How do i figure out if a coin is fake.

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Larrob37
Larrob37 Posts: 222 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I am new to buying coins and hear a lot about fake coins. I am focusing on the more rare and thus more costly morgans. I buy both slabbed and raw. Some tips would be appreciated. Thanks

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  • Hemispherical
    Hemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Welcome @Larrob37!

    Others will provide much more information, but I will leave you with this article:

    “Counterfeit Coin Detection: A Morgan Dollar “Super-Fake” Revealed”

    https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/counterfeit-coin-detection-a-morgan-dollar-super-fake-revealed/

  • Kkathyl
    Kkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2019 8:44PM
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    Stick to a reputable dealer. You can check on the PCGS site here and follow the maps that will provide you some dealers. Buy a book and study each year that you are looking to acquire. Look and read about know fakes. You can find many with simple google search. If price is a good deal that maybe first indication. Good luck.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • ifthevamzarockin
    ifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,915 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Welcome to the forum! :)

    There is a wealth of information here and if your focus is on Morgan's you should check out vamworld.com
    You can also post a photo here to receive feedback from members.

  • skier07
    skier07 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Rule #1.

    Unless you’re an expert, don’t buy expensive rare coins unless they are certified by PCGS or NGC. You’ll save a lot of money and aggravation. Find a reputable dealer or mentor to help you.

    Good luck and welcome.

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019 4:01AM
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    @Larrob37 said:
    I am new to buying coins...
    I am focusing on the more more costly morgans...
    I buy raw...

    This is a recipe for a very expensive disaster. :/

  • BStrauss3
    BStrauss3 Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The best way is still the old fashioned way - look at a lot of known genuine coins - that trains your brain/eye as to what it should look like.

    If you are looking at a coin and your subconscious says "something is not right", listen to it.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
    Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,756 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Larrob37 said:
    I am new to buying coins and hear a lot about fake coins. I am focusing on the more rare and thus more costly morgans. I buy both slabbed and raw. Some tips would be appreciated. Thanks

    There are several books that discuss counterfeit detection. PCGS wrote a Grading and Counterfeit Detection book that has many good pictures and a lot of useful information. Avoid raw (unslabbed) coins and deal with a reputable coin dealer. Many raw coins are genuine but have problems such as being improperly cleaned, polished, tooled, artificially toned, etc.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • lonn47
    lonn47 Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
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    weight is the key.

  • giorgio11
    giorgio11 Posts: 4,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @lonn47 Sorry, but a lot more than weight is involved. And how do you weigh a coin in a slab?

    Kind regards,

    George

    VDBCoins.com Our Registry Sets Many successful BSTs; pls ask.
  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @lonn47 said:
    weight is the key.

    Weight is a major consideration, but even if it's within tolerance, that doesn't guarantee the coin is genuine.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Larrob37....Welcome aboard....You have joined an excellent forum with many experts that share information freely. The above advice is sound and valuable. Get the book, learn the areas of interest, buy from reputable sources, post pictures here if you have questions. Good luck...Cheers, RickO

  • mustangmanbob
    mustangmanbob Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JBK said:

    @Larrob37 said:
    I am new to buying coins...
    I am focusing on the more more costly morgans...
    I buy raw...

    You are DEMANDING to be the POSTER CHILD for being ripped off BIG TIME.

    1) Morgans are heavily counterfeited.
    2) You are new and sharks smelled 50,000 tons of blood in the water.
    3) Costly Morgans have the best counterfeits
    4) Raw means no one would send the coin in, ergo, high chance is is counterfeit.

    Go to a few major legitimate dealers. Buy a couple grade sets of cheap Morgans in PCGS holders, for example, 1882-S is cheap, so buy an MS62, MS63, MS64, MS65, MS66, MS67 so you can see what the grades look like in person. Buy a couple of DM and DMPL coins also.

    Also, if you keep your concept listed above, go ahead and write up a future post:

    "I bought some raw costly Morgan Dollar dollars, and they are all fake. The person I bought them from cannot be located. Have I lost all my money? " (Insert date)

    Answer: Yes.

  • Larrob37
    Larrob37 Posts: 222 ✭✭✭
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    I have taken your comments to heart and will be doing some reading and studying before buying some coins. I appreciate your advice and hopefully will not be buying bad coins.

  • Larrob37
    Larrob37 Posts: 222 ✭✭✭
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    I know there is a way to check with pcgs about the authenticity of a coin but was wondering how often the serial number is faked or replacing a high grade coin with a lower grade and putting it back in the pcgs holder. Just blows my mind the lengths people go to get money.

