Let's Talk About the Rules
HeatherBoyd
Posts: 408 admin
It seems to me that some people feel they are unclear. So, in the interest of clear communication here are some explanations:
Rule 1) This is not a public forum. This is a PCGS forum paid for by PCGS and provided for PCGS customers to exchange information regarding collecting US coins. We make the rules this is not a democracy.
-- This is a forum about coins hosted by a company that grades and authenticates coins for the purpose of providing education and discussions about, you guessed it, coins. To expect, or request us to maintain an open forum is outlandish, there are other social sites for that
Rule 2) Anyone posting crude or vulgar pictures or language will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
-- We all know what an "A hole" is. just became you don't spell it out doesn't change the meaning. While I am a little more lenient than Don, and I do give warnings, multiple offenses will lead to me bringing out the ban hammer.
Rule 3) Anyone attacking another poster or making disparaging personal remarks will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
--This one has been big lately, I am doing my best to warn and discuss the matters with the individuals at fault, MOST of them are receptive and I hope will continue to post and try to be more positive, but again, multiple offenses will lead to me bringing out the ban hammer.
Rule 4) Anyone making libelous remarks concerning any individual, any company, or any other entity will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
--I have closed a number of posts doing this recently. It is also the reason for the banning of some recent "popular" members. Post your rants on facebook, this is not the place for them.
Rule 5) If you have nothing to contribute to an OP then do not post. Snide remarks and other negative comments will result in your losing your ability to post. No more warnings.
--"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." I think we all know this phrase.
Rule 6) This forum is about US Coins. If your post is not directly related to US Coins then this is the wrong forum. Do not post it or your posting privileges may be removed.
-- I am a little lenient on this if the post is positive, don't make me regret it.
Rule 7) This is a PCGS forum. Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed. Those posts will be removed and your posting privileges may be removed as well.
-- Pretty self-explanatory, again the reason for some recent bannings.
Rule 8) This forum is provided for the education and sharing of information. Not as a personal soapbox. If you want to learn and share information about US Coins you are welcome.
-- Pretty much everything you need to know about the rules in a nut-shell.
Rule 9) Your signature may contain multiple images and/or links but must be limited to a single line. If you would like additional advertising space on this site please contact our Advertising Department. Violators will have their posting privileges removed.
Rule 10) If you don't like any of the rules outlined above see Rule 1.
-- Or message me, if you can convince me why any of the rules should not be rules, I would be open hearing it.
I have recived some messages recently that some feel it is becoming hard to post on the forum, the short answer to this is, if your language is appropriate and you are not attacking a member or service, we shouldn't have a problem 
Most of these rules are just asking you to be nice to eachother, I think we can all do that.
To end on a positive note, here is a picture of Butter cuddling with my cat, Trevor:
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
Comments
Butter appears to be a puppy. How old is she?
Asking how old is the stunningly beautiful puppy? Violation of rule number six.
Me bringing this to your attention? Violation of rule number five!
Thank you.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Thank you. I hope others have taken the opportunity to read this !!!
Finally! Good job Heather! Glad to see you're keeping this train on the tracks! When I first joined this forum, I thought it would be a great opportunity to learn about this hobby, and for the most part it was. I was lost in the endless abbreviations and had never heard of a CAC sticker. It was obvious I had a lot to learn and there were members here that knew their stuff. There were some posts that confused the hell out of me, and there were some disputes and angry posts. Usually the disputes were over coin sets and values, buying n' selling. I have to say this forum is miles ahead of other "public" forums and you can carry on a civil conversation about coin related subjects quite easily. If your puppy and cat can get along so well, so can the rest of us.
Thank you for bringing this up! It gave me a good chuckle, Please read my explanation under #6, there's wiggle room so long as it is positive, while some could consider this snide, I created this thread for the purpose of discussing these rules, so, therefore, your comment is on topic
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
@HeatherBoyd I recognize the over-riding value of Rule #1. I am especially happy to see Rule #4 enforced, as it has been a problem for a long time and I recognize PCGS need to keep themselves from being a party to anything actionable. I do have two minor concerns that I ask you to at least consider:
One of the strengths of this site is that we do feel like we have something of a personal relationship to each other. These relationships can be off-putting to newbies, certainly, but they are also the reason this board has been as active as it has been. While we have threads launched that are very coin-oriented, they have tended to wander off topic because we are a bunch of old fogies sharing a digital cigar and drink.
