Just saw my first automatic state sales tax on eBay

EagleEye · January 26, 2019 2:28PM

A fellow in Washington state ordered a quarter eagle yesterday and it invoiced without sales tax. Today he ordered a second one and wholla!, it tacked on 10% to the eBay invoice. This was a grayed out field that could not be edited by me.

ricko · January 26, 2019 2:33PM

Yes, I ordered some blood type patches a few days ago... and sales tax was added... would not normally have been.... and a private seller as well. Cheers, RickO

MWallace · January 26, 2019 2:38PM

Who is collecting the tax to turn over to the state/county/city, eBay or the seller?

JimTyler · January 26, 2019 2:39PM

@MWallace said:
Who is collecting the tax to turn over to the state/county/city, eBay or the seller?

Ebay

santinidollar · January 26, 2019 2:44PM

Here’s the link to eBay’s explanation:

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/taxes-import-charges?id=4121

JimW · January 26, 2019 2:57PM

Damn it! I guess I need to make any significant purchases there prior to July 1, 2019....

Zoins · January 26, 2019 3:01PM

It was only a matter of time before this happened. Too much sales, and thus the tax base, has shifted online.

MWallace · January 26, 2019 3:03PM

@JimTyler said:

@MWallace said:
Who is collecting the tax to turn over to the state/county/city, eBay or the seller?

Ebay

Thank you. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but my argument would be that I didn't but anything from eBay, therefore they can't charge me tax.

This is a money making proposition for eBay. In my state, retail businesses keep a percentage of the taxes they collect for administrative purposes incurred submitting the collected taxes to the government.

jmlanzaf · January 26, 2019 3:27PM

@MWallace said:

@JimTyler said:

@MWallace said:
Who is collecting the tax to turn over to the state/county/city, eBay or the seller?

Ebay

Thank you. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but my argument would be that I didn't but anything from eBay, therefore they can't charge me tax.

This is a money making proposition for eBay. In my state, retail businesses keep a percentage of the taxes they collect for administrative purposes incurred submitting the collected taxes to the government.

Good thing you aren't a lawyer. The States involved have passed laws that force Ebay and Amazon to do this

AlexinPA · January 26, 2019 3:52PM

No taxation without representation!

Bochiman · January 26, 2019 4:02PM

@EagleEye said:
A fellow in Washington state ordered a quarter eagle yesterday and it invoiced without sales tax. Today he ordered a second one and wholla!, it tacked on 10% to the eBay invoice. This was a grayed out field that could not be edited by me.

It's a screwup then, as, if his address on file is Washington State, we don't have sales tax on coins/bullion.

MWallace · January 26, 2019 4:23PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@MWallace said:

@JimTyler said:

@MWallace said:
Who is collecting the tax to turn over to the state/county/city, eBay or the seller?

Ebay

Thank you. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but my argument would be that I didn't but anything from eBay, therefore they can't charge me tax.

This is a money making proposition for eBay. In my state, retail businesses keep a percentage of the taxes they collect for administrative purposes incurred submitting the collected taxes to the government.

Good thing you aren't a lawyer. The States involved have passed laws that force Ebay and Amazon to do this

Passing laws doesn't make it right or constitutional.

mustangmanbob · January 26, 2019 5:16PM

I always HATED in the Army taking guys to a court marital for trial who had gotten SUPERB advice from the barracks lawyers.

The Army's case was &(%#*, don't plead out to a lesser charge, you are going to make those officer's heads swim.

Great advice from the barracks lawyers, as the defendant would get convicted and sent to the stockade or Leavenworth.

Gluggo · January 26, 2019 5:29PM

@EagleEye said:
A fellow in Washington state ordered a quarter eagle yesterday and it invoiced without sales tax. Today he ordered a second one and wholla!, it tacked on 10% to the eBay invoice. This was a grayed out field that could not be edited by me.

Lets see you pay 10% sales tax and when you go to sell you pay Ebay 10% Vig. Ouch 20%

jmlanzaf · January 26, 2019 5:31PM

@MWallace

ernment.

Good thing you aren't a lawyer. The States involved have passed laws that force Ebay and Amazon to do this

Passing laws doesn't make it right or constitutional.

