I have had my eye on a piece in his inventory that has been sitting there a while. He came down 10% on the price. I thought it needed another 10% to be reasonable ( matching the highest recorded auction price). I told him he had a standing offer from me at that level.
You did nothing wrong, of course. But if dealers think you're not willing to stretch for the right coins, it's going to be hard to get them too interested in finding coins for you. Not because they're greedy profit-maximizing bastards, and not because they don't like you, but because the only way they're going to be able to sell you something for a profit is if they happen to stumble on just the right coin AND buy it cheaply. That, I'm sad to report, does not happen very often.
This story has nothing to do with you. In your case, I'm sure the people have just been busy. After all, look at all the shows lately.
Years ago, when my dad retired, he suggested that he come to the shop on Fridays to help out. He could cover me while I ran around, whatever. It worked out beautifully. He helped me out for almost 25 years. At one point, he said to me, "Boy, it sure is amazing all the delightful customers you deal with" !
I told him, "Dad, that's because I've has 20 years to weed out all the A*******.......". Of course he laughed, but it's true. You have to fire some of these people. If you don't, they're going to send their friends in, and those people will be just like them. The nightmare is compounding.....
whoa, beav, how true that is. there are times when we have a disagreeable customer or someone complaining about an offer or price and I stumbled onto a solution years ago. I cheerfully suggest that they try so-and-so down the street. that way they tie up their money and become their problem customer. I usually never see them in the store again.
@thebeav said:
This story has nothing to do with you. In your case, I'm sure the people have just been busy. After all, look at all the shows lately.
Years ago, when my dad retired, he suggested that he come to the shop on Fridays to help out. He could cover me while I ran around, whatever. It worked out beautifully. He helped me out for almost 25 years. At one point, he said to me, "Boy, it sure is amazing all the delightful customers you deal with" !
I told him, "Dad, that's because I've has 20 years to weed out all the A*******.......". Of course he laughed, but it's true. You have to fire some of these people. If you don't, they're going to send their friends in, and those people will be just like them. The nightmare is compounding.....
@keets said:
whoa, beav, how true that is. there are times when we have a disagreeable customer or someone complaining about an offer or price and I stumbled onto a solution years ago. I cheerfully suggest that they try so-and-so down the street. that way they tie up their money and become their problem customer. I usually never see them in the store again.
Neither of you guys have made me feel any better about this.
I know I did nothing wrong. (Not that you stated I did.)
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
hey York, what I am saying is that dealers can be quirky(yes, even me) and sometimes the daily grind of customers can wear them down. the reaction can be inappropriate at times or rooted in the stubborn practices of decades,
there are some dealers that I won't even interact with. I walk past their tables at shows and say a pleasant "Hello" and keep moving. someone else will have what I'm looking for.
Yes, but you never know the dealer's perception or take on the matter.
A couple of my examples -
At Baltimore quite a few years ago, a national dealer from the West Coast had a '19 walker in a 58 holder that
I was interested in. It was a nice coin, and had a corresponding high price on the sticker.
I politely asked "what's your best price on it?", as I always do - He responded with 'just give me the coin back, it obviously isn't for you!' and literally pulled the coin of my hands. There was no sign that he was net pricing his items, etc....Maybe I looked young, or poor, or whatever, but I was stunned by that event.
Another time at our local show roughly 10 years ago, I asked a dealer, who was a friend of another dealer friend of mine, to see a nice Barber half he had in his case.....he replied with 'that coin's sold' it wasn't upside down, or in the back of the case, no indication whatsoever......I replied back with, because there were other B -halves in the case I was also interested in 'Oh, Ok - what other coins have been sold already, so I don't have to ask about those?' He closed the case and walked away....so I shrugged and went on to the next dealer's table.
I found out many months later from my dealer friend that apparently the guy took that as a major insult and was still harboring hard feelings toward me. My friend later patched things up between us, and we wound up doing quite a bit of business then over the years.
"Visibility" does not ensure that every potential buyer will see the coin, of course.
"Visibility" means whatever I define it to mean.
Some might say the same of “stupidity”. After all, it’s all relative.
Also true.
Not sure why this is a "brawl" or even a disagreement. It's a discussion of basic sales theory. In such a theory, a coin at open auction with "visibility" to the market will sell at "fair value". For a fixed price sale, it's a bid/ask arrangement instead.
