Tradedollarnut's gradeflation threads have forced me to leave the hobby.
Coinstartled
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Merry Christmas you guys!
17
Comments
Its a double edged sword, and there is a good point
Steve
LOL. Leave the hobby? So you write. Let's take bets that you don't.
Fake news!!
To me his comments just go full circle. Third party grading came into existence to combat over grading. It has performed that service, not perfectly, but well enough to curb the worst excesses of the market. Now a major dealer is calling for the TPGs to back to the bad old days.
I accepted the fact that MS-61 and 62 coins were often sliders. That reflects the market because a high end slider can be worth as much or more than a scruffy Mint State piece. I draw the line when Choice AUs become MS-63 and higher, because in the areas that interest me, that extra point frequently results in significant price increases.
What are you going to do with the real MS-63s and MS-64s? Are you going to say that they are now MS-65 and 66? Then what numbers do you put on the super Gems? Are they now MS-70s?
Dealers need to think up better ways to get higher prices than pushing for grade-flatiron.
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We will miss you. Till next year.
L'Chaim!
I know you're joking, but grade inflation has seriously turned many collectors away from this hobby - myself included. I haven't bought a coin for my personal collection in three years - I've only bought stuff that I could flip for a profit and quickly.
And the forum?
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
I have limited my search for coins to only 3 - All 1807 or earlier. I highly doubt any new coins in the grades I am looking for will be 'made.' There aren't many around, and I'm only going to buy coins that are all there for the grade. I'll be lucky if I find one of them in a year.
I have not bought any coins in the last 2 1/2 years. I think almost every gem or better coin which is not genuinely a rare coin, minted since around 1860 forward, has lost value in the last ten years.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Grading drove me out of the Hobby in about 1978 . Oh and I was trying to make it in College and was flat broke for a while. Joined the US Army and saw the World while toting an M-16 from 1980 - 1984. Went back to Schooling for a number of years and lived the minimum wage lifestyle until my big break in 1994 ( Chrysler Corp Job 🤑). The State Quarters Program pulled me back in 1999 and the US Mint owned me for years. Now, with their poor designs , I'm almost free of their control.
I've rediscovered Sports Collecting after a break , so it's Good Bye US Mint/hello Topps Company. Last night I splurged on an Autographed Baseball, Autographed MLB Jersey, AND a 1 of 1 VERY LIMITED Baseball Card. All of this came in a bit over $2 K. A bargain when compared to my US Mint habit in the early years.
Following MLB and the NFL again are far more entertaining than Coins .... any day of the week. Who knows, maybe this Summer I'll finally make it to the Football Hall of Fame in Canton and the Baseball Hall in Cooperstown.
Spring Training Baseball in Florida or Arizona ? Maybe. Sounds like a good way to enjoy Money ..... other than idolizing it.
Sorry to hear that but I hope you'll take time to tell your friends on the ball card forum how you feel.
Funny. It was idiot dealers who drove me to becoming one. I thought, " This is easy : being an idiot "
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but I agree with you and:
Not only that, but everything about grading numismatic coins is a total mess to a newbie. Now you need stickers, now you need your coin in the right TPG plastic to maximize value. Now you find out that a 63 has wear. And then there is technical grading and market grading. And someone out there is making a whole pile of money off collectors because of all of these complications and the time it takes to learn about them. But wait therez more. Many if not most, numismatic coins have been doctored or messed with at some level. Imagine the enthusiasm of someone coming into the hobby with this kind of stuff going on. Many have told me the early mistakes by collectors are 'tuition' to learn how to do it right. How many early collectors paid Harvard tuition for a junior college education? Yikes easy to see why numismatic collectors are becoming fewer every day.
There are hordes of folks who instead collect bullion coins with nice designs that are cheaper and the world around them is less complicated, and their metal holds the value. You see them lining up at shows at the bullion dealers when the rest of the bourse is like a freeway with no traffic jams. Lots of Youtube channels/videos on bullion collecting, but numismatic coin collecting, few and far between.
Numismatic coins - as long as all of these grading complications exist, there is nuthin but trouble down the road.
Happy Holidays!
Best, SH
@spacehayduke - Happy holidays to you as well!
Good discussion. Unusual to have a thread go on the rails rather than vice versa.
At least we had a better month than the SP500.
Leave the hobby if you want but keep posting on the forum. I didn't know what to think of you when I first came back to the coin forum earlier this year...but I have come to a point where I look forward to your replies!
I have nothing to add other than to increase my post count & to ask the op, how many times did the slabs hit you when you left
Is that a back handed compliment?
That was not my intention and I apologize if it sounded that way. I just remember reading a couple of things @Coinstartled posted and thinking, "What"? Lol.
Hmmm
Add to that coins that have been graded in the last few years that would garner a details grade in the past.
Go ignore it next time
You know, if you walk into a coin shop, attend a coin show or go on Ebay, you can pick up a beautiful historic silver Morgan dollar for 20-$30. No plastic or green beans needed.
That O6 Barber half needed to be sent back to PCGS for grading guarantee refund process, lest I am being naive.
Gradeflation : I think it's great when collectors can tell it's palpable.
I recall the pre-slab days (early 1980's) when raw coins filling the cases of respectable dealers at the Westchester show had cleaning, wear, AT, or damage concealed from unsuspecting buyers.
TPG was a godsend, and for the first 20 years you could rely on pop reports for very high-end grades to be STABLE. All of us commem collectors knew where the 7 MS68 Antietams were, for example, and when I saw one for sale on a national website I called Larry Shepherd who immediately recognized that it had to be a stolen coin.
