Whats your guess as to the grade of this $2.5 Gold Indian. ( just got the grade today 4/4/19 -MS 62)

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WaterSport
WaterSport Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 4, 2019 1:34PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I have not a clue as to how to grade this series. It belongs to a friend. Whats your guess of a grade.
Many thanks in advance
WS


Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.

Comments

  • erwindoc
    erwindoc Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Tough series to grade. Looks like AU58 v. MS63.

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like an AU. Can we get better pics?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    XF45 from what I am seeing.

    My YouTube Channel

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I would like better pictures... but based on those, AU55...Could be better or worse in hand... Cheers, RickO

  • slider23
    slider23 Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭
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    AU58

  • SurfinxHI
    SurfinxHI Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Eagle shoulder details are excellent. Feathers on headdress are excellent. Color and surfaces look completely off. If there is dirt in the devices, will not likely go higher than 62. If no dirt, and it’s real, looks 64 or better.

    Dead people tell interesting tales.
  • Gluggo
    Gluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    We need Jwitten but I like it AU 55 or better, and the mighty find pictures.

  • AlexinPA
    AlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    XF 45 is my guess. :)

  • au58
    au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭
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    55

  • Batman23
    Batman23 Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Not my series but my first impression was 55, the more I look at it... maybe 58.

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Careful, this may be a "trick" question. :wink:

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @SurfinxHI said:
    Eagle shoulder details are excellent. Feathers on headdress are excellent. Color and surfaces look completely off. If there is dirt in the devices, will not likely go higher than 62. If no dirt, and it’s real, looks 64 or better.

    I don't see any original mint luster which should be there for any MS grade. I appears to have flat dull surfaces. We need better pics which may show some luster.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    AU58 or better based on detail, but the pictures leave much to be desired for purposes of this exercise.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • HighRelief
    HighRelief Posts: 3,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    AU55

  • SurfinxHI
    SurfinxHI Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall said:

    @SurfinxHI said:
    Eagle shoulder details are excellent. Feathers on headdress are excellent. Color and surfaces look completely off. If there is dirt in the devices, will not likely go higher than 62. If no dirt, and it’s real, looks 64 or better.

    I don't see any original mint luster which should be there for any MS grade. I appears to have flat dull surfaces. We need better pics which may show some luster.

    Yup. I think it is all a product of the photo. Let’s see if the OP provides something with a bit better representation.

    Dead people tell interesting tales.
  • jwitten
    jwitten Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Those pictures show really good detail, but do not show any luster at all. I would imagine there IS luster, just not shown in that style picture. Has the details of a MS coin though, in my opinion. I say anywhere from AU58-MS63, depending on luster, etc. I will guess MS62 though.

  • jwitten
    jwitten Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Insider2 said:
    Careful, this may be a "trick" question. :wink:

    How so? Looks genuine and gradable to me.

  • WaterSport
    WaterSport Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No trick question. Just trying to determine if it is AU or MS. Try these pics.


    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    With all those hairlines in the fields it looks AU at best and possibly cleaned.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall said:
    With all those hairlines in the fields it looks AU at best and possibly cleaned.

    +1

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Choice AU sharpness, but hairlines going in one direction suggest cleaning. Whether or not it’s enough to result in a “details” grade will require a personal review.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • robkool
    robkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    AU58...

    Ebay items for sale Current BIN's / The Kingdom Collection
  • bolivarshagnasty
    bolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Are those hairlines or die polish lines?

  • CleverUserName
    CleverUserName Posts: 17 ✭
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    @jwitten Ability to vet detail from the images aside, I believe @Insider2 may be referring to the fact that about 40% of all counterfeits in to PCGS for grading are $2.5s gold Indians.

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019 8:00PM
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    @jwitten said:

    @Insider2 said:
    Careful, this may be a "trick" question. :wink:

    How so? Looks genuine and gradable to me.

    In the first image, the flat luster and dark color gave the coin the appearance of a Matte Proof. The second image shows it is not.

    IMO it has a good chance for an MS-61 with 62 the Max. And you guys can laugh all you wish. While the coin is my AU and your AU, it is NOT HARSHLY CLEANED! When I graded the "gold tier," I learned very quickly that coins with more friction than this example are graded MS all day long.

    PS If the OP takes another image with the coin turned sideways, I'll bet we can agree that the hairlines are typical and random and not from cleaning.

  • privatecoin
    privatecoin Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Au55

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • jwitten
    jwitten Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    More hairlines in the second set of pics than the first, but I've seen far worse graded MS by both ngc and pcgs. I had a thread deleted recently for showing one that I was surprised was straight graded. I still say MS61-62 is reasonable.

  • jwitten
    jwitten Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    This one straight graded AU 55

  • Paradisefound
    Paradisefound Posts: 8,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    AU55 :) ..... love the gold coin no matter what the grade may be.

  • jwitten
    jwitten Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Everyone saying AU55 and lower... check out the dotted lines on the headband on the AU55 example I posted versus the coin in question. You cannot even see them on the AU55. You can see the zig zag, but not the dotted lines that run straight. Those are among the first details to disappear with wear.

  • 1Mike1
    1Mike1 Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    58 to 62 possibly cleaned.

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • mannie gray
    mannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @WaterSport said:
    No trick question. Just trying to determine if it is AU or MS. Try these pics.


    62 from those images.

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hairlines in the fields are not unusual on these coins since they don't have raised rims which would tend to protect the fields while these coins are laying on a flat surface such as a counting table.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • WaterSport
    WaterSport Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks everyone. I think the second picture did help close the grade loop somewhat. The owner says we are going to submit, so I will repost with a grade in an couple of months.

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @WaterSport said:
    Thanks everyone. I think the second picture did help close the grade loop somewhat. The owner says we are going to submit, so I will repost with a grade in an couple of months.

    WS

    MONTHS! I cannot believe it takes more than three weeks to get one coin graded. :(

  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    With the second picture, I say AU58

    My YouTube Channel

  • illini420
    illini420 Posts: 11,659 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hard to tell from the first set of pics, just looks unnatural. But combining those with the second set of pics, I'm not seeing any clear signs of wear. Based on that and the various marks and the hairlines or whatever going on in the fields, I'd guess MS62.

    Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700

  • REALGATOR
    REALGATOR Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    62ish

  • ShipwreckCoinHunter
    ShipwreckCoinHunter Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Au 53

  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks 58 to me. I'd love to see any 45 that looks as nice.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • PQueue
    PQueue Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
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    AU

  • WaterSport
    WaterSport Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Well, now we know, thanks for overtones input. We decided to send it in and it graded MS 62.
    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.

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