Of course, in a real world scenario, things like failure to meet the "visibility" criteria happen. (Visibility was my word, I forget the corresponding word in economics and it's late.)
Go ahead and put me on "ignore", although I'm not sure why this discussion would upset anyone. We actually agree on everything, despite your need to insert "stupidity" into the discussion. I guess maybe I'm the one that should put you on ignore.
True on all points. In my experience many coin collectors buyers sellers have stock that goes unsold for long periods. If your a collector and a seller you grow attached to your coins and some are willing to sell but only if it covers price paid plus the stupid money mark up ( what would it take to get you to,...,,). Some sellers want to look big so the add everything on the sites.
Visibility and exposure is tough to define. Maybe the seller lists item so they show wide selection but price is in Nogo range because a friend owns coin and it’s on consignment pending price acceptability. Perhaps that coin is part of his Show travel display first second third row. Maybe he has bank line and it’s mortgaged against.
I have fired clients during my 30 years of running a financial advisory/private banking practice. I know why one would want to do so.
Maybe he did just forget to reply. I have done that too. After the prior communication, it just felt like he wanted to not be bothered. His loss.
I am in the midst of starting a relationship with a dealer who focuses on a similar area. If things don’t change, He will be the one to make money from my purchases in this area in the future.
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
@OldIndianNutKase said:
To me your dealer is not concerned about inventory turns and making money. He is 90% collector and only 10% dealer.
OINK
I know a few small dealers that bring the same inventory to show after show. They are less of a coin dealer and more of a museum curator.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@ACop said:
Not coin related but I have fired a few clients.
So did I when I was a dealer. I had a client who seldom came to shows and was very high maintenance. I had to go to him to sell him items, and he bought some outstanding material. Then he learned about the Greysheet and thought that he should be able to buy prime coins at those prices or less. We are talking about items like pre 1916 high grade Matte Proof and Brilliant Proof gold coins in PR-65, 66 and 67. I told him that I could not obtain that kind of material for less than the Greysheet, but it didn’t matter. The Greysheet became his pricing standard, so I dropped him.
Another customer gave me a couple of bad checks. That got him on my bad side so we ended up doing business in cash only.
People complain about dealers, but there are two sides the story.
As for dealers with highest prices, well, some guys have that business model. They usually don’t sell much to me, but some of them seem to stay business and do well enough to hire helpers at the shows.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I usually tell someone in a situation like that “unless the item is bin make offer it’s already at our best price” or if at a show I might say “this is the lowest the consignor will go” or make a counter offer meeting them half way. Perhaps he’s ticked at the market and then fed up with lookey looks.
I believe coin people would try haggle with a girl over the price of a $20 lap dance something I would never do. I told a girl one time visiting w me telling me of her frustrating day (she had moved to Houston from LA saying she did better in the clubs here plus Hou cheaper live and not as restrictive club rules) “yes I can understand your angst over stupido cheapos us coin dealers have to pay a table fee to setup at a show like u have to pay tip out dance here at the club, we have a lot in common.” I would stop by there (one of 2 SC 1.5 miles from my office) wait out the horrible NW Houston traffic after work $3 beer / wine plus fantastic free buffet and fun (brand new club). The previous one struck by lightning and burned to ground they said.
I had a guy message me 4 or 5 times “will you take x?” Each time I told him no and the number got higher then made him counter offer we agreed on.
It costs money to be in the coin business dealers don’t do this for free.
If u truly want item make counter offer that’s close. He may decide move the item.
@Cougar1978 said:
I usually tell someone in a situation like that “unless the item is bin make offer it’s already at our best price” or if at a show I might say “this is the lowest the consignor will go” or make a counter offer meeting them half way. Perhaps he’s ticked at the market and then fed up with lookey looks.
I believe coin people would try haggle with a girl over the price of a $20 lap dance something I would never do.
I had a guy message me 4 or 5 times “will you take x?” Each time I told him no and the number got higher then made him counter offer we agreed on.
It costs money to be in the coin business dealers don’t do this for free.
Cougar,
I never implied that I thought this dealer should not make a living. my offer was at the level of the highest auction price ever for the coin in that grade. (It was not the same coin.) He was asking 20% more and would have settled for 10%.
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
If I learned one thing today, it's how to use the "Ignore" function.