Actually, the Supreme Court ruled that it was constitutional - which is why the States did it. But the point was that it was NOT eBay's idea. eBay fought the internet sales tax for years

PhilLynott · January 26, 2019 5:44PM

Curious are the states on the list linked above ones with high income tax rates and/or tolls as well? I'm in IL and pay a nice 5% income tax + insanely high tolls yet somehow they're not one of the states where this sales tax applies - seems out of character for them.

Martin · January 26, 2019 6:40PM

Washington state does not have a sales tax on collectable coins
So no sale tax is due the state. Who keeps the 10%?

Martin

Coinstartled · January 26, 2019 6:54PM

Probably a good time to liquidate. Transaction costs have taken out the magic goose.

Pre sales tax and when fees were low, you could buy a coin just to check it out. Flip it if you wanted for maybe a 5% cost.

Now it is 20 or 25 %.

We are getting back to the brick and mortar days where you bought and held for a long time.

DCW · January 26, 2019 6:55PM

@Martin said:
Washington state does not have a sales tax on collectable coins
So no sale tax is due the state. Who keeps the 10%?

Martin

I believe he (the buyer in Washington) bought it from Rick Snow (seller in Arizona.)

291fifth · January 26, 2019 7:04PM

@Coinstartled said:
Probably a good time to liquidate. Transaction costs have taken out the magic goose.

Pre sales tax and when fees were low, you could buy a coin just to check it out. Flip it if you wanted for maybe a 5% cost.

Now it is 20 or 25 %.

We are getting back to the brick and mortar days where you bought and held for a long time.

The problem is that the outlook for the long term hold looks dismal. There's more trouble in River City, more terrible trouble!

Martin · January 26, 2019 7:11PM

@DCW said:

@Martin said:
Washington state does not have a sales tax on collectable coins
So no sale tax is due the state. Who keeps the 10%?

Martin

I believe he (the buyer in Washington) bought it from Rick Snow (seller in Arizona.)

Now I'm scratching my head is e bay paying AZ or where the goods were delivered. In Washington if you buy a product in OR and bring it back to WA you are liable to pay WA If an ore buyer buys a taxable product and takes it back to OR no tax is due. Just bought a car in ID did not pay sale tax in ID but had to pay it in WA. So the question is is the tax due in tbe state the product is sold in or the state delivered too?

Martin

Ps this the most I've typed on a phone ever. Excuse the typos and old fat fingers

MWallace · January 26, 2019 7:34PM

@jmlanzaf said:

Actually, the Supreme Court ruled that it was constitutional - which is why the States did it.

The Supreme Court long ago veered from their constitutional duties and now legislate from the bench. I don't wish to get into a political discussion here so this is the last I'll comment on this subject.

jmlanzaf · January 26, 2019 7:36PM

Now I'm scratching my head is e bay paying AZ or where the goods were delivered. In Washington if you buy a product in OR and bring it back to WA you are liable to pay WA If an ore buyer buys a taxable product and takes it back to OR no tax is due. Just bought a car in ID did not pay sale tax in ID but had to pay it in WA. So the question is is the tax due in tbe state the product is sold in or the state delivered too?

Martin

Ps this the most I've typed on a phone ever. Excuse the typos and old fat fingers

It's Washington State sales taxes charged where the buyer resides. That's how all these new State sales taxes are designed to work

Coinstartled · January 26, 2019 7:55PM

@291fifth said:

@Coinstartled said:
Probably a good time to liquidate. Transaction costs have taken out the magic goose.

Pre sales tax and when fees were low, you could buy a coin just to check it out. Flip it if you wanted for maybe a 5% cost.

Now it is 20 or 25 %.

We are getting back to the brick and mortar days where you bought and held for a long time.

The problem is that the outlook for the long term hold looks dismal. There's more trouble in River City, more terrible trouble!

May or may not be true. Problem is a guy that wants to sell off a set of Indian Cents and collect Trade Dollars, the once reasonable cost of doing so are now prohibitive. Of course the sun is always shining brightly in error coin land.

mannie gray · January 26, 2019 10:47PM

@PhilLynott said:
Curious are the states on the list linked above ones with high income tax rates and/or tolls as well? I'm in IL and pay a nice 5% income tax + insanely high tolls yet somehow they're not one of the states where this sales tax applies - seems out of character for them.

