Dare I call this toner a monster?

Skrill90 · August 4, 2019 3:52PM

Truly amazed by its toning, quite spectacular!
I wonder how it looks in hand... Would you call this Morgan a monster?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_id=114&ipn=icep&toolid=20004&campid=5338461489&mpre=https://www.ebay.com/itm/202714008262?ViewItem=&item=202714008262

Boosibri · August 4, 2019 4:09PM

Monster price for a marginal coin

MFeld · August 4, 2019 4:29PM

If the color is anything close to what’s seen in the images, absolutely. And since I feel that term “monster” is badly abused and overused, I rarely use it.

stman · August 4, 2019 4:30PM

I won’t address price as most will. You asked about the coin. I like it for a Morgan😆. Only graded 63 which I like to see them in 65 at least.
To me it looks way under graded which really doesn’t matter.

Apparently cac felt it did not feel it was at least 65. Would like to see it.
I don’t feel the coin is marginal. Just priced to the moon so I would not hit it. Oops, I mentioned price. What do you think most people would call it on here if they were selling this?

Coinstartled · August 4, 2019 4:44PM

I tend to be more like RickO regarding coloration on coins.

It would be a cool piece though for a couple hundred bucks. I'll let someone else jump in for the eight grand being asked.

Bigbuck1975 · August 4, 2019 4:48PM

The current price is several thousand below his original ask price.

DollarAfterDollar · August 4, 2019 4:57PM

I'd call it a monster but at that price only a few collectors would even consider it. I'm not one.

BAJJERFAN · August 4, 2019 4:59PM

Buried in a coffin or buried in a coin; neither one seems particularly appealing.

cameonut2011 · August 4, 2019 8:56PM

In my opinion, the images are juiced based on this and some other coins I have seen this user post in the past.

ElmerFusterpuck · August 4, 2019 9:17PM

The "monster" designation" depends on which pic is the most accurate. That being said, this coin needs to be seen in hand to even think about paying that kind of price (which does seem way out of hand). I hope the coin is like the last image shown, but I'm having doubts based on the first two images.

Major 4 figure coins need to be seen in hand before making a buying decision, or need a trusted pair of eyes for that decision.

lkeigwin · August 4, 2019 9:38PM

I thought the Heritage price last year was stupid.

Seller's ebay price today is absurd.
Lance.

lava · August 4, 2019 10:05PM

It has monster toning, but when it comes to pricing, I can’t get past that it’s an ‘83-o in 63. To get your money out you’d need two MINO bidders to go at it. (Money Is No Object).

keets · August 5, 2019 4:37AM

three things --- the Heritage picture seems to show why the coin is graded MS63 and CAC didn't think otherwise. the Heritage picture also seems to bolster the point made by cameonut2011 that the eBay images are juiced. finally, I posted a thread several months ago about this seller, they never seem able to provide better pictures of coins when asked, they are always "Away at a Show....................." and the coins are with them.

I don't even view their items anymore and have come to recognize their images at a glance.

run, Forrest.

ricko · August 5, 2019 5:02AM

Unbelievable.... I will leave it at that.....Cheers, RickO

PQueue · August 5, 2019 6:05AM

$60 coin.

jerseycat101 · August 5, 2019 6:26AM

It is most certainly a monster. It is undergraded by 1 point at most, so it's not a GEM monster, and as such, is probably not an $8-9K coin, IMHO.

Higashiyama · August 5, 2019 7:16AM

Affirmation of montrousness requires the coin in hand. However, speculating based on the photo, I'm guessing it is a very nice coin and a bit of a beast, but not a rare true monster.

MFeld · August 5, 2019 8:15AM

@PQueue said:
$60 coin.

Not to anyone who likes or buys highly colorful examples. The market strongly disagrees with you and by a huge margin.

PQueue · August 5, 2019 10:51AM

RE:
... The market strongly disagrees with you and by a huge margin

Maybe, but with > 54,700 PCGS MS63 grading events, > 43,400 PCGS MS64 grading events and another 9,300 PCGS events in MS65, the market is in for some huge future price disappointment.

JonBrand83 · August 5, 2019 2:19PM

That price is nuts but its a cool coin I wouldnt mind owning but that number is just insane.. I see it sold on HA for $2760 in 2018 and didnt even have a cac sticker.

MFeld · August 5, 2019 2:37PM

@PQueue said:
RE:
... The market strongly disagrees with you and by a huge margin

Maybe, but with > 54,700 PCGS MS63 grading events, > 43,400 PCGS MS64 grading events and another 9,300 PCGS events in MS65, the market is in for some huge future price disappointment.

Those numbers are essentially meaningless, when discussing an example with the color of the one in this thread.

segoja · August 5, 2019 2:45PM

I know this seller well. That coin is a monster

Look up some of the Legend prices realized and I think you'll find this coin in the range

BAJJERFAN · August 5, 2019 3:01PM

7 dolla an fitty tree cents to ship an $8600 coin, that's weird.

Ebeneezer · August 5, 2019 6:57PM

The vivid toning on one side and little on the other is consistent with long term canvas bag storage. In this case, the obverse was against the bag while the reverse rested against another coin. As for a monster? I have to agree with the majority that the term has been twisted around a bit, over used as a selling point. By my own definition it would have to be toned on both sides, preferably similar. As to a price, these always find a buyer paying a premium accordingly set by the bidders.

Luxor · August 5, 2019 7:04PM

@lkeigwin said:
I thought the Heritage price last year was stupid.

Seller's ebay price today is absurd.
Lance.

