What are your thoughts on a $1000 PCGS graded coin at auction.
Coinstartled
Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
Blessedly sticker free.
Do you run away scared or do you evaluate the coin and consider a bid?
This is a hypothetical...not a specific coin under consideration.
0
Comments
I am satisfied with the PCGS gurantee, take advantage of the enlarge feature and if the coin appears to be all their and the current price is reasonable, I place a bid.
Do the same on NGC coins, but if for resale, I back off my bid a bit.
I might assume that the coin failed to sticker at CAC and make a bid that I feel is consistent for a low-end or C coin of that grade. That is, above auction results for the one grade down, but not at the level of past sales of B and A level (CAC'd) coins of the assigned grade.
what do you feel are the percentage of $1000 coins that have ever been to CAC ? I am guessing well under 10%, but could be way off
The whole "sticker" thing has become an annoyance. If someone doesn't know how to grade they have no business spending hard earned money on collectible coins.
Don't care about, don't want, and don't need stickers.
The whole sticker thing is nothing more than a self fulfilling prophecy anyway........collectors and dealers submit their nicest stuff in hopes of "scoring" a gold bean in many cases and flipping for a nice profit. Hence many of the PQ coins for their respective grades have stickers on the holders. Gee.....the mystery of the pyramids.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Why should someone have to be proficient at grading, to spend money on collectibles? And the same goes for being highly knowledgeable about other collectibles?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Moran Dollars and stickers , LMFAOL.
I am a buyer on anything if the price is right and feel can get something out of it.
I buy nice PCGS /NGC $20 DE (especially if close to melt) and Commems especially at or close to bid no sticker necessary.
TPG guarantee works for me plus I can grade and know how look at coins. CAC costs more and will buy them if price works for me.
In the current world of collectibles grading IS the name of the game because grading is where the money is being made.
Let me play the "Devils advocate" ..... 2 identical graded $1000 PCGS/NGC coins, one with a sticker & one w/o...which one would you buy. My guess, most of us would prefer the CAC one.
I've spent over 10x that on unstickered coins.
No problems or regrets.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Oy Vey.
Those who say that they know how to grade would know if it's a "C" level coin, no?
Agree except if you're putting together a type set or if you are new.
I can see needing JA's help there.
My Saint Set
I look at the coin. If I like it, I bid. If not, I'm out.
Stickers make no difference to to me. There was a time when I would buy either PCGS or NGC coins, but today I prefer PCGS. Unless it's a token or cheap item, I don't buy coins in in second tier holders. When I was dealer, I paid for crossovers, but I don't do them any more.
Isn't it about time for someone to say "Buy the coin not the holder or sticker on the holder"?
BTW gave up a few stickers when I had a bunch True Viewed lately.
You’re talking about money, not enjoyment of collecting.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You are probably way off...…...just look at the coin for what it is and if you need it and like it buy it and be glad you didn't have to pay the CAC tax.
Many, perhaps most, collectors think about making money on their collectibles. The "profits" in most cases are just an illusion but the hope keeps them buying.
If it's a coin I need then I evaluate the coin and bid.
You’re talking about money, not enjoyment of collecting.
Many collectors are well aware of the realities of the marketplace. And for those who are, your stance (copied below) sounds a bit extreme.
“If someone doesn't know how to grade they have no business spending hard earned money on collectible coins.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Your scenario is not realistic. Two identical PCGS/NGC graded coins. The one without the CAC sticker is $1000 while the one with the CAC sticker is $1250 ($1000 plus a $250 CAC Tax). Which one would you buy? My guess is that most experienced collectors would buy the first coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You have never seen a CAC coin that was ugly and obviously not anywhere near anything but the low-end? I sure have, lots of them.
I go by the merits of the coin itself. I would prefer the CAC if the coin was nice and the price was not higher than an equal non-CAC coin.
I have sold many CAC coins in true auctions. The prices realized were the same as the non-CAC coins.
And we rookie boobs who somehow got to live through the inexplicable ups and downs of the coin marketing episodes would ...probably... buy the stickered one just from experience with the fickle public.
So let it be written; so let it be edited.
Sure!
I thought that the context here is auction bidding that relies on images only. In that case, the sticker can be an important indicator.
I certainly have seen CAC coins that I did not find attractive. I’ll even admit to scratching my head about some. Though, again, that’s from images.
I appreciate this and your sales experience.
Just what the world needs..... another CAC thread!
Nobody cares what I think, so I won't try to answer the question. For the record, nobody really cares what most other people think about this either.
I'll just add that the business side of numismatics has always been carried along on the backs of collectors. For a collector, the difference between the price paid for a coin and the price received when selling a coin is the money that supports a significant industry.