Just wait.
Let's not poke the fat Illinois tax bear, please!

batumi · January 27, 2019 2:14AM

@PhilLynott said:
Curious are the states on the list linked above ones with high income tax rates and/or tolls as well? I'm in IL and pay a nice 5% income tax + insanely high tolls yet somehow they're not one of the states where this sales tax applies - seems out of character for them.

I lived in Chicago for a few years, and so far coins and bullion are exempt from sales taxes- I believe the sales tax has soared to over 10% in Chicago! SSShhh Don't give them any ideas as the hopelessly corrupt government there has yet to see a revenue source they don't like.

batumi · January 27, 2019 2:21AM

@FadeToBlack said:
I was planning to go get that DE PO Box next week...

Possibly coin shows will become more popular as a bright spot in this gov't fubar. I loved going to shows and used to get a table at some of the shows in the N. IL area. A big negative of living abroad is I am unable to attend these shows.

blitzdude · January 27, 2019 3:37AM

@AlexinPA said:
No taxation without representation!

God bless the Commonwealth and god bless eBay. Still tax free on coins and bullion

Coins101 · January 27, 2019 9:18AM

@Martin said:
Washington state does not have a sales tax on collectable coins
So no sale tax is due the state. Who keeps the 10%?

Martin

WA State gets it. WA State has a destination type sales tax meaning the sales tax rate is based upon where the item is delivered (where the buyer takes possession of it). I recently talked with the WA State Dept. of Revenue about being overcharged sales tax (instate seller charged their local rate rather than my rate) and was informed the state would collect what he charged when he filed his return - if he coded the sale incorrectly using his location as the point of sale. Otherwise, the seller would not remit it, if coded correctly, and he should refund the overpayment.

Yeah, right - refund it!!! BS!!!

TwoSides2aCoin · January 27, 2019 9:25AM

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. (Let me clarify). I was referring to Joe Public as the nicer guy

BAJJERFAN · January 27, 2019 9:34AM

@MWallace said:

@JimTyler said:

@MWallace said:
Who is collecting the tax to turn over to the state/county/city, eBay or the seller?

Ebay

Thank you. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but my argument would be that I didn't but anything from eBay, therefore they can't charge me tax.

This is a money making proposition for eBay. In my state, retail businesses keep a percentage of the taxes they collect for administrative purposes incurred submitting the collected taxes to the government.

eBay is only an agent collecting for the states. They are in the best position to do this. It only makes sense that "tax collectors" be reimbursed for "administrative" expenses. Does someone like WalMart eat the CC fee when they collect ST and I pay with a CC or do the CC companies waive the fee when a merchant collects taxes?

BAJJERFAN · January 27, 2019 9:37AM

@Martin said:
Washington state does not have a sales tax on collectable coins
So no sale tax is due the state. Who keeps the 10%?

Martin

eBay should have a system setup to refund those taxes I would think. It was discussed here in another thread recently.

Kkathyl · January 27, 2019 9:45AM

It say EBay collects the tax but the seller is responsible for sending the payment to the states.
Kathy says
If the tax is not required the seller should refund the customer the tax back then no filing or forwarding of the funds will be required.

Coins101 · January 27, 2019 9:54AM

@Kkathyl said:
It say EBay collects the tax but the seller is responsible for sending the payment to the states.
Kathy says
If the tax is not required the seller should refund the customer the tax back then no filing or forwarding of the funds will be required.

Per eBay:

"Based on applicable tax laws, eBay will calculate, collect, and remit sales tax on behalf of sellers for items shipped to customers in the following states:

Minnesota
Washington
Iowa
Connecticut
New Jersey
Alabama
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania"

with various implementation dates. Hopefully in the case of WA State, the are collecting and remitting the proper amount and frankly, if sales tax has to be collected, I am glad they are doing it. WA State has hundreds of different rates and remittance codes! It is ridicules!!!

Kkathyl · January 27, 2019 9:58AM

Not always true. But I am just the dumb accountant filing the returns and sending the payment for some of those folks.

