@Kkathyl said:
It say EBay collects the tax but the seller is responsible for sending the payment to the states.
Kathy says
If the tax is not required the seller should refund the customer the tax back then no filing or forwarding of the funds will be required.
Per eBay:
"Based on applicable tax laws, eBay will calculate, collect, and remit sales tax on behalf of sellers for items shipped to customers in the following states:
Minnesota
Washington
Iowa
Connecticut
New Jersey
Alabama
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania"
with various implementation dates. Hopefully in the case of WA State, the are collecting and remitting the proper amount and frankly, if sales tax has to be collected, I am glad they are doing it. WA State has hundreds of different rates and remittance codes! It is ridicules!!!
So for now Ebay is not charging the tax on shipments to New York ?
Btw- I heard on another chat board if a company ( who DOES NOT have a physical presence in taxing state ) does less than 1 million in sales shipped to another state they do not have to charge the taxes for that state . There is a 1 million dollar threshold ?
Anyone know if this is true ?
I guess that's why the auction companies are charging taxes to NJ residents , since they obviously do more than 1 million in sales per year ?
From what I understand, It's $100,000 ... with 200 or more sales.
The below web site is more current: "Economic nexus laws don’t only affect large internet retailers. Many states sales tax economic nexus policies have a threshold of 200 transactions or $100,000 in sales in the current or previous calendar year. That means they can apply to many small to medium-sized businesses."
The original south Dakota law in the Wayfair case was 200 and 100,000. I don't believe those limits have anything to do with other states. The SC ruled that the State had the right to levy the tax. I don't believe they put any limits on it.
@coinpalice said:
e bay is going to have to do more 15 percent off everything coupons to make up for the lost sales from the new sales tax
They may lose zero sales. The buyers in those states don't have much recourse: pay the sales tax at home or pay it on the internet.
In spite of the taxes there are almost always betters prices elsewhere if one looks around. For low cost items and I'm not in a hurry, I'd just as soon buy local. At a nearby Sportsman's warehouse store a 100 count box of bullets was $40 plus tax. Mail order they were $27 plus shipping so on 2 boxes with $8 shipping it was $31 per box. Even with tax [of which there wasn't any] the mail order was still a better deal. IT PAYS TO SHOP AROUND.
I don't disagree. However, the eBay point is that if you are in a state that charges sales tax, you are going to pay it in both locations (internet and local)
Yep, but no need to pay the piper any more than you have/choose to.
So ebay is collecting these taxes since they are apparently considered an auction house with millions of dollars and transactions in the named states .
Technically ebay never has physical possession of the goods and has no written contract to sell them . Smh.
Even if it is a small and casual seller with minimal sales/transactions in the named states , since they are listed on ebay the members in the mentioned states are taxed .
eBay likely grudgingly agreed to collect them for the sellers, since they are in the best position to do so. Also it likely helps them to retain sellers. What is it about that simple concept that some don't get?
@PhilLynott said:
Curious are the states on the list linked above ones with high income tax rates and/or tolls as well? I'm in IL and pay a nice 5% income tax + insanely high tolls yet somehow they're not one of the states where this sales tax applies - seems out of character for them.
A lot of poor financial position blue states , some bankrupt like IL , new jersey
So for now Ebay is not charging the tax on shipments to New York ?
Btw- I heard on another chat board if a company ( who DOES NOT have a physical presence in taxing state ) does less than 1 million in sales shipped to another state they do not have to charge the taxes for that state . There is a 1 million dollar threshold ?
Anyone know if this is true ?
I guess that's why the auction companies are charging taxes to NJ residents , since they obviously do more than 1 million in sales per year ?
It depends on the specific State. These are individual State laws not a Federal law.
As of now, NY has not passed a internet sales tax. They probably will, but we're just slow
Iowa has had a "mail order" tax on the books since 1934 I believe.
@coinpalice said:
e bay is going to have to do more 15 percent off everything coupons to make up for the lost sales from the new sales tax
They may lose zero sales. The buyers in those states don't have much recourse: pay the sales tax at home or pay it on the internet.