  • ReadyFireAim
    ReadyFireAim Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019 7:15AM
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    To start with

    1 Never trust any dealer.

    2 Buy only slabbed PCGS coins with TrueView

    3 When you get them, compare the coin to the TrueView Picture on the PCGS site.

    4 Never pay more than the PCGS price guide to start with.

    5 ONLY use PayPal or Credit Card where you can charge back if sold something fraudulent (see rule #1)

    6 Don't trust anything I or anyone else on the internet says . ;)

    That should help you until you get your feet under you.

    My Saint Set

  • CCGGG
    CCGGG Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019 7:34AM
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    Don't trust the seller unless it's your mom or dad. Then maybe...

    Until you feel you've become somewhat of an expert (few are), only buy expensive coins that are slabbed from PCGS or NGC (read see/their guarantees) However, you'll still need to learn to detect counterfeit slabs since their guarantees won't cover you there.

  • coinpalice
    coinpalice Posts: 2,469 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    if your buying on e bay, stay away from sellers who live in another country, have feedback below 10, if your buying ungraded coins, apmex and liberty coin are legit

  • ReadyFireAim
    ReadyFireAim Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019 8:07AM
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    @coinpalice said:
    if you're buying ungraded coins, apmex and liberty coin are legit

    If your buying graded coins they may not be depending on the phase of the moon and other weird things that would take a paragraph to explain.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1024806/i-wanted-to-buy-this-coin-from-apmex-but-when-i-asked-them-if-i-would-bet-the-coin-as-pictured#latest

    As previously said Don't buy raw (yet) & don't trust dealers to grade coins. (EVER)
    Don't trust modern bullion coins unless they are slabbed by a TPG or you might be buying fake Chinese junk.

    My Saint Set

  • slider23
    slider23 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭✭
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    If you are going to buy expensive Morgan's you should consider the following:

    1) Learn to vam. Learn the die markings and date position on the key dates.

    2) Pick up a copy of Wayne Miller's book Morgan and Peace Dollar textbook.

    3) On coins over 1K stick to the major auction houses and PCGS or NGC holders for your protection and best price. And do not go down any rabbit holes bidding on coins.

  • lkenefic
    lkenefic Posts: 9,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Sage advice here... The only thing I could add is... go slow and give yourself time to learn. The counterfeits coming out of China these days are good enough to fool experts, and Morgan Dollars (rarer dates especially) are some of the most heavily counterfeited pieces because so many people collect them.

    ...oh, and welcome to the forums!

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • lonn47
    lonn47 Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
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    @giorgio11 said:
    @lonn47 Sorry, but a lot more than weight is involved. And how do you weigh a coin in a slab?

    Kind regards,

    George

    take it out.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @coinpalice said:
    if your buying on e bay, stay away from sellers who live in another country, have feedback below 10, if your buying ungraded coins, apmex and liberty coin are legit

    There are numerous sellers on Ebay who have feedback in the hundreds or thousands (with very high scores), who are not necessarily trustworthy.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • AUandAG
    AUandAG Posts: 25,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_2vA1qO2fA

    and

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP4PU6TNzA4

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • oldabeintx
    oldabeintx Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Unless you want to pay big "tuition" while you educate yourself with books, articles and looking at coins (which you should do) , don't buying anything raw PERIOD, and follow the advice above regarding slabbed coins. As a DIY type I've tried in the past to educate myself enough to outsmart the bad guys on my own, as a hobbyist not a pro, just forget it.

  • Onastone
    Onastone Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If it sticks to a magnet.....it's fake. It's weight is important...slab weight??? I don't know about slab weights... If it's priced too low....probably fake. Priced too high....could be fake too. If you buy from Sam down a dark alley....it's probably fake. Fake coins will sure look real, it's a very real problem and you need to educate yourself or just buy from reputable dealers. Good luck, now I've got to look at my coins....I wonder how many fakes I've bought....hmmmmm

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,756 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019 4:58PM
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    @Onastone said:
    If it sticks to a magnet.....it's fake.

    What if it's a 1943 cent? ;)

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Onastone
    Onastone Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall said:

    @Onastone said:
    If it sticks to a magnet.....it's fake.

    What if it's a 1943 cent? ;)

    Yikes! You got me. Okay...there's always an exception isn't there? :)

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Buy a few common dates and study them. Learn the characteristics of genuine coins first.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • Aotearoa
    Aotearoa Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The above comments make me wonder about the consistency of slab weights. Say, the same generation of PCGS silver dollar slabs. Has anyone looked into this?

    Smitten with DBLCs.

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