What took you so long? LOL. I always have my list of 5 full. A few changes along the way when a member is banned or disappears. Why waste a good "ignore" slot?
One caveat though. If you don't sign in, you will see "ignored" content. And if other members quote "ignored" content, you will see it.
@Boosibri said:
How much was the difference in your ask vs his? 10% in a $500 coin is different than 10% on a $10,000 coin.
If you are haggling with a dealer for the last $100 I’m not surprised you wouldn’t get first shot at his new stuff.
You make a good point, but it was he who drew a line. I made offer first asking if he would take the highest price ever recorded for such a piece. He had to have 10% more.
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
@Yorkshireman said:
I have fired clients during my 30 years of running a financial advisory/private banking practice. I know why one would want to do so.
Maybe he did just forget to reply. I have done that too. After the prior communication, it just felt like he wanted to not be bothered. His loss.
I am in the midst of starting a relationship with a dealer who focuses on a similar area. If things don’t change, He will be the one to make money from my purchases in this area in the future.
Well maybe it is not his loss. You showed interest in an item in the dealer's inventory and he countered with a ten percent discount. A further counter offer by you is cool, unless you presented a pitch as to why his bauble was still overpriced.
Collectibles are not Michelin tires where we can go to Costco if the price at Wal mart is too high. Obviously the desired item is difficult to find or you would have grabbed one elsewhere.
I wouldn't terminate you as a customer for that...but wouldn't go out of my way to retain you either.
@Cougar1978 said:
I usually tell someone in a situation like that “unless the item is bin make offer it’s already at our best price” or if at a show I might say “this is the lowest the consignor will go” or make a counter offer meeting them half way. Perhaps he’s ticked at the market and then fed up with lookey looks.
I believe coin people would try haggle with a girl over the price of a $20 lap dance something I would never do.
I had a guy message me 4 or 5 times “will you take x?” Each time I told him no and the number got higher then made him counter offer we agreed on.
It costs money to be in the coin business dealers don’t do this for free.
Cougar,
I never implied that I thought this dealer should not make a living. my offer was at the level of the highest auction price ever for the coin in that grade. (It was not the same coin.) He was asking 20% more and would have settled for 10%.
FWIW, most of the sharpest dealers regularly pay record prices for the best coins at auction and usually manage to turn a profit. Do you understand how that’s possible?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@Boosibri said:
How much was the difference in your ask vs his? 10% in a $500 coin is different than 10% on a $10,000 coin.
If you are haggling with a dealer for the last $100 I’m not surprised you wouldn’t get first shot at his new stuff.
You make a good point, but it was he who drew a line. I made offer first asking if he would take the highest price ever recorded for such a piece. He had to have 10% more.
Just a comment, just because it was more than the highest auction price doesn't mean that it wasn't a fair price. I don't know the coin but if it was a common coin then the auction prices are probably valid but if it's not that common then there are lots of ways coins trade rather than auction that establish value. Maybe the auction prices are "too low" because the coins weren't as nice or weren't CAC or any other reason.
@Cougar1978 said:
I usually tell someone in a situation like that “unless the item is bin make offer it’s already at our best price” or if at a show I might say “this is the lowest the consignor will go” or make a counter offer meeting them half way. Perhaps he’s ticked at the market and then fed up with lookey looks.
I believe coin people would try haggle with a girl over the price of a $20 lap dance something I would never do.
I had a guy message me 4 or 5 times “will you take x?” Each time I told him no and the number got higher then made him counter offer we agreed on.
It costs money to be in the coin business dealers don’t do this for free.
Cougar,
I never implied that I thought this dealer should not make a living. my offer was at the level of the highest auction price ever for the coin in that grade. (It was not the same coin.) He was asking 20% more and would have settled for 10%.
FWIW, most of the sharpest dealers regularly pay record prices for the best coins at auction and usually manage to turn a profit. Do you understand how that’s possible?
I suppose i do, but had not thought about it from that angle.
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
You win some / lose some in negotiating. It’s all in the art of the deal.
If the dealers goal is get somewhere between cost and retail, move material quickly a cash offer in the right range - let Ben fo the talking. Others may be stuck on a number especially if operating on narrow spread. Either way I respect their decision, it’s their play call.
