Rant! This is the internet folks you can be positive or negative, don’t kill the hobby
Aspie_Rocco
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Just a quick note, in favor of numismatics, on social behaviors I have observed while frequenting these forums.
I’ll start with an apology for the negative tone I use at times trying to express this message.
I see the irony in it.
I occasionally see people discuss the coin hobby as dying off, going the way of stamps, with less interest among younger generations in collecting.
I see people posting positive and encouraging comments, and also people writing negative, disparaging, belittling and “holier than thou” comments. At least some sure come across that way.
You positive members are an asset and behave like ambassadors to this hobby.
You people in the negative camp should take a close look at yourselves and be certain you do not lament the decreased interest. You contribute to the problem.
Negativity drives people away. New hobbyists should be fostered and encouraged, and guided.
Many positive members do exactly this, while others occasionally mock the latest “doubled die?” threads and new members for their enthusiasm with roll searching for varieties or for asking the same questions we see here constantly. The long time members and notable-known-hobby or celebrities should, in my opinion, should be especially careful of their online image.
If a new member here sees a huge post count, Star count, likes or whatever on a person writing negatively or as though they are better than everyone else... looks kind of ugly
Not everyone is an expert or well read in numismatic areas. Yes google works fantastic but sometimes human interaction online can circumvent hours of reading.
Maybe there could be threads stuck at the top that cover the frequently asked questions. The Q&A areas is not as active as coin forum.
The millennials and younger generations are mostly growing up with out coins or cash. Debit and credit cards rule most transactions and I haven’t written more than 4 checks in the last 10 or more years. Online shopping also contributes to making cash less necessary. The younger folks not handling money as much may generally lack the nostalgia we feel for our coins. We should be encouraging newly interested individuals no matter of they start with modern coins from the bank or slabbed 18th century specimens.
Perhaps we should all do what we can to be less negative and snarky with new collectors and members here, after all they might be the buyer of Your Coins one day. Or maybe they will driven off just buying vintage cell phones, computers, and “cause” bracelets.
I have to read books and articles to completely comprehend some social rules and intricacies of human interaction, because I have high functioning autism. Because I do not want to embarrass myself I make an effort to be more tactful, understanding and less judgmental.
To the sometimes negative members...what is your excuse for having poor social etiquette???
Comments
Well written and I totally agree with your philosophie .
Great job
At the risk of being in both camps, I am one who has compared coins to stamps. And one of the things I point to is the arrogance of the old- timers. They helped kill stamps by driving away newbies.
It is easy to just ignore posts you don't like. I don't know why people don't just keep going.
@ricko has the right approach. He's always positive and welcoming.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I have found this to be a welcoming environment. I have gained knowledge here and pass on what knowledge I can.
I understand your points and can appreciate your ideas. I have noticed a proactive welcoming being undertaken towards new members.
Edited to add:I belong to another coin forum where this same type of conversation has been had. And I am sure it happens elsewhere too. I think that these boards, the CU forums, are great for inexperienced collectors because there is so much specific information, plus all of the knowledge on the periphery that you can acquire here.
great post! something that does need to be said!
Well said!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Some of the posters here seems to have the mind set of one who would likely come out of his or her front door spitting fire and yelling as some kids retrieving a ball that got away from them.......... "GET OFF MY LAWN".
Warranted at times,.......................yes,............................. however it does seems to be Cranky