Speaking for myself, we've gone from a completely unmoderated board to what appears to be a fairly tightly moderated board. Yes, we broke or bent a few rules here or there. But the sudden banning of long-time members for offenses that aren't completely obvious to us does make us reticent to post. I'm willing to trust that what you say is true and that they ignored warnings. But, I'm now afraid to make comments on anything non-numismatic, right down to congratulating someone on their birthday or welcoming a new puppy to the neighborhood. I've thought and re-thought even making this response to your thread.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but I don't think it is in anyone's interest (ours or PCGS's) to decrease interest and activity on this site.
Thank you for the well-thought out and well-worded reply.
Myself, and everyone else here at PCGS values this community, and our community as a whole. You are a relatively new member here, older members can regale you with stories of how the forum used to be managed where it was not uncommon to see 20+ people banned in a week. I would rather not go back to these times.
I think posts congratulating someone or highlighting the great contributions of another are great! They build community and positivity. But if an argument breaks out, I have to shut it down. This will only involve bans if someone's posts were severe. Is calling someone an idiot severe? No. Will you get banned for it? also no. will I warn you? Yes if I see it. Honestly, just don't call people names.
If someone makes a post accusing PCGS of corruption and tightening grades to force people to resubmit, you bet your bottom dollar the ban hammer is coming out.
If really concerns me that people see this as a tightly moderated board, in reality, it isn't. Most boards that are dedicated to a topic are much more strict, as someone shared recently about a VW board they frequent. These concepts we are discussing are not so complicated as people are making them out to be. I am really not sure how to explain it more clearly. I do not WANT to ban people. I do not WANT to over moderate this board. I would like for everyone to treat each other with respect and stay as on-topic as possible.
No one is going to get banned for wishing someone happy birthday.
@Paradisefound is not going to get banned for sharing pictures of the cutest bird in the world (Mango)
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
I appreciate the quick and thoughtful response.
My concern is not so much that the Forum is overly moderated relative to other boards, it is the change from two weeks ago that has been a bit of a culture shock.
Thanks again!
We'll adjust.
What is going on with the different levels of Bamming?
Some are just banned which is the norm as far as I can recall. They cannot post but their past contributions are still available. Example: @Oil2Olay & @Washingtoniana
Then there is the new super bamming. They cannot post and their history of contribution is wiped clean. I can see only what was quoted by a another member but their direct posts are missing. The comments and discussions under their profile show 0. Example: @RogerB & @PerryHall
Seems like we just lost a lot of cool old documents and such.
Holy crap! You banned RogerB?
I'm done here.
Bet you dollars to donuts, no you're not!
I have to wonder if RogerB asked for his history to be removed when he was banned, but we can't expect to be privy to all the personal communications with moderators.
In any case, thanks Heather for discussing the rules.
P.S. - dogs are fine but I love the black cat!
I personally did not, but speaking negatively about PCGS or encouraging others to send in to a different service are easy ways to get a swift bans from the highest power of the forum.
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
RogerB got banned? I hope that's some sort of bad joke. If not, I certainly hope as one of the most educational providers we have here he gets to come back. Talk about a valuable contributor....
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Heather, please clarify the forum position on CAC discussions. Originally they were prohibited, under Mark Stephenson they were acceptable as long as they remained civil. What is the current guidance?
And more Butter picks please.
The Rules may be clear, but I believe enforcing them strictly would eliminate many helpful discussions.
For example, trying to block "negative" posts makes it difficult to debate topics which have both a positive and negative side.
Some topics like fake coins, attempted fraud, etc. are inherently negative, but still can be quite informative.
They are a reality of the hobby.
Ideally, thread locking and bans should be rare events, reserved for times when things get extreme.
My sympathy to the moderators, as there will often be a few users who try to push the limits of the rules and see how much they can get away with.
I enjoy this forum and I hope it can continue to be as useful and entertaining as it has been in the past.
There are ways to have discussions about negative topics that are not negative. In example: How to spot a fake coin. Is this coin fake? I bought a fake coin what should I do?
On the flip side: This explitive sold me a fake coin! Here is his name an address so we can all bash him! -would be an inappropriate post. One of these posts was made just the other day.
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
I think since this is the PCGS forum, it is obvious most here (including me) prefer PCGS to other graders. That said, I think it is perfectly ok to prefer NGC or other companies in some situations (ancients, for example?) and to discuss that. Sometimes it is recommended to send to ANACS or ICG as a quick, cheap alternative for less valuable coins, or for things like Daniel Carr pieces. I do not think those conversations have hurt PCGS in any way, so I hope honest conversations like these are allowed to happen without any banning. If this is not acceptable, please delete this message and let me know. Thank you.