@Yorkshireman
Do you still madly in love with the said coin after all of these? It carries too much emotional baggage after all ........ so IMHO let it go
Prior to becoming active on this board, for the last 25 years, I have bought from 4 major dealers in my home area. 1 bought a Widows rather large collection at less than 10 cents on the dollar, his comment to me " It's not my job to educate her on the worth of her husbands collection, if she doesn't know what it's worth, I'm going buy it as cheap as I can get. I spent over $200,000.00 dollars with another and when I needed to unload about $20,000.00, he offered me 25% of bid on the same coins I bought from him. When I questioned him, he retort was"Hey I'm not the one standing here needing money. There are hundreds of dealers out there who are ethical & honest. I have never had a single bad deal with anyone on this board and I'm convinced I've gotten better prices on better coins than from any of the B &M dealers I've dealt with. This is a fun hobby and when you deal with someone you have to worry about hurting their feelings, the fun isn't there. Move on, Find another source. One of the honest , involved, good dealers here has the coin you're looking for and at the right price.
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs
@Paradisefound said: @Yorkshireman
Do you still madly in love with the said coin after all of these? It carries too much emotional baggage after all ........ so IMHO let it go
I have.
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
@bobsr said:
This is a fun hobby and when you deal with someone you have to worry about hurting their feelings, the fun isn't there. Move on, Find another source. One of the honest , involved, good dealers here has the coin you're looking for and at the right price.
Bob Sr CEO
Thanks, Bob
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
Since you are a price haggler I am assuming you have a thick skin...
"Fired" seems kind of dramatic...most likely you are just being ignored...
Auction prices are BS...look at the prices the coins in the Admiral Collection of gold eagles garnered versus the historical auction prices...most "A" coins never go to auction...
My favorite dealers work on thin margins and know how to price...on a New Purchase I never would think of making an offer...maybe after 30 days of a coin sitting on a web site I might throw out an offer...I assume any counter is the dealer's bottom price...personally I will never counter a counter...they know the prices a lot better than I ever will...
If you are haggling over anything less than $500 then you can't afford the coin or you are just playing games and IMHO deserve to be ignored...
In my area of collecting (old Gold) there are very few good dealers and if you want to access to their best stuff I'd recommend staying on their good side....
@Cougar1978 said:
I usually tell someone in a situation like that “unless the item is bin make offer it’s already at our best price” or if at a show I might say “this is the lowest the consignor will go” or make a counter offer meeting them half way. Perhaps he’s ticked at the market and then fed up with lookey looks.
I believe coin people would try haggle with a girl over the price of a $20 lap dance something I would never do.
I had a guy message me 4 or 5 times “will you take x?” Each time I told him no and the number got higher then made him counter offer we agreed on.
It costs money to be in the coin business dealers don’t do this for free.
Cougar,
I never implied that I thought this dealer should not make a living. my offer was at the level of the highest auction price ever for the coin in that grade. (It was not the same coin.) He was asking 20% more and would have settled for 10%.
FWIW, most of the sharpest dealers regularly pay record prices for the best coins at auction and usually manage to turn a profit. Do you understand how that’s possible?
Yes. It's called "the Greater Fool Theory".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Cougar1978 said:
I usually tell someone in a situation like that “unless the item is bin make offer it’s already at our best price” or if at a show I might say “this is the lowest the consignor will go” or make a counter offer meeting them half way. Perhaps he’s ticked at the market and then fed up with lookey looks.
I believe coin people would try haggle with a girl over the price of a $20 lap dance something I would never do.
I had a guy message me 4 or 5 times “will you take x?” Each time I told him no and the number got higher then made him counter offer we agreed on.
It costs money to be in the coin business dealers don’t do this for free.
Cougar,
I never implied that I thought this dealer should not make a living. my offer was at the level of the highest auction price ever for the coin in that grade. (It was not the same coin.) He was asking 20% more and would have settled for 10%.
FWIW, most of the sharpest dealers regularly pay record prices for the best coins at auction and usually manage to turn a profit. Do you understand how that’s possible?
Yes. It's called "the Greater Fool Theory".
Since we’re all pretty much fools, I can’t completely disagree! But I prefer to think of it in terms of all of us valuing coins (and money!) differently, for all kinds of reasons.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@jonruns said:
Since you are a price haggler I am assuming you have a thick skin...
"Fired" seems kind of dramatic...most likely you are just being ignored...