Soldi · January 27, 2019 10:01AM

@291fifth said:

@Coinstartled said:
Probably a good time to liquidate. Transaction costs have taken out the magic goose.

Pre sales tax and when fees were low, you could buy a coin just to check it out. Flip it if you wanted for maybe a 5% cost.

Now it is 20 or 25 %.

We are getting back to the brick and mortar days where you bought and held for a long time.

The problem is that the outlook for the long term hold looks dismal. There's more trouble in River City, more terrible trouble!

And specifically; "What is the terrible trouble?"

GRANDAM · January 27, 2019 10:04AM

eBay adds sales tax on where required and it is paid by the buyer via PayPal. PayPal then send the tax money back to eBay and eBay sends it to the proper states.

smalltime · January 27, 2019 10:17AM

With the new HIGHER SHIPPING RATES and the sales taxes added on it looks like it may be a tougher ride to make a profit on ebay . Now the shipping and ebay fees on some of my 8 coin sets is 29% of the cost to my customers. Not much room left for profit. Will be worse later this summer when ebay goes to the zone dim crap.

amwldcoin · January 27, 2019 11:07AM

If you are talking about postal rate zones they already started. I noticed that shipping today. 4 oz package to Jacksonville Fl. $2.68, to Indiana $2.70, and to Texas $2.76.

@smalltime said:
With the new HIGHER SHIPPING RATES and the sales taxes added on it looks like it may be a tougher ride to make a profit on ebay . Now the shipping and ebay fees on some of my 8 coin sets is 29% of the cost to my customers. Not much room left for profit. Will be worse later this summer when ebay goes to the zone dim crap.

291fifth · January 27, 2019 11:22AM

@Soldi said:

@291fifth said:

@Coinstartled said:
Probably a good time to liquidate. Transaction costs have taken out the magic goose.

Pre sales tax and when fees were low, you could buy a coin just to check it out. Flip it if you wanted for maybe a 5% cost.

Now it is 20 or 25 %.

We are getting back to the brick and mortar days where you bought and held for a long time.

The problem is that the outlook for the long term hold looks dismal. There's more trouble in River City, more terrible trouble!

And specifically; "What is the terrible trouble?"

Fewer collectors ... pure and simple. Some don't want to believe this and that is fine with me. They should just keep on buying and wait for the next big coin boom.

BAJJERFAN · January 27, 2019 11:33AM

@smalltime said:
With the new HIGHER SHIPPING RATES and the sales taxes added on it looks like it may be a tougher ride to make a profit on ebay . Now the shipping and ebay fees on some of my 8 coin sets is 29% of the cost to my customers. Not much room left for profit. Will be worse later this summer when ebay goes to the zone dim crap.

Think of the poor sap buying to try to resell. Also your LCS just sees it as less competition.

WildIdea · January 27, 2019 12:59PM

A lot is changing that's for sure. Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

This just means that I will have to be considering pieces that are rare and desirable enough that make paying sales tax irrelevant going forward with eBay.

coinpalice · January 27, 2019 1:11PM

e bay is going to have to do more 15 percent off everything coupons to make up for the lost sales from the new sales tax

jmlanzaf · January 27, 2019 1:13PM

@FSF said:
I can't speak to other states but in California, it is a "sales & use tax" so the party purchasing is responsible for remitting taxes for out of state purchases under normal circumstances. Technically speaking, and I'm not 100% sure on this, but if you bought a TV in Oregon where they have no sales tax for a $1,000, I believe the buyer is suppose to remit the CA tax amount to the Franchise Tax Board. Of course, no one actually does this.

Same in NY

jmlanzaf · January 27, 2019 1:14PM

@coinpalice said:
e bay is going to have to do more 15 percent off everything coupons to make up for the lost sales from the new sales tax

They may lose zero sales. The buyers in those states don't have much recourse: pay the sales tax at home or pay it on the internet.

BAJJERFAN · January 27, 2019 1:20PM

@coinpalice said:
e bay is going to have to do more 15 percent off everything coupons to make up for the lost sales from the new sales tax

So they're going to lose a little on every sale, but make it up in volume?

