COIN DIES
Does the US MINT retain obsolete coin dies, in any museum or vault? And is it legal to collect, own, or posses them?
Comments
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Certainly it’s legal to own the ones they sold at various times. It seems legal to own the ones they put in the garbage as well.
Never seen legal-to-own specimens of the ones in the photo.
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It seems risky to allow the tools to strike legal coins to be publicly owned without defacing them in some way. Counterfeiting and striking “new” rare coins come to mind.
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@MrTea said:
It seems risky to allow the tools to strike legal coins to be publicly owned without defacing them in some way. Counterfeiting and striking “new” rare coins come to mind.I haven’t seen newer coin dies, after mid-19th century, that are not defaced. In the early 19th century, the Mint threw away non-defaced dies and people used them to make restrikes. There hasn’t been an opportunity for this in a long time.
Usually old dies have problems and don’t strike perfectly. For rare coins, the condition of the die usually gives away a restrike.
They also cannot produce the quantity of coins needed to be worthwhile for commercial use.
Counterfeiters generally make their own dies, e.g. tier 1 classic counterfeits and modern Sacagawea and UK pound coins.
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@MrTea said:
It seems risky to allow the tools to strike legal coins to be publicly owned without defacing them in some way. Counterfeiting and striking “new” rare coins come to mind.They don't anymore. They completely deface the dies before they release them.
I do not know, but @RogerB or someone else might know if they retain any dies for museum purposes. I would kind of doubt it given their counterfeiting concerns.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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The “easy” way to create a counterfeit die is to make a transfer die from a coin. Basically this is using the coin as a hub. This has been done recently, I believe with large cents.
I’m still curious about the process Paul Franklin used to make the Clark Gruber double eagles. Was the host coin ever identified?
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I’m at the Long Beach show reading this on my iPhone hard to reply I’m typing with my fingers I’ll be glad to answer all the questions about dies on Monday when I’m back inMy office
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.6 -
@MrTea When I saw the title of this thread ”Coin Dies” I thought it was going to be a sad Memorial thread about an unfortunate coin Passing Away!! 🤣😂 LOL!!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"3 -
The mint sold dies from the 1996 Olympic Commems. They are cancelled with an X ground into them, but nearly all of the detail is visible.
Member of the ANA since 19822 -
Once at an ANA show a man showed me an uncancelled S-Mint Seated Liberty Dollar reverse die. He was asking for offers.
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.1 -
R.I.P Coin
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It seems like the Branch Mints did not destroy retired dies in the earl to mid 20th Century.
While researching coin die usage at the Denver Mint, it says that the dies were returned to Philadelphia for destruction.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon0 -
I was in the Engraving Department at the Philly Mint in the 70's. Hoskins and I were shown a closet filled with old dies covered with grease. We were given one but I cannot remember anything about it. I had to wipe my hands off with a rag. After that, It was hard to imagine how a die could ever rust.
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All the more modern dies I have seen are cancelled with large X or cross...Cheers, RickO
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@MrTea said:
Does the US MINT retain obsolete coin dies, in any museum or vault? And is it legal to collect, own, or posses them?https://www.fredweinberg.com/product-category/coin-dies-and-misc/
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The US Mint is prohibited from having a public museum or similar facility. SI is the official place.
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An older thread: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/996326/finally-my-proof-dollar-olympic-die-set-is-complete
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@Hemispherical said:
@MrTea said:
Does the US MINT retain obsolete coin dies, in any museum or vault? And is it legal to collect, own, or posses them?https://www.fredweinberg.com/product-category/coin-dies-and-misc/
As I recall, when they sold the state quarter dies they were completely smooth with no trace of design.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@Hemispherical said:
@MrTea said:
Does the US MINT retain obsolete coin dies, in any museum or vault? And is it legal to collect, own, or posses them?https://www.fredweinberg.com/product-category/coin-dies-and-misc/
As I recall, when they sold the state quarter dies they were completely smooth with no trace of design.
This is true. I consider these dies to no longer to be actual dies and are now just scrap metal. One of my coin collecting friends from my coin club bought one from the mint and was very disappointed with what he got. Earlier dies from the 1960's were defaced with a torch and some show partial designs on their face.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire0 -
Not sure what happened to my post after I tried to edit to add a photo, but here is a link to another thread that contains a photo I took of the dies that are on display at the Nevada State Museum housed in the old Carson City Mint Building.
The dies were discovered when excavations were done around the mint building. One of the dug up dies was used to make a few "coins" complete with the X marks. (Zoins has posted a photo of one of those coins on the linked thread as well.)
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