I think there is a fine line between promoting another service, which would violate the rules, and giving an honest suggestion to someone, which could perhaps just be done via a PM. There are some instances in which it is obvious, in example, we do not grade ancients, suggesting to send the coin to NGC is the clear option. But doing so with the pretense that you would receive a better grade on something should you submit to another service would be a violation. I hope that gives some clarity.
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
You may know who I work for now and the other TPGS's I've been with in the past - just about all of them except PCGS. Nevertheless, I can go down the list of each TPGS and list their pluses and minuses. I routinely refer some of our customers to PCGS and NGC when I feel it is in their best interests! Sort of like Miracle on 34th St. An informed and happy customer is in my best interests in the long run and my boss is neither threatened or in competition with any other service. For example, if you want an ancient slabbed...but if you want the most money for your coins, perhaps 94% of the time or more you better use PCGS. I can say that because it is true. I do say that weekly while explaining to prospective customers the ins and out of the four major TPGS. It has not hurt business.
What I'm saying is competition between the major services is best for the collector. IMO, an organization as good
as PCGS should have absolutely NOTHING to fear from any post or recommendations about anything. Heck, the only thing that would drive me nuts if I worked at PCGS would be to see the posts about perceived or actual errors and two-point upgrades!
Nevertheless, I understand that this is a PCGS gift to all of us. I don't use any TPGS yet I'm allowed to post here - for now. While the improvements made last month plus the "hands-on" involvement (with warnings) of you and your boss is great, I confess to feeling severely muzzled and frankly very scared I'll lose posting privileges forever for some unintentional infraction.
I'm not the only one. I received a note from a well-known, long-time, well-regarded member/contributor here. He is going to start a discussion soon and he sent me his contact info because he feared it might be approaching a "line" that may get him banned under the present conditions. IMO, the subject is important and I encouraged him to complete it and post it. Heck, something I've written here in this rant may be offensive as I'm now on a very short leash.
Thanks again for reinstating a group of us that were banned previously. Hopefully, some of the newly banned folks will be let back on soon as my personal pick for the #1 person I should miss is now banned and many of his posts are also missing from the archives. Eventually, we'll all become accustomed to the rules being enforced more strictly making this place more civil (did you read between the lines @BillJones
) and free from trolls.
Thanks for your involvement Ms. Boyd! I've got a bunch of new images to post when I get my new office settled after our move.
Is the issue the expletive? If someone thinks they've been ripped off, are they to be banned for tone, or for content (the name of the offender).
Are we allowed to share the ID's of bad experiences on both ebay and the BST? It's nice to be able to get a heads up on a bad seller or bad buyer.
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.
It is my understanding that once a member has been banned, all trace of them is removed from the server thus all previous posts and PMs are deleted forever as in non-recoverable. There are a couple of 'MIAs' who are well known numismatists and whose posts often contained valuable information that would often benefit the numismatic community as a reference tool and continue to do so through the search feature. I state this humbly with trepidation and meaning no disrespect to the hosts in fear of being cast into the wastelands of cyberspace.
I would hope both. This is not a private communication channel. Making public allegations against someone is potentially actionable and should not be allowed. Sometimes, mistakes happen. There is a big difference between a proven illicit activity and a simple mistake. There is also always two sides to the story.
If you want examples. Just last week a customer contacted me SIX weeks after I shipped their purchase claiming non-receipt. I had contacted her at the time of shipping but the package got caught up. I file a Locate Mail and 2 days later the package was delivered. They had been very patient and very understanding, but they could just as easily have been on this board calling me a thief, especially if I were out of town and took more time to answer their email.
A couple of years ago, I had a customer contact me about a package that was never received. Tracking showed it delivered. He insisted the tracking was a mistake. After a few email exchanges over several days and an eBay claim filed by BOTH of us, it turns out his wife had taken in the package a few days before Christmas and put it on a shelf behind the Christmas Tree. Again, either one of us could have been on this board calling the other person a thief.
Public disclosure of bad transactions really should not be made. I know people "want to know", but there is no due process prior to posting and this is NOT OUR board. If I were PCGS, I would sooner shut the forum down than allow myself to be sued when some board member posts a libelous claim about a major entity who actually has the resources and interest in pursuing the case. There is no upside from the PCGS side of things.