Probably
Auction prices are BS...look at the prices the coins in the Admiral Collection of gold eagles garnered versus the historical auction prices...most "A" coins never go to auction...
True
My favorite dealers work on thin margins and know how to price...on a New Purchase I never would think of making an offer...maybe after 30 days of a coin sitting on a web site I might throw out an offer...I assume any counter is the dealer's bottom price...personally I will never counter a counter...they know the prices a lot better than I ever will...
Remember he marked up the piece I sold him 40% from an already high price (which is certainly his right), but I had a feeling the piece I wanted had also been marked up a lot. Many of his pieces seem to be.
If you are haggling over anything less than $500 then you can't afford the coin or you are just playing games and IMHO deserve to be ignored...
This piece was well over that
In my area of collecting (old Gold) there are very few good dealers and if you want to access to their best stuff I'd recommend staying on their good side....
Good point!
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
@Yorkshireman, my comment might be a bit repetitive from a few comments above, but while I agree as we all do pricing research before buying a coin, and that includes fully utilizing auction prices realized (as you did), we must all remember that every coin is different in some way than other coins. If by chance the coin that you were interested in had nicer eye appeal than the one sold at the highest auction price realized, that might explain the dealer wanting more. Additionally, as most of us recognize (like it or not), coins with CAC’s usually sell at a higher price (sometimes significantly) than those without CAC’s. It’s not clear from your post if the coin you wanted had a CAC, and the auction sale records were for coins without CAC’s.
With all that said, it does indeed sound like my points were not the actual cause in this situation, but that the dealer chose (for whatever reason) to not negotiate any further than his 10% counteroffer.
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
I would call or email this person back and very politely offer 10 to 15% less, that will tell you if he is purposely ignoring you. Besides, who is the customer here.
He knocked off 10 percent a generous discount. It seems the ball is now in your court to take it or pass.
Can you provide the coin, date, grade, and current price? I can’t analyze further without this data. Is this a coin under $500?
Let’s say I knock off 10 pct on a coin at a show (haggling customer). I generally say “this is my best price.” It’s their decision to take it or pass. If pass, it’s time for them to leave. No additional convo needed. If they try press the situation further I politely advise them to shop around. Or in certain instances where they make some low counter offer “do you have one (exact item, grade, TPG Holder) you will sell me at that.”
@Cougar1978 said:
He knocked off 10 percent a generous discount. It seems the ball is now in your court to take it or pass.
Where do you get the idea that he already given a “generous discount” before the 10% drop?
Can you provide the coin, date, grade, and current price? I can’t analyze further without this data. Is this a coin under $500?
I have no interest in revealing more details. With all due respect, I am tired of re-hashing issue after all comments.
Let’s say I knock off 10 pct on a coin at a show (haggling customer). I generally say “this is my best price.” It’s their decision to take it or pass. No additional convo needed. If they try press the situation further I politely advise them to shop around. Or in certain instances where they make some unacceptable low counter offer “do you have one you will sell me at that.”
Thanks to all for opinions.
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
Just mainly curious where he is vs bid or TPG - no real other details necessary.
Ten percent is a generous discount off an asking (Market) price or market retail, CPG (CDN based).
A model RR shop I did business with for my model trains had a store wide 10 percent off Catalog Retail. Nobody questioned that - this is a generous discount. The store did a brisk business. Let’s say CW Trends $5000 and the seller offers it to you at $4500, he’s leaving $500 on the table coming out the gate. Hardly chump change.
I can’t analyze your situation without the data requested. It appears he has already told you his best price. Consequently it’s a moot issue where it falls on some pricing spectrum as it’s now your decision take, possibly counter offer, or pass. I am just curious about coin data, etc. what’s bid, TPG price, his ask....Where is he vs CPG? Or as one poster recommended call him (find out situation).
A lot of times at a show I have quoted a price, buyer makes counter offer, I make offer about half way or so of discount he’s seeking, and in most instances play successful. That’s if I have a lot of room in it. My hand strongest where I have only one in the room - key, top pop, or better date coin. I am there move inventory not play games, leave money on table, or give away to Treasure Hunter (crackout dealer or finance a sticker player). Five Star material: CAC, super PQ, single digit pop, really scarce - usually my price or no go.