Ebay fought hard against this for many years. Certainly takes away an advantage to buying online.
That's true. But there is still advantages over B&M establishments due to lower cost structures. While it may add a few percent to an eBay transaction, it's not clear that it wipes out all advantage to the buyer.
@coinpalice said:
e bay is going to have to do more 15 percent off everything coupons to make up for the lost sales from the new sales tax
They may lose zero sales. The buyers in those states don't have much recourse: pay the sales tax at home or pay it on the internet.
Ebay fought hard against this for many years. Certainly takes away an advantage to buying online.
That's true. But there is still advantages over B&M establishments due to lower cost structures. While it may add a few percent to an eBay transaction, it's not clear that it wipes out all advantage to the buyer.
Agree with that. A friend with a B&M jewelry store was pleased that the playing field has been leveled. I certainly cannot argue with that as the small business folks have been getting hosed for a number of years. It will be interesting to see where this all shakes out.
Possibly coin shows will become more popular as a bright spot in this gov't fubar. I loved going to shows and used to get a table at some of the shows in the N. IL area. A big negative of living abroad is I am unable to attend these shows.
Some (many?) states require dealers set up at shows a certain number of days per year to get tax licenses and collect sales tax. More likely dealers will have to eat the taxes as no one is going to pay an extra 6.75% on top of what they've negotiated at a show.
i must say, if that was a large dollar coin that Rick sold to the guy in Washington st. And I was the buyer I would likely not pay the 10% tax because it is not owed. If it were a piece of cheap dreck I'd just pony up the few extra. Just saying
This tax issue is going to get messy for eBay the logistics issues alone will be costly
So, if the new tax rate on my income over $50 million is 70%, and they uncap the limit on paying FICA and medicare, which I don't pay over $132,000 right now, and since I am self employed, I have to pay 15.30%, and I live in California, where the income tax rate is $13.3% in my bracket, then I have to pay 98.6% in income taxes?
Although it's not good news for the coin industry, it's not the end of the world.
Dealers still have their normal exemptions as wholesalers, and not all retail situations are taxable. Legal loopholes will be utilized by collectors and dealers, and although places like eBay will become not as good a place to sell coins, I don't think it'll be "too bad" when the dust settles for the industry as a whole.
Dealers, auction houses, and eBay have already been "middle men" in charging "fees" to place coins with collectors. Auction houses charge as much as 20%, dealers have a normal "middle man" markup, and eBay charges their roughly 10%. Those "costs" have not put an end to collecting whatsoever.
Of course this isn't a good situation, and will but a dent in the hobby, but at the end of the day it'll just be a "dent."
@SullivanNumismatics said:
Although it's not good news for the coin industry, it's not the end of the world.
Dealers still have their normal exemptions as wholesalers, and not all retail situations are taxable. Legal loopholes will be utilized by collectors and dealers, and although places like eBay will become not as good a place to sell coins, I don't think it'll be "too bad" when the dust settles for the industry as a whole.
Dealers, auction houses, and eBay have already been "middle men" in charging "fees" to place coins with collectors. Auction houses charge as much as 20%, dealers have a normal "middle man" markup, and eBay charges their roughly 10%. Those "costs" have not put an end to collecting whatsoever.
Of course this isn't a good situation, and will but a dent in the hobby, but at the end of the day it'll just be a "dent."
I need to get into the error coin business. Seems that you fellas enjoy margins that weather any storm. Printed a 4 ounce label on Ebay last night and it jumped 16% from $2.66 to $3.09. The guys selling straight and fairly graded PCGS holdered coins are getting clubbed with the escalated obstacles to profitability.
@OPA said:
I don't believe that your occasional seller with less than 200 transaction per year, will be affected by this law. That's my take.
It's true of a private web site, it is not true of eBay or Amazon users. The laws were written to prevent sell throughs.
Ebay and Amazon sellers who fall below the threshold should not be affected by the law other than to lose potential buyers who are affected by ebay's implementation of the law across the board for all purchases.
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?
