1909-S VDB Authentic or not?

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hiijacker
hiijacker Posts: 1,173 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I know the color around the S is circular and suspicious but do these match any known legitimate diagnostics?
Is it worth sending in for grading?




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Comments

  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks altered to me. Added Mintmark. The S is the wrong style. No diagnostics can be done on the V.D.B. because the dots are missing.

    Here are the 4 mintmark positions:

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • dirtygold
    dirtygold Posts: 31 ✭✭
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    Agree that it's fake. Is it a struck counterfeit or is it an added mintmark?

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2018 3:13PM
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    @Batman23 said:
    Mintmark is not correct. Looks like an added mintmark to me.

    The mint mark should have skinnier lines in back the serifs and a fatter middle. Look at @buffaloirontails’ pictures. The shiny spot around the mint mark is the cincher. It has an added mint mark.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • coinbuf
    coinbuf Posts: 12,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I very much doubt that it would receive a grade.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • Namvet69
    Namvet69 Posts: 9,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    They didn't use gorilla glue but that mmm is definitely added. Looks like it was attached with a brazed solder technique. Maybe it didn't discolor until it cooled but it sure is fugly. Glad I saw it. Peace Roy

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  • BlindedByEgo
    BlindedByEgo Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I believe the light area around the S is where the flux was applied to let the solder flow when the mint mark was added.

    Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1

  • lkenefic
    lkenefic Posts: 9,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Agreed... added MM... I hope you're not too deep into this.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @dirtygold said:
    Agree that it's fake. Is it a struck counterfeit or is it an added mintmark?

    Added mintmark

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Whoever did that gave no thought to covering their tracks. :/

  • dirtygold
    dirtygold Posts: 31 ✭✭
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    Crazt glue is also used to attach a mintmark but a drop of acetone will quickly cause the mintmark to fall off.

  • sellitstore
    sellitstore Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Altered coins always have added "s", not added VDB.

    It's the "S" that makes these valuable, not the VDB. Philadelphia VDBs can be had for a couple of bucks while San Francisco examples will cost $100 to start.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • IrishMikey
    IrishMikey Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭
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    Definitely an added S. Pete, that is a GREAT mini-seminar on the 1909-S VDB. Great images.

    Just to add a bit more -- there is a small die chip in the right obverse field on Die 1, a tiny diagonal die line above the U in TRUST on Die 2, and on later die states, a tiny die chip inside the B in LIBERTY on Die 4. These typically remain visible until they wear down to Fine or thereabouts, although environmental damage or other problems may disguise them.

  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2018 5:30PM
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    @IrishMikey said:
    Definitely an added S. Pete, that is a GREAT mini-seminar on the 1909-S VDB. Great images.

    Just to add a bit more -- there is a small die chip in the right obverse field on Die 1, a tiny diagonal die line above the U in TRUST on Die 2, and on later die states, a tiny die chip inside the B in LIBERTY on Die 4. These typically remain visible until they wear down to Fine or thereabouts, although environmental damage or other problems may disguise them.

    Thanks, Mikey. Nice addition to the diagnostics.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That is an added mint mark... not sure of the method... acetone will remove glue, but if brazed, it will remain... and that is what the bright area around the S looks like... Cheers, RickO

  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,049 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    that looks bogus to me. jmo

  • hiijacker
    hiijacker Posts: 1,173 ✭✭✭
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    I have one more coin which i as told was genuine (as opposed to the other which was flagged as doubtful)

    What are your thoughts on this one?




    Buyer of all vintage Silver Bars. PM me
    Cashback from Mr. Rebates
  • BlindedByEgo
    BlindedByEgo Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @hiijacker said:
    I have one more coin which i as told was genuine (as opposed to the other which was flagged as doubtful)

    What are your thoughts on this one?

    Please post photos of the entire coin.

    Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1

  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like a genuine Die #4 to me.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • lkenefic
    lkenefic Posts: 9,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'd need to see the entire coin, but I agree with Buffalo. .. looks like a die 4 to me too...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.

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