Comments
I honestly have no idea who you guys are talking about. But sometimes stuff I read / hear trigger things and I gotta chime in, relevant or not.
So enjoy some quick youtube!
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
There are so many tempests on this forum that there are just not enough teapots to go around.....
Cheers,RickO
And also sell it to someone else for a higher price!
This story has nothing to do with you. In your case, I'm sure the people have just been busy. After all, look at all the shows lately.
Years ago, when my dad retired, he suggested that he come to the shop on Fridays to help out. He could cover me while I ran around, whatever. It worked out beautifully. He helped me out for almost 25 years. At one point, he said to me, "Boy, it sure is amazing all the delightful customers you deal with" !
I told him, "Dad, that's because I've has 20 years to weed out all the A*******.......". Of course he laughed, but it's true. You have to fire some of these people. If you don't, they're going to send their friends in, and those people will be just like them. The nightmare is compounding.....
whoa, beav, how true that is. there are times when we have a disagreeable customer or someone complaining about an offer or price and I stumbled onto a solution years ago. I cheerfully suggest that they try so-and-so down the street. that way they tie up their money and become their problem customer. I usually never see them in the store again.
Neither of you guys have made me feel any better about this.
I know I did nothing wrong. (Not that you stated I did.)
hey York, what I am saying is that dealers can be quirky(yes, even me) and sometimes the daily grind of customers can wear them down. the reaction can be inappropriate at times or rooted in the stubborn practices of decades,
there are some dealers that I won't even interact with. I walk past their tables at shows and say a pleasant "Hello" and keep moving. someone else will have what I'm looking for.
I know I did nothing wrong.
Yes, but you never know the dealer's perception or take on the matter.
A couple of my examples -
At Baltimore quite a few years ago, a national dealer from the West Coast had a '19 walker in a 58 holder that
I was interested in. It was a nice coin, and had a corresponding high price on the sticker.
I politely asked "what's your best price on it?", as I always do - He responded with 'just give me the coin back, it obviously isn't for you!' and literally pulled the coin of my hands. There was no sign that he was net pricing his items, etc....Maybe I looked young, or poor, or whatever, but I was stunned by that event.
Another time at our local show roughly 10 years ago, I asked a dealer, who was a friend of another dealer friend of mine, to see a nice Barber half he had in his case.....he replied with 'that coin's sold' it wasn't upside down, or in the back of the case, no indication whatsoever......I replied back with, because there were other B -halves in the case I was also interested in 'Oh, Ok - what other coins have been sold already, so I don't have to ask about those?' He closed the case and walked away....so I shrugged and went on to the next dealer's table.
I found out many months later from my dealer friend that apparently the guy took that as a major insult and was still harboring hard feelings toward me. My friend later patched things up between us, and we wound up doing quite a bit of business then over the years.
True on all points. In my experience many coin collectors buyers sellers have stock that goes unsold for long periods. If your a collector and a seller you grow attached to your coins and some are willing to sell but only if it covers price paid plus the stupid money mark up ( what would it take to get you to,...,,). Some sellers want to look big so the add everything on the sites.
Visibility and exposure is tough to define. Maybe the seller lists item so they show wide selection but price is in Nogo range because a friend owns coin and it’s on consignment pending price acceptability. Perhaps that coin is part of his Show travel display first second third row. Maybe he has bank line and it’s mortgaged against.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I have fired clients during my 30 years of running a financial advisory/private banking practice. I know why one would want to do so.
Maybe he did just forget to reply. I have done that too. After the prior communication, it just felt like he wanted to not be bothered. His loss.
I am in the midst of starting a relationship with a dealer who focuses on a similar area. If things don’t change, He will be the one to make money from my purchases in this area in the future.
IMO, probably a time versus money issue. If it takes too much time, move on would the dealer think I would imagine.
Well, just Love coins, period.
To me your dealer is not concerned about inventory turns and making money. He is 90% collector and only 10% dealer.
OINK
I know a few small dealers that bring the same inventory to show after show. They are less of a coin dealer and more of a museum curator.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
So did I when I was a dealer. I had a client who seldom came to shows and was very high maintenance. I had to go to him to sell him items, and he bought some outstanding material. Then he learned about the Greysheet and thought that he should be able to buy prime coins at those prices or less. We are talking about items like pre 1916 high grade Matte Proof and Brilliant Proof gold coins in PR-65, 66 and 67. I told him that I could not obtain that kind of material for less than the Greysheet, but it didn’t matter. The Greysheet became his pricing standard, so I dropped him.
