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Which of these two specimens of the 1921 Peace Dollar MS66 is best specimen of the two?
rickmn
Posts: 4 ✭
I'm trying to learn just how the graders came to their conclusions.
Which of these two coins is the best example of a 1921 Peace Dollar MS66? First is a NGC, second is PCGS.
Thanks for the opinions and help in understanding how grading is accomplished!
2
Best Answer
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Weiss
Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
Best, baring uneven grades, is close to 100% subjective.
Both are nice for very different reasons. Gun to my head, I'd take #2.
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Answers
I prefer the PCGS one, better eye appeal.
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IMO I'd say the top one. The color on the second one isn't what I would consider attractive and it looks like the strike is a little better on the top one as well.
Interesting die polish lines on the top one to boot.
Collector, occasional seller
First has a better strike, second has better eye appeal. Both are nice.
Neither are worthy of 66s IMO. The NGC coin has better eye appeal but it falls well short of a 66.
Hard to believe either coin got a 66.
I liked the top one at first glance but upon closer inspection there are a few too many hidden marks on the obverse for my liking. I don’t like the strike on the second one at all.
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MUCH better strike on the NGC one. Both are quite clear of nicks and dings for the grade IMO, although the rim roll on the back of the eagle's head in the second coin is in more of a prime focal area (and therefore worse).
The first one's luster is muted, which makes me think it might have been over dipped (maybe over time, maybe all at once). Given the imagery, it is hard to tell about the luster on the second one, but I suspect that it is better than on the first one.
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The absence of marks is behind the grades, but neither piece is a superior strike, which in my mind, makes up part of the MS-66 grade for this issue. The NGC piece has a better strike, but the eye appeal is so-so. The PCGS coin has a better overall look, but a typical weak strike.
I would want to pay a discounted price for both of these pieces relative to the MS-66 assigned grade.
Yes sir, in my mind a 66 1921 Peace Dollar should have a superior strike but I guess that's not always the case.
I'm not crazy about either. The photos aren't equivalent as far as showing luster, surfaces, or even strike, although I think I like coin #1 better. Either would be a compromise for what I think a 66 should look like for that issue.
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2 is better. Never mind the color difference, I think lighting has a key role in that difference, but look at the field of coin #1, it has nasty scratches in front of her face and behind her head as well....looks like it was cleaned with some kind of tiny scrub brush. #2 is not without problems too, there is a big mark on her cheek and the rim looks like it got whacked under the 9.
I don't like either for the grade.
But I would keep 'em both!!!!!!
I found out you hit# at the start of your post.
I would keep looking.
Coin #2 looks better but has a weak strike, I would try to find one with both good eye appeal and a decent strike.
The scratches you refer to are die polish lines.
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com/wiki/1921-P_Peace_VNA
Scroll down this page and you will find it referenced under "NOT VAM-1Z - not 1P obverse. - the obverse is strike doubled= EDS of 1Y"
Collector, occasional seller
I'd take the NGC one!!
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Thanks@@ I finally figured that out too. If you start your reply with # , YOU ARE SUDDENLY YELLING!!!!!!!! I kept editing until it was normal again.
See? His reply was simply #2 but it came out as a HUGE 2 !!!!!!!!!!
The photo technique is a bit different, so it's a little hard to say, but the second one has far better eye appeal in my book. Regarding the second, the strike is pretty weak but the cheek is clean (SO IMPORTANT). The obverse fields are very nice. There's a "something" on the neck trunctation and a few little hits and reed marks - by themselves not disqualifying. The rim around the date deserves a close look.
The first coin has heavy die polish lines which in my book are a bit of a distraction. There are areas that seem a little discolored on the cheek, jaw, and neck that could be frost breaks or light hits/scrapes. The rims have some issues. The color in front of the portrait and around the free hair strands is a little odd. Strike is about as good as you commonly find. This coin appears dead and lusterless, which again might just be the photo. It seems to have OK frost between the feathers and a little in the hair. I really don't like the abrasions to the neck truncation.
In all, I think they're both pretty weak 66 coins. I would be surprised if either got a CAC sticker. I like the first as a nice 65. The second coin is a "but if". With a good strike it would be a decent 66. How it is, I see it as a 65+.
A 1921 in MS66 is a very expensive coin. They're not exactly in every auction but in a year or two of looking you should be able to find a handful that are nicer. I'd rather pay 1.5X book for a nice one than 0.8X for one that is just OK. YMMV.
Everyone here is tired of seeing this one, but I offer it up for comparison. It lives in a PCGS MS66 CAC holder:
Thanks @ChrisH821 This is why I like this forum, always learning something new, I never knew what a "die polish" was. I thought those were cleaning lines. Now I know die polish leaves raised lines while cleaning leaves scratches that are incuse.
Strike is better on the first one; eye appeal is better on the second one. A tossup IMO.
Yes exactly! Another indicator is that die polish lines will go right up to and out the other side of a device on a coin, but not over the top. A scratch from cleaning will typically fade out near a device, go over top of it, and fade back in. Not sure if that's the best way to describe it but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say.
Collector, occasional seller
I will take door #2.
The top one.
Pete
I’d wait for another to appear.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
I'd take BryceM's piece... nice strike and better eye appeal... ;-)
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That would depend....do you feel like losing 50% of your purchase price or only 30%?
I have a 65 CAC that has a better strike and less marks. Of the two, the second is nicest, but I wouldn't pay more than $1500 for it.
No, I'm not tired of seeing that gorgeous example.
How much do you want again?
Lance.
Even though the PCGS example has a poorer strike; I think I would choose it because it has better color and eye appeal. The NGC example has a dipped look that I find very unattractive and the strike isn't that much better. I also like the surfaces of the PCGS coin better, whereas the NGC coin has die lines and appears spotty or hazy in some areas.
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Keep looking as many have advised. With some patience you’ll find a much nicer 66 with both better Strike and color
Number one is my preference... however, I do not see either as a 66....Cheers, RickO
I wouldn't even consider either one at a grade of MS66. The first one has a so-so strike and a very bland appearance. The second one is even more weakly struck. Pass!
1 = over-dipped
2 = under-conserved
both sup-par
First has a stronger strike but second is cleaner.
i would pass on both for my collection as they can be found nicer with a little patience
I would not purchase either coin. The chatter on the neck, the reeding mark in the rays and the polished dies on #1 turns me off. On #2, the weak strike is a deterrent for me. I would hold out for a more eye appealing, superbly struck 1921.