I'll make life easier for everyone who chooses to read and listen. If you sell on E-bay, they are acting as your agent. Hence, they are required to collect sales / use tax where applicable.
Different states have different gross sales levels at which a vendor must have a sales tax permit to do business in the states. An agent has legal liability if it misrepresents its client. If you sell on E-Bay, it is acting as your bona-fide agent.
E-bay doesn't want to get entangled with any of these legal hassles, so if you are selling tangible personal property in a state which tax such, sales tax will be levied and remitted to said state.
Legitimate re-sellers - dealer to dealer sales, or sales abroad - are either going to have to convince e-bay that they are in fact re-sellers and get E-bay to accept their sales tax permit, which is a hassle for E-bay, or else pay the sales tax on these items and "have fun" getting said tax back from the various states, or from E-bay. Good luck with that.
A work around is for sellers of coins in interstate commerce, retail and commercial, to familiarize themselves with all of the state permit laws, and state and local tax rates, and do this themselves.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@OPA said:
I don't believe that your occasional seller with less than 200 transaction per year, will be affected by this law. That's my take.
The limits are for each state, not national totals, correct?
There are not necessarily ANY limits. It's a function of each individual state's laws. If the Commonwealth of Joe passed a law that required collection of tax on every single item from every single seller, that would be the law. (Huge enforcement problem, but that's another matter.)
@OPA said:
I don't believe that your occasional seller with less than 200 transaction per year, will be affected by this law. That's my take.
It's true of a private web site, it is not true of eBay or Amazon users. The laws were written to prevent sell throughs.
Ebay and Amazon sellers who fall below the threshold should not be affected by the law other than to lose potential buyers who are affected by ebay's implementation of the law across the board for all purchases.
This is not true. Some States specifically passed laws covering "marketplaces". Mostly aimed at Amazon originally, but also others like eBay.
@OPA said:
I don't believe that your occasional seller with less than 200 transaction per year, will be affected by this law. That's my take.
The limits are for each state, not national totals, correct?
Correct. That's the way I read it. I've purchased numerous bullion items from "smaller ebay sellers," and non have charged a sales tax. Only the big boys have.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
@OPA said:
I don't believe that your occasional seller with less than 200 transaction per year, will be affected by this law. That's my take.
The limits are for each state, not national totals, correct?
Correct. That's the way I read it. I've purchased numerous bullion items from "smaller ebay sellers," and non have charged a sales tax. Only the big boys have.
I'm not sure what State you are in, but there is not necessarily a small tax exemption in all States. Minnesota, for example, has one, but it isn't clear that they all do.
For example, here's Pennsylvania's law that places totals upon the "MARKETPLACE FACILITATOR" not the individual seller. So if eBay sells more than $10k to Pennsylvania, it needs to comply with the tax collection for Pennsylvania.
on-line sellers (i.e. individual websites) that do not have a marketplace "facilitator" such as Amazon or ebay taking care of out of state sales tax billing, collection and remittance are themselves subject to the varying new state tax laws.
Many states have thresholds, limits or exemptions for "sellers" that are different than those for "facilitators." The seller not being serviced by a facilitator for sale tax obligations is himself responsible for reviewing and complyinig with the laws of each state. For example your above example above for PA is for facilitators. This portion of the PA law sets the following threshold on what they refer to as marketplace sellers vs. marketplace facilitators:
"A marketplace seller who does not maintain a place of business in the Commonwealth may be subject to the Remote Seller provisions if it makes sales through a marketplace facilitator and makes direct taxable sales to Pennsylvania customers in excess of $10,000 during the prior 12-month period."
And, because the states are setting different limits/thresholds on facilitators than they are for sellers, if you are selling through a facilitator your individual seller limits/thresholds will take back seat (not apply) to those forced on the facilitator. Keep in mind that the facilitator's limits/thresholds are the total for all of their sellers, so it is very unlikely they expect to fall under the limits/thresholds and will therefore be applying the tax to all sales in each state. There will be no "little guy" when it comes to the facilitator tacking on a sales tax.