BAJJERFAN · January 27, 2019 1:27PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@coinpalice said:
e bay is going to have to do more 15 percent off everything coupons to make up for the lost sales from the new sales tax

They may lose zero sales. The buyers in those states don't have much recourse: pay the sales tax at home or pay it on the internet.

In spite of the taxes there are almost always betters prices elsewhere if one looks around. For low cost items and I'm not in a hurry, I'd just as soon buy local. At a nearby Sportsman's warehouse store a 100 count box of bullets was $40 plus tax. Mail order they were $27 plus shipping so on 2 boxes with $8 shipping it was $31 per box. Even with tax [of which there wasn't any] the mail order was still a better deal. IT PAYS TO SHOP AROUND.

jmlanzaf · January 27, 2019 2:06PM

@BAJJERFAN said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@coinpalice said:
e bay is going to have to do more 15 percent off everything coupons to make up for the lost sales from the new sales tax

They may lose zero sales. The buyers in those states don't have much recourse: pay the sales tax at home or pay it on the internet.

In spite of the taxes there are almost always betters prices elsewhere if one looks around. For low cost items and I'm not in a hurry, I'd just as soon buy local. At a nearby Sportsman's warehouse store a 100 count box of bullets was $40 plus tax. Mail order they were $27 plus shipping so on 2 boxes with $8 shipping it was $31 per box. Even with tax [of which there wasn't any] the mail order was still a better deal. IT PAYS TO SHOP AROUND.

I don't disagree. However, the eBay point is that if you are in a state that charges sales tax, you are going to pay it in both locations (internet and local)

jmlanzaf · January 27, 2019 2:46PM

@1peter1223 said:

So for now Ebay is not charging the tax on shipments to New York ?

Btw- I heard on another chat board if a company ( who DOES NOT have a physical presence in taxing state ) does less than 1 million in sales shipped to another state they do not have to charge the taxes for that state . There is a 1 million dollar threshold ?

Anyone know if this is true ?

I guess that's why the auction companies are charging taxes to NJ residents , since they obviously do more than 1 million in sales per year ?

It depends on the specific State. These are individual State laws not a Federal law.

As of now, NY has not passed a internet sales tax. They probably will, but we're just slow

OPA · January 27, 2019 3:50PM

@1peter1223 said:

@Coins101 said:

@Kkathyl said:
It say EBay collects the tax but the seller is responsible for sending the payment to the states.
Kathy says
If the tax is not required the seller should refund the customer the tax back then no filing or forwarding of the funds will be required.

Per eBay:

"Based on applicable tax laws, eBay will calculate, collect, and remit sales tax on behalf of sellers for items shipped to customers in the following states:

Minnesota
Washington
Iowa
Connecticut
New Jersey
Alabama
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania"

with various implementation dates. Hopefully in the case of WA State, the are collecting and remitting the proper amount and frankly, if sales tax has to be collected, I am glad they are doing it. WA State has hundreds of different rates and remittance codes! It is ridicules!!!

So for now Ebay is not charging the tax on shipments to New York ?

Btw- I heard on another chat board if a company ( who DOES NOT have a physical presence in taxing state ) does less than 1 million in sales shipped to another state they do not have to charge the taxes for that state . There is a 1 million dollar threshold ?

Anyone know if this is true ?

I guess that's why the auction companies are charging taxes to NJ residents , since they obviously do more than 1 million in sales per year ?

From what I understand, It's $100,000 ... with 200 or more sales.

https://files.taxfoundation.org/20180412152356/Tax-Foundation-FF579.pdf

The below web site is more current: "Economic nexus laws don’t only affect large internet retailers. Many states sales tax economic nexus policies have a threshold of 200 transactions or $100,000 in sales in the current or previous calendar year. That means they can apply to many small to medium-sized businesses."

https://www.manta.com/resources/small-business-advice/new-sales-tax-rules-affect-smb/?dest=/resources/small-business-advice/new-sales-tax-rules-affect-smb/&dest=/resources/small-business-advice/new-sales-tax-rules-affect-smb/?dest=/resources/small-business-advice/new-sales-tax-rules-affect-smb/

Just saw my first automatic state sales tax on eBay

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