of Wayne Miller's book Morgan and Peace Dollar textbook.
3) On coins over 1K stick to the major auction houses and PCGS or NGC holders for your protection and best price. And do not go down any rabbit holes bidding on coins.
Sage advice here... The only thing I could add is... go slow and give yourself time to learn. The counterfeits coming out of China these days are good enough to fool experts, and Morgan Dollars (rarer dates especially) are some of the most heavily counterfeited pieces because so many people collect them.
...oh, and welcome to the forums!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
take it out.
There are numerous sellers on Ebay who have feedback in the hundreds or thousands (with very high scores), who are not necessarily trustworthy.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
and
Unless you want to pay big "tuition" while you educate yourself with books, articles and looking at coins (which you should do) , don't buying anything raw PERIOD, and follow the advice above regarding slabbed coins. As a DIY type I've tried in the past to educate myself enough to outsmart the bad guys on my own, as a hobbyist not a pro, just forget it.
If it sticks to a magnet.....it's fake. It's weight is important...slab weight??? I don't know about slab weights... If it's priced too low....probably fake. Priced too high....could be fake too. If you buy from Sam down a dark alley....it's probably fake. Fake coins will sure look real, it's a very real problem and you need to educate yourself or just buy from reputable dealers. Good luck, now I've got to look at my coins....I wonder how many fakes I've bought....hmmmmm
What if it's a 1943 cent?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yikes! You got me. Okay...there's always an exception isn't there?
Buy a few common dates and study them. Learn the characteristics of genuine coins first.
The above comments make me wonder about the consistency of slab weights. Say, the same generation of PCGS silver dollar slabs. Has anyone looked into this?
Smitten with DBLCs.