It becomes apparent that on-line sellers not conducting their business through a marketplace facilitator now have the burden of learning and keeping abreast of sales tax laws for 50 different states. Thank you ebay, my facilitator.
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?
So if there is an exemption in Washington for coins and you pay the 10%. You should keep your invoices and send them to the tax authority monthly or quarterly in Washington state and demand your money back. Also If you are dealer with a valid transaction tax licence, you can reclaim your tax paid.
You have to look at it the same way you look at income tax withholding. They take it, you have to get it back. You'll get a big refund check when they pay, though.
It's extra work, if it is too much to handle, perhaps a HR firm or yout tax accountant would take this issue on for you.
Rick. I have to disagree with your statement of the buyer reclaming their tax back in Washington. That is not the way it works here. The vendor is the tax collector for the state. The vendor is responsible to collect and report. I'm guessing the best way for your customer to get the deserved refund would be from eBay. I'm also guessing eBay is opening them selfs up for a class action. If they collect a bunch of un warranted taxes
@EagleEye said:
So if there is an exemption in Washington for coins and you pay the 10%. You should keep your invoices and send them to the tax authority monthly or quarterly in Washington state and demand your money back. Also If you are dealer with a valid transaction tax licence, you can reclaim your tax paid.
You have to look at it the same way you look at income tax withholding. They take it, you have to get it back. You'll get a big refund check when they pay, though.
It's extra work, if it is too much to handle, perhaps a HR firm or yout tax accountant would take this issue on for you.
Save your receipts.
Rick, I looked at your items and tried putting them in the cart to see if it would tax them. It didn't.
Still not sure why your customer got hit by tax for a coin/bullion (assuming it was in the right category, which I am sure it was for you) as no tax showed up for me.
He needs to contact ebay and make sure that his home of record is Washington State and that ebay hasn't done something else to screw him up.
I am in Texas, and if I pay sales tax through a purchase on ebay, on an item that I am exempt from paying sales tax, I just put the amount paid on Line 7 of my Sales and Use Tax form as a prepaid tax, and it is removed from my required tax payment.
So, bottom line, I am not hurt by the sales tax, if it is collected in error.
Right now, Texas is not in the shooting match, but I am ready if it does.
Comments
The original south Dakota law in the Wayfair case was 200 and 100,000. I don't believe those limits have anything to do with other states. The SC ruled that the State had the right to levy the tax. I don't believe they put any limits on it.
Yep, but no need to pay the piper any more than you have/choose to.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
eBay likely grudgingly agreed to collect them for the sellers, since they are in the best position to do so. Also it likely helps them to retain sellers. What is it about that simple concept that some don't get?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
A lot of poor financial position blue states , some bankrupt like IL , new jersey
I don't believe that your occasional seller with less than 200 transaction per year, will be affected by this law. That's my take.
Ebay fought hard against this for many years. Certainly takes away an advantage to buying online.
I guess I'll just start buying more from international sellers
Iowa has had a "mail order" tax on the books since 1934 I believe.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
It's true of a private web site, it is not true of eBay or Amazon users. The laws were written to prevent sell throughs.
That's true. But there is still advantages over B&M establishments due to lower cost structures. While it may add a few percent to an eBay transaction, it's not clear that it wipes out all advantage to the buyer.
Agree with that. A friend with a B&M jewelry store was pleased that the playing field has been leveled. I certainly cannot argue with that as the small business folks have been getting hosed for a number of years. It will be interesting to see where this all shakes out.
Some (many?) states require dealers set up at shows a certain number of days per year to get tax licenses and collect sales tax. More likely dealers will have to eat the taxes as no one is going to pay an extra 6.75% on top of what they've negotiated at a show.
i must say, if that was a large dollar coin that Rick sold to the guy in Washington st. And I was the buyer I would likely not pay the 10% tax because it is not owed. If it were a piece of cheap dreck I'd just pony up the few extra. Just saying
This tax issue is going to get messy for eBay the logistics issues alone will be costly
Martin
Has eBay given an official announcement of how to go about recovering sales taxes that were improperly charged?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
So, if the new tax rate on my income over $50 million is 70%, and they uncap the limit on paying FICA and medicare, which I don't pay over $132,000 right now, and since I am self employed, I have to pay 15.30%, and I live in California, where the income tax rate is $13.3% in my bracket, then I have to pay 98.6% in income taxes?