Another customer gave me a couple of bad checks. That got him on my bad side so we ended up doing business in cash only.
People complain about dealers, but there are two sides the story.
As for dealers with highest prices, well, some guys have that business model. They usually don’t sell much to me, but some of them seem to stay business and do well enough to hire helpers at the shows.
I usually tell someone in a situation like that “unless the item is bin make offer it’s already at our best price” or if at a show I might say “this is the lowest the consignor will go” or make a counter offer meeting them half way. Perhaps he’s ticked at the market and then fed up with lookey looks.
I believe coin people would try haggle with a girl over the price of a $20 lap dance something I would never do. I told a girl one time visiting w me telling me of her frustrating day (she had moved to Houston from LA saying she did better in the clubs here plus Hou cheaper live and not as restrictive club rules) “yes I can understand your angst over stupido cheapos us coin dealers have to pay a table fee to setup at a show like u have to pay tip out dance here at the club, we have a lot in common.” I would stop by there (one of 2 SC 1.5 miles from my office) wait out the horrible NW Houston traffic after work $3 beer / wine plus fantastic free buffet and fun (brand new club). The previous one struck by lightning and burned to ground they said.
I had a guy message me 4 or 5 times “will you take x?” Each time I told him no and the number got higher then made him counter offer we agreed on.
It costs money to be in the coin business dealers don’t do this for free.
If u truly want item make counter offer that’s close. He may decide move the item.
Cougar,
I never implied that I thought this dealer should not make a living. my offer was at the level of the highest auction price ever for the coin in that grade. (It was not the same coin.) He was asking 20% more and would have settled for 10%.
What took you so long? LOL. I always have my list of 5 full. A few changes along the way when a member is banned or disappears. Why waste a good "ignore" slot?
One caveat though. If you don't sign in, you will see "ignored" content. And if other members quote "ignored" content, you will see it.
Maybe the dealer was busy trying to hitch a ride to Molokai.
How much was the difference in your ask vs his? 10% in a $500 coin is different than 10% on a $10,000 coin.
If you are haggling with a dealer for the last $100 I’m not surprised you wouldn’t get first shot at his new stuff.
Latin American Collection
You make a good point, but it was he who drew a line. I made offer first asking if he would take the highest price ever recorded for such a piece. He had to have 10% more.
Well maybe it is not his loss. You showed interest in an item in the dealer's inventory and he countered with a ten percent discount. A further counter offer by you is cool, unless you presented a pitch as to why his bauble was still overpriced.
Collectibles are not Michelin tires where we can go to Costco if the price at Wal mart is too high. Obviously the desired item is difficult to find or you would have grabbed one elsewhere.
I wouldn't terminate you as a customer for that...but wouldn't go out of my way to retain you either.
...and I am putting myself on ignore for the rest of the day so that I can get a bike ride in before it is 104 degrees.
FWIW, most of the sharpest dealers regularly pay record prices for the best coins at auction and usually manage to turn a profit. Do you understand how that’s possible?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Just a comment, just because it was more than the highest auction price doesn't mean that it wasn't a fair price. I don't know the coin but if it was a common coin then the auction prices are probably valid but if it's not that common then there are lots of ways coins trade rather than auction that establish value. Maybe the auction prices are "too low" because the coins weren't as nice or weren't CAC or any other reason.
I suppose i do, but had not thought about it from that angle.
You win some / lose some in negotiating. It’s all in the art of the deal.
If the dealers goal is get somewhere between cost and retail, move material quickly a cash offer in the right range - let Ben fo the talking. Others may be stuck on a number especially if operating on narrow spread. Either way I respect their decision, it’s their play call.