Frankly, I'm surprised PCGS even allows the BST to exist. I'm sure the terms and conditions have language absolving them of responsibility. But, you can sue anyone. Since there is no material benefit to PCGS in allowing free transactions through their site, they are opening themselves up to being involved in legal action with no real upside. [IMHO]
hi Heather,I like your style(so far),my house is also not a democracy but rather a benevolent dictatorship and the degree of benevelence is dependent upon the guests behavior
I just checked. Wow, how sad is that.
Thankfully, we are not burning books in this country yet!
Nevertheless, the rules are rules. Several of us learned that the hard way. When you own the Baseball Stadium and the playing equipment, you determine the prices for admission and food plus how many balls and bats are on the field. It's that simple.
let's hope people here can keep focused on coins and such and not why this person got banned and such
no need for such threads just wastes data space and isn't going to do much good
Coin sale at link below
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wS6r94r66BAJV3zC6
What do the dates mean in your post? 8/11/97, etc.
i made it simple and to the point now
and yes my sig is coin related as you can find coins minted from those years listed
Coin sale at link below
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wS6r94r66BAJV3zC6
Hello Heather,
thank you for making the rules clear, and at the same time indicating your willingness to be lenient when it is needed. I totally agree that an iron hand is sometimes very much in order.
However, there is one aspect / Rule, I do not understand. That is the rule about this forum being for US coins (only?).
You made that very clear and emphasized it very strongly.
Did you forget that our host also grades Canadian and other World coins? Perhaps I did read your post to hasty and did not understand completely the way it was meant?
You made very clear: "US coins". , as Jack Nicholson said: "crystal clear".( in the movie a few good men)
So where does that leave us? Us being the collectors of mainly Canadian and perhaps World coins?
would you please clarify?
thank you
Spot on! Thank you for saving me from having to type this out.
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
The deletion of their content was an unfortunate misstep. Content is not usually deleted during a ban and remains when an account is unbanned. Moving forward, account content will not be deleted upon a ban.
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
Can this possibly be restored? There was a tremendous amount of very useful historical content in his writings.
Spot on. What was lost could loosely be considered a "library" of valuable historical information that we otherwise would never have seen, and only here on this forum.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
There is also a World and Ancients forum here.
I did not forget.
There is a separate forum for world and ancient coins as @david3142 said. The category you are currently under is U.S. coins. To be blunt, I don’t have the time nor interest in closing posts that are related to non-us coins, so long as they are about coins, but it would be preferable for you to post under the World and Ancient forum.
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
Heather:
Bravo for stricter enforcement of longtime rules!
Still now clear on how one politely warns all members of a bad seller or buyer. This has been one of the many benefits of this forum, the sharing of good and bad experiences with specific individuals. Too many members to be sending individual private warnings.
Specifically, what is the acceptable form to provide the user ID of a bad apple. Is this acceptable:
Topic: Bad buying (selling) experience
Post: Recently had a bad buying (selling) experience with member ID XXXXXX. Details will be discussed in private messages only.
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.
@jmlanzaf explained the issue with this most eloquently. Please read through his response about why posts like this are problematic. It is one thing to post a buyer beware about a fake coin for sale, it is another to post accusations about a person or entity. We just cannot allow libel and slander on our forum. If you find the need to make a post such as this and would like to do so in compliance with the rules, contact me and we can work on it.
I understand why posts like this are valuable, but it must also be clear that they can go very, very wrong
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
You could always lock any "bad experience" post to prevent further public discussion.
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.
Not necessarily true. It can be done either way. A user can be banned (locked out) or deleted (purged from history).
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Can this material be un-deleted? If so please do so. It is very important material.
I agree with @CaptHenway hoping that the very important material can be restored. I also wish/hope that @rogerb is reistated soon.
If it can't be restored, then in essence, a book or books were burned. Sometimes it is better to ask whether the contents are harmful or not before destroying everything associated with an individual.
The person who deleting the content did so without knowing the action would delete more than the content they intended. As stated, it won’t be happening again. There’s nothing more that can be said on the matter.
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
Ban hammer ? Do they have them on Amazon ?
Fortunately not. It would be terrifying if someone were to harness the power of THE BAN in real life.
Heather Boyd
PCGS Senior Director of Marketing
This is real life, the outside world is an illusion
@HeatherBoyd said: "The deletion of their content was an unfortunate misstep. Content is not usually deleted during a ban and remains when an account is unbanned. Moving forward, account content will not be deleted upon a ban.
What's the chance of hiring a computer expert to find Rogers posts in the cloud or wherever. It may be viable and I will personally donate $50 to a PCGS fund to pay for it. Just say the word and post the mailing address. Perryhall is important also but MY first choice is Roger's content.