How am I going to pay sales tax now?
Although it's not good news for the coin industry, it's not the end of the world.
Dealers still have their normal exemptions as wholesalers, and not all retail situations are taxable. Legal loopholes will be utilized by collectors and dealers, and although places like eBay will become not as good a place to sell coins, I don't think it'll be "too bad" when the dust settles for the industry as a whole.
Dealers, auction houses, and eBay have already been "middle men" in charging "fees" to place coins with collectors. Auction houses charge as much as 20%, dealers have a normal "middle man" markup, and eBay charges their roughly 10%. Those "costs" have not put an end to collecting whatsoever.
Of course this isn't a good situation, and will but a dent in the hobby, but at the end of the day it'll just be a "dent."
I need to get into the error coin business. Seems that you fellas enjoy margins that weather any storm. Printed a 4 ounce label on Ebay last night and it jumped 16% from $2.66 to $3.09. The guys selling straight and fairly graded PCGS holdered coins are getting clubbed with the escalated obstacles to profitability.
Just bought an athletic jersey from a large seller in KY (over 52,000 feedback, so very large!) and no sales tax was collected.
WOW! It's not just here! I just sold a Seashell to someone in Australia and ebay has now started collecting tax for Australia!
The limits are for each state, not national totals, correct?
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?
Ebay and Amazon sellers who fall below the threshold should not be affected by the law other than to lose potential buyers who are affected by ebay's implementation of the law across the board for all purchases.
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?
Let's all just use Dan Carr Amero's for coin purchase transactions. Or invent our own coin purchase currency like the Ithica Hour.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
DWN is based in Oregon which has no sales tax, but he just started charging sales tax on sales to buyers in a larger list of states including NY:
https://raregoldcoins.com/rare-gold-coin-inventory/just-added-2000-1871-cc-pcgs-au55
NY Tax on this coin would be over $6400!
I'll make life easier for everyone who chooses to read and listen. If you sell on E-bay, they are acting as your agent. Hence, they are required to collect sales / use tax where applicable.
Different states have different gross sales levels at which a vendor must have a sales tax permit to do business in the states. An agent has legal liability if it misrepresents its client. If you sell on E-Bay, it is acting as your bona-fide agent.
E-bay doesn't want to get entangled with any of these legal hassles, so if you are selling tangible personal property in a state which tax such, sales tax will be levied and remitted to said state.
Legitimate re-sellers - dealer to dealer sales, or sales abroad - are either going to have to convince e-bay that they are in fact re-sellers and get E-bay to accept their sales tax permit, which is a hassle for E-bay, or else pay the sales tax on these items and "have fun" getting said tax back from the various states, or from E-bay. Good luck with that.
A work around is for sellers of coins in interstate commerce, retail and commercial, to familiarize themselves with all of the state permit laws, and state and local tax rates, and do this themselves.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
What state are YOU in?
There are not necessarily ANY limits. It's a function of each individual state's laws. If the Commonwealth of Joe passed a law that required collection of tax on every single item from every single seller, that would be the law. (Huge enforcement problem, but that's another matter.)
This is not true. Some States specifically passed laws covering "marketplaces". Mostly aimed at Amazon originally, but also others like eBay.
[https://avalara.com/us/en/blog/2018/10/marketplace-sales-tax-laws-proliferate-in-wake-of-south-dakota-v-wayfair.html](https://avalara.com/us/en/blog/2018/10/marketplace-sales-tax-laws-proliferate-in-wake-of-south-dakota-v-wayfair.html "https://avalara.com/us/en/blog/2018/10/marketplace-sales-tax-laws-proliferate-in-wake-of-south-dakota-v-wayfair.html")
Correct. That's the way I read it. I've purchased numerous bullion items from "smaller ebay sellers," and non have charged a sales tax. Only the big boys have.