@Yorkshireman
Do you still madly in love with the said coin after all of these? It carries too much emotional baggage after all ........ so IMHO let it go
I disagree. Call him. Use of the telephone seems like a forgotten or ignored option by many, these days.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Prior to becoming active on this board, for the last 25 years, I have bought from 4 major dealers in my home area. 1 bought a Widows rather large collection at less than 10 cents on the dollar, his comment to me " It's not my job to educate her on the worth of her husbands collection, if she doesn't know what it's worth, I'm going buy it as cheap as I can get. I spent over $200,000.00 dollars with another and when I needed to unload about $20,000.00, he offered me 25% of bid on the same coins I bought from him. When I questioned him, he retort was"Hey I'm not the one standing here needing money. There are hundreds of dealers out there who are ethical & honest. I have never had a single bad deal with anyone on this board and I'm convinced I've gotten better prices on better coins than from any of the B &M dealers I've dealt with. This is a fun hobby and when you deal with someone you have to worry about hurting their feelings, the fun isn't there. Move on, Find another source. One of the honest , involved, good dealers here has the coin you're looking for and at the right price.
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs
I have.
Thanks, Bob
I rarely do repeat business with any dealers & prefer not to talk to them.
My Saint Set
Since you are a price haggler I am assuming you have a thick skin...
Yes. It's called "the Greater Fool Theory".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Since we’re all pretty much fools, I can’t completely disagree! But I prefer to think of it in terms of all of us valuing coins (and money!) differently, for all kinds of reasons.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Probably
True
Remember he marked up the piece I sold him 40% from an already high price (which is certainly his right), but I had a feeling the piece I wanted had also been marked up a lot. Many of his pieces seem to be.
This piece was well over that
Good point!
@Yorkshireman, my comment might be a bit repetitive from a few comments above, but while I agree as we all do pricing research before buying a coin, and that includes fully utilizing auction prices realized (as you did), we must all remember that every coin is different in some way than other coins. If by chance the coin that you were interested in had nicer eye appeal than the one sold at the highest auction price realized, that might explain the dealer wanting more. Additionally, as most of us recognize (like it or not), coins with CAC’s usually sell at a higher price (sometimes significantly) than those without CAC’s. It’s not clear from your post if the coin you wanted had a CAC, and the auction sale records were for coins without CAC’s.
With all that said, it does indeed sound like my points were not the actual cause in this situation, but that the dealer chose (for whatever reason) to not negotiate any further than his 10% counteroffer.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I would call or email this person back and very politely offer 10 to 15% less, that will tell you if he is purposely ignoring you. Besides, who is the customer here.
Send him a text once a month reminding him that your offer stands. No sucking up and don't worry about whether he likes you or not.
There is an epidemic of incivility in this country and people who exhibit it, sellers or buyers, should be avoided.
Commems and Early Type
...
The last thought here is so true.
He knocked off 10 percent a generous discount. It seems the ball is now in your court to take it or pass.
Can you provide the coin, date, grade, and current price? I can’t analyze further without this data. Is this a coin under $500?
Let’s say I knock off 10 pct on a coin at a show (haggling customer). I generally say “this is my best price.” It’s their decision to take it or pass. If pass, it’s time for them to leave. No additional convo needed. If they try press the situation further I politely advise them to shop around. Or in certain instances where they make some low counter offer “do you have one (exact item, grade, TPG Holder) you will sell me at that.”
Where do you get the idea that he already given a “generous discount” before the 10% drop?
I have no interest in revealing more details. With all due respect, I am tired of re-hashing issue after all comments.
Thanks to all for opinions.
Just mainly curious where he is vs bid or TPG - no real other details necessary.
Ten percent is a generous discount off an asking (Market) price or market retail, CPG (CDN based).
A model RR shop I did business with for my model trains had a store wide 10 percent off Catalog Retail. Nobody questioned that - this is a generous discount. The store did a brisk business. Let’s say CW Trends $5000 and the seller offers it to you at $4500, he’s leaving $500 on the table coming out the gate. Hardly chump change.
I can’t analyze your situation without the data requested. It appears he has already told you his best price. Consequently it’s a moot issue where it falls on some pricing spectrum as it’s now your decision take, possibly counter offer, or pass. I am just curious about coin data, etc. what’s bid, TPG price, his ask....Where is he vs CPG? Or as one poster recommended call him (find out situation).
A lot of times at a show I have quoted a price, buyer makes counter offer, I make offer about half way or so of discount he’s seeking, and in most instances play successful. That’s if I have a lot of room in it. My hand strongest where I have only one in the room - key, top pop, or better date coin. I am there move inventory not play games, leave money on table, or give away to Treasure Hunter (crackout dealer or finance a sticker player). Five Star material: CAC, super PQ, single digit pop, really scarce - usually my price or no go.