Fast forward to the last 12 years when hundreds of new MS68's have been made for the series, and a funky MS65 Gettysburg I sold to a dealer last month is now in an MS67 holder, and you have to wonder if the entire inflated grading system has suffered cardiac arrest , maybe kept on life support temporarily by CAC.
Edited for grammar
Commems and Early Type
Glicker. What will be your new handle when you return?
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Catbert Avenger!
This discontent/disillusionment is growing among collectors. While I do not see it as rampant as many seem to feel, (and I am not a dealer or high volume collector), there is enough to recognize it as an issue. I see the cure to be real, documented standards, applied through AI computer grading. This would be totally repeatable and clearly defined. Yes, it would shake up the industry, but so did TPG's and CAC. Progress... if we are not progressing, we stagnate and die. Cheers, RickO
So how many here believe this recently graded Barber Half deserves to be in a 58 holder? It's priced $1-2,000.00 less than what others have sold for. WCCO has one listed for around $3500.00. Be sure and enlarge the pictures. I assume those are planchet striations....look like adjustment marks and hopefully are not PMD! The Rev. seems to be on the edge of Environmental Damage also. Could be the pictures but looks like a dull lifeless turd to me! This IMHO is what is killing many areas of the market. Someone like @soldi will use it as leverage to buy a far superior coin!
https://ebay.com/itm/1908-S-US-Silver-50C-Barber-Half-Dollar-PCGS-AU58/303004899070
I don't know if I understand this one here. Now then, am I becoming the standard for "hornswaggled" around here?
The green stuff on the inside of the lettering on that Barber half is very disturbing. That looks like environmental damage to me. Silver can turn greeen like that in extreme cases. I also agree with you that the luster is dull and lifeless for an AU-58.
The "adjustment marks" are really roller marks. That is the one aspect of this coin that does not pose a problem at the assigned grade level.
I think if they are roller marks they should be listed on the holder as they are a big distraction to me!
I don't think that I have ever seen roller marks listed on a slab label. The only time when they would come into play with the grade is if the coin was an MS-66 or higher. In the old days, that used to keep and otherwise high grade coin from the getting the extra point or two.
For those who might be confused. roller marks are parallel lines that are imparted on the sheet when the ingots of metal are flattened and spread out to the thickness of the finished coin. They are marks or defects that were on the rollers. The planchets are punched out from the sheets of metal. When the coin is struck, those lines were not obliterated by the die. That area of the hair detail is in the deepest recesses of the die, and the metal flow was not strong enough there to flatten out the lines.
Well the 58 grade in AU is the 65-66 of 58's!
AU-58 is a circulated coin grade, and as such more defects of this sort are usually considered to be part of the game. As a collector, you are certainly free to reject a coin with this issue, but many collectors can ignore it.
I certainly understand if this bothers you. Years ago I passed on a Dahlonega Mint $5 gold because of roller marks.
I meant to say of AU-58 is the 65-66 of AU grades....though I doubt it would change your opinion of my stance on the coin.
Man these discussions can be so enlightening. Now, the macro to that 1908-S, well I don't know. I think that's a relatively nice coin, perhaps I need to visit my obstetrician and have my eyes checked.
Why don't you buy it? It's priced right!
If you check out the AU-55 graded 1908-S half dollars on the "Coin Facts" site, you might see the difference.
I too like this coin and the grade. I like the full obverse and reverse detail which shows light rub and a few handling marks consistent with AU grade.
Whatever those marks are on the 08-S half kills it for me....at any grade. I just don't like the coin and would not buy it.
**_I don't know why. Why would I ? I don't know
very flashy, not pecky. My bad pictures and all. Paid way over and won't regret it in the next 0 to 5 years.
_**
Do you like this coin?
the coin photos are 25x enlarged you realize?
No! and I don't like his photograph either, but I can return his coin for about $5.
Okay, knucklehead that I am. I didn't realize it was on coin facts and I would be wasting my time with the view of the picture that the dealer posted.
Man these discussions can be so enlightening. Now, the macro to that 1908-S, well I don't know. I think that's a relatively nice coin, perhaps I need to visit my obstetrician and have my eyes checked. (and I know what an obstetrician is)
pi (r squared) or a Barber half of actual size will fit into that picture approximately 44.15 times.
how many 1/2 inch pipes fit into a 1 inch pipe? do the math find for the unknown. Yah thnking two (2)? are ya?
The pictures exaggerate the defects on the coin. This thread will evolve into, like many others, a gradeflation argument that will never end.
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**Hi, I'd like to sell my coin.
Yessir, may I see it, please?
Sure, here.
Oh sir, we don't buy these.
Why not?
Well, because you don't have a label on it saying you weren't stupid.
But last time you said I was stupid to have it graded by the wrong company.
Yessir, that was then.
So, I paid the "right" company to grade and authenticate it.
Bravo, sir!
So, why won't you buy this now that it's in the holder you told me would be best.
Like I said, sir, you don't have an "I wasn't stupid" label on it.
Well, that's sort of stupid, isn't it?
Not really sir. We want to buy coins from people who weren't stupid.
Are you saying I'm stupid?
Nossir, that isn't for us to say.
But if I pay someone to ....say... I'm not stupid, then you'll buy it?
For the time being, sir.**
What's wrong with just owning and enjoying coins just because you like them, irrespective of the grade?
Topstuff---That'll teach you to try to sell a non-CACed coin to Laura.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think TDN's choice of thread title about the necessity to keep the revenue flowing was unfortunate. But I still enjoyed the discussion.
AKA Pakasmom