Mum's the word. Let's not give them any ideas. I fled NY for PA the year I retired.
funny, but not a solution. The tax is on the purchase not the currency. Only barter would be exempted> @OPA said:
I'm not sure what State you are in, but there is not necessarily a small tax exemption in all States. Minnesota, for example, has one, but it isn't clear that they all do.
For example, here's Pennsylvania's law that places totals upon the "MARKETPLACE FACILITATOR" not the individual seller. So if eBay sells more than $10k to Pennsylvania, it needs to comply with the tax collection for Pennsylvania.
https://revenue.pa.gov/GeneralTaxInformation/Tax%20Types%20and%20Information/SUT/MarketPlaceSales/Pages/Marketplace-Facilitators.aspx
on-line sellers (i.e. individual websites) that do not have a marketplace "facilitator" such as Amazon or ebay taking care of out of state sales tax billing, collection and remittance are themselves subject to the varying new state tax laws.
Many states have thresholds, limits or exemptions for "sellers" that are different than those for "facilitators." The seller not being serviced by a facilitator for sale tax obligations is himself responsible for reviewing and complyinig with the laws of each state. For example your above example above for PA is for facilitators. This portion of the PA law sets the following threshold on what they refer to as marketplace sellers vs. marketplace facilitators:
"A marketplace seller who does not maintain a place of business in the Commonwealth may be subject to the Remote Seller provisions if it makes sales through a marketplace facilitator and makes direct taxable sales to Pennsylvania customers in excess of $10,000 during the prior 12-month period."
And, because the states are setting different limits/thresholds on facilitators than they are for sellers, if you are selling through a facilitator your individual seller limits/thresholds will take back seat (not apply) to those forced on the facilitator. Keep in mind that the facilitator's limits/thresholds are the total for all of their sellers, so it is very unlikely they expect to fall under the limits/thresholds and will therefore be applying the tax to all sales in each state. There will be no "little guy" when it comes to the facilitator tacking on a sales tax.
It becomes apparent that on-line sellers not conducting their business through a marketplace facilitator now have the burden of learning and keeping abreast of sales tax laws for 50 different states. Thank you ebay, my facilitator.
Are they really this stupid, or are they destroying the dollar on purpose?
So if there is an exemption in Washington for coins and you pay the 10%. You should keep your invoices and send them to the tax authority monthly or quarterly in Washington state and demand your money back. Also If you are dealer with a valid transaction tax licence, you can reclaim your tax paid.
You have to look at it the same way you look at income tax withholding. They take it, you have to get it back. You'll get a big refund check when they pay, though.
It's extra work, if it is too much to handle, perhaps a HR firm or yout tax accountant would take this issue on for you.
Save your receipts.
Coin shows might now actually see far more floor traffic...
So this internet tax could just be what it takes to keep coin shows from becoming extinct.
Rick. I have to disagree with your statement of the buyer reclaming their tax back in Washington. That is not the way it works here. The vendor is the tax collector for the state. The vendor is responsible to collect and report. I'm guessing the best way for your customer to get the deserved refund would be from eBay. I'm also guessing eBay is opening them selfs up for a class action. If they collect a bunch of un warranted taxes
I hope your customer wasn't Bochiman 😄
Martin
Rick, I looked at your items and tried putting them in the cart to see if it would tax them. It didn't.
Still not sure why your customer got hit by tax for a coin/bullion (assuming it was in the right category, which I am sure it was for you) as no tax showed up for me.
He needs to contact ebay and make sure that his home of record is Washington State and that ebay hasn't done something else to screw him up.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I am in Texas, and if I pay sales tax through a purchase on ebay, on an item that I am exempt from paying sales tax, I just put the amount paid on Line 7 of my Sales and Use Tax form as a prepaid tax, and it is removed from my required tax payment.
So, bottom line, I am not hurt by the sales tax, if it is collected in error.
Right now, Texas is not in the shooting match, but I am ready if it does.
Heh
No sales tax on the BST
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set