Wow.....the difference between that Heritage pic and the current sellers pics are very dramatic. The coin itself is most likely somewhere between the two IMO.

PQueue · August 6, 2019 5:37AM

RE:
Those numbers are essentially meaningless, when discussing an example with the color of the one in this thread.
Not to anyone that lives outside of thinly traded, next greater fool, markets. Sure dealers can flip coins.
Educate me Mr. professional numismatist. If not $8,599.99, what price would you pay to buy and retain that coin in your personal collection for 10 years?

MFeld · August 6, 2019 5:53AM

@PQueue said:
RE:
Those numbers are essentially meaningless, when discussing an example with the color of the one in this thread.
Not to anyone that lives outside of thinly traded, next greater fool, markets. Sure dealers can flip coins.
Educate me Mr. professional numismatist. If not $8,599.99, what price would you pay to buy and retain that coin in your personal collection for 10 years?

You started off by saying it was a "$60 coin" and I responded "The market strongly disagrees with you and by a huge margin".

Then you posted populations for MS63, 64 and 65 grades, which have nothing to do with values of wildly toned examples. Nor does it matter what I'd pay. The coin brought $2760 in a public auction. If you want to continue to say that it's a "thinly traded, next greater fool, market" and that it's a $60 coin, that's your prerogative. I suspect that more than a few people would disagree with your valuation.

PQueue · August 6, 2019 6:07AM

What a coin brought in public auction is a single data point, as are PCGS grading events for valuation purposes. It's fine that you disagree, put out a valuation that you would pay to own and hold the subject coin for 10 year period.

grip · August 6, 2019 6:27AM

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YVwAAOSw35ZdJk1l/s-l64.jpg
From same seller.

ElmerFusterpuck · August 6, 2019 6:38AM

@PQueue said:
What a coin brought in public auction is a single data point, as are PCGS grading events for valuation purposes. It's fine that you disagree, put out a valuation that you would pay to own and hold the subject coin for 10 year period.

So you base your $60 valuation on a single data point??? That smacks of pure laziness in the research department. Why don't you go look up the archives of the Legend auctions and look at the true monster toners and what they sold for. Then contact each buyer and ask them if they will take $60 for the 63's or maybe $120 for the 65's.

If you've never been in the deep end of the pool, don't come in here and offer advanced swimming lessons.

segoja · August 6, 2019 10:38AM

ElmerFusterpuck

Well stated There is always someone who wants the moon for nothing.

Yesterday I had a guy bid $800 for a coin I have listed for $175000. He got mad and said that I can just keep it, since his offer was "more than fair" Coin is 1880 Shield Nickel PCGS MS66 Top Pop

lonn47 · August 6, 2019 10:49AM

8000 for 800 ok

PQueue · August 6, 2019 11:24AM

RE:
If you've never been in the deep end of the pool, don't come in here and offer advanced swimming lessons

A bit presumptuous Erik, but I'll bite. Deep end, like your linked current sets?

I collected gold, had a GEM 1907 Gold Proof Set (thread link below) and a mid 6 figure gold type set, not Boiler or privaterarecoincollector rarity & quality, but I owned some scarce pieces. Since you brought it up, what deep end material have you owned?

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/894527/1907-proof-set-for-the-the-weekend#latest

Owen1793 · August 6, 2019 11:36AM

@PQueue said:
RE:
If you've never been in the deep end of the pool, don't come in here and offer advanced swimming lessons

A bit presumptuous Erik, but I'll bite. Deep end, like your linked current sets?

I collected gold, had a GEM 1907 Gold Proof Set (thread link below) and a mid 6 figure gold type set, not Boiler or privaterarecoincollector rarity & quality, but I owned some scarce pieces. Since you brought it up, what deep end material have you owned?

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/894527/1907-proof-set-for-the-the-weekend#latest

Pretty sure it was a little more metaphorical than that

blitzdude · August 6, 2019 11:39AM

Worth about $35-$40. Good candidate to crack and give a good dip. Congrats!

Catbert · August 6, 2019 11:51AM

@grip said:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YVwAAOSw35ZdJk1l/s-l64.jpg
From same seller.

LOL - is this a pic of the moon in a colorful phase?

ElmerFusterpuck · August 6, 2019 1:08PM

@PQueue said:
RE:
If you've never been in the deep end of the pool, don't come in here and offer advanced swimming lessons

A bit presumptuous Erik, but I'll bite. Deep end, like your linked current sets?

I collected gold, had a GEM 1907 Gold Proof Set (thread link below) and a mid 6 figure gold type set, not Boiler or privaterarecoincollector rarity & quality, but I owned some scarce pieces. Since you brought it up, what deep end material have you owned?

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/894527/1907-proof-set-for-the-the-weekend#latest

I didn't mean the "deep end" to be $$$ at all, but I can see the misunderstanding there. Yes, you have owned some outstanding coins based on your link, and I sure wouldn't go in there and say "oh those are only $X dollar coins (X being a fraction of the actual worth or market price)". Granted the toner market is a bit different, and quite a few people on this forum have shown their disdain for them, but it's their choice. You are free to say you'd pay only $60 for them, but anyone who is in the toner market will simply laugh you off.

The coin in the OP is very stupidly priced, and I agree with Lance that the Heritage price was stupid too, so asking 3x stupid money is just 3x stupid. I've seen 63's like that go for over $1K, which might still be stupid money for some, but not for others. I'd possibly bite the OP coin for $1K or more after seeing it in hand, but paying $8K+ after it sold for under $3K? I'd need a special blend of crack for that.

Dare I call this toner a monster?

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