When it comes to stickers, as with most things in life, there are good parts, bad parts, unintended consequences, those who profit, those who don't, those who understand it, and those who think they do.
Perhaps the OP should have asked a better question:
"Assume you are an experienced collector of half dimes and a coin that you've been desperate to find shows up at an auction. It looks to be nice for grade and you have a strong suspicion that it is an unattributed rare variety. it matches the rest of your set nicely, and it will probably sell at a price that fits your budget. You notice that it doesn't have a CAC sticker......."
or
"Assume you are a vest-pocket dealer. Once of the thousands of coins you've evaluated today looks mildly interesting. You think you might have a ready buyer for it at a certain price point. You notice it doesn't have a CAC sticker........"
"Assume you are a crackout artist (or new collector, or coin doctor, or coin shop owner, or. or, or........"
See the difference? All of these different people are represented here and each of them will see this a bit differently.
Finally,
STRONGLY agree!
This 1864 Bronze Cent in PCGS MS-65 R&B does not have a CAC sticker. When I was shopping for this coin at the recent Summer FUN show, I spotted two others in MS-65 R&B holders that had the CAC stickers. The prices were $125 to $150 higher. I bought this one because there was really no difference between the coins.
Well you don't, Mark. Poked my head into the Neil Armstrong A> @MFeld said:
Are the two really inseparable on higher value coins, at least to the non 1% er's
A THOUSAND DOLLAR COIN !!!???
Good grief, man.
My first car was fifty cents. It was made by Lesney.
I would evaluate the coin and form my own opinion by carefully examining the technical merits of the coin before bidding. This is the same approach I would take if the coin had stickered.
This is a trick question, right?
What sort of a coin collector doesn't figure out a bid on a coin that they like/want (and have the scratch for) after they've evaluated it? If it hits the bid, Great!, if not, move on to the next coin, as there is ALWAYS another coin out there.
U.S. Type Set
1) I don't buy anything I don't think I have at least decent skills to grade. For most coins, acquiring decent skills isn't that hard. I learned how to adequately grade early 20th century English, Canadian, and some Australian coins by looking at many of them and reading informative material about grading on the internet.
2) For a $1,000 coin, I have access to people in the business who know more than I do and will give me an opinion about a coin. I always go this route before making a major purchase. I never buy sight unseen. If I or someone I trust cannot physically inspect a coin, I don't bid or buy it. Period.
3) Re a comment above, I know some dealers who don't send coins to CAC or try to upgrade them. They find coins and re-sell them.
4) I've been collecting long enough to find exceptions to all rules, be the assigned grade of a coin in a holder, or whether a coin is stickered or not.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Well it is not a trick question. Seemingly many collectors eschew graded coins that do not have a sticker.
I’d not bid on a non-CAC coin, without examining, or having someone I trust examine it for me.
TPGs, even our host, occasionally make errors. I recently purchased a modern. Not common. DCAM. Received the coin in a PCGS shield holder, and after taking a good look, found that the DCAM had been “applied.”
Vendor was a gentleman, and refunded upon return. Coin is now available again.
“Trust, but verify.”
Outside of its promoters and certain posters here I don’t see the sticker thing being a big deal especially at shows.
If you don’t know how to grade or look at coins you should not be buying $1000 coins anyway - well a slabbed 69 AGE might be ok lol. Even then what u gonna do when coin starts to tarnish / go bad in the Holder a few years later from exposure to the atmosphere.
Nearly a dozen participants in this thread state or agree with the notion that an individual who looks for a coin in a top tier holder and the approval of an acknowledged group of expert graders is foolish and should not be buying these coins. Such upside down logic/absurdity (imagine if this policy was embraced for stock purchases!).
More than that, it is bad for the hobby.
I understand those who hate CAC. CAC has changed the marketplace and empowered consumers (collectors). The changed landscape has vastly helped collectors. These collectors are staying away from lower quality examples and the purveyors of coins in this market segment have had to adjust. Roger all of that.
Hate away on CAC all day long, but don't advocate chasing people from our hobby. Please.
Lots of fugly PCGS/CAC coins floating around out there. They change hands regularly. Beware.
Dave
I buy coins. Sometimes plastic and stickers surround them. But my evaluation will always be the coin and price. Nothing else matters.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
My thoughts would be how much (and how fast) could I sell the coin for vs. how much I could expect to profit if I invested the $1000 in other coins.
No thoughts whatsoever about sticker or lack of one.
What can I sell it for and what are chances wb able flip for positive gain.
Don’t want to be end user.
On the reverse. Is that a diecrack tailing away to the SE from the "C" in CENT? Or just a holder scratch.
That feature is raised on the surface of the coin, and it probably is a remnant from less than perfectly removed clash marks. Check out the forehead area on the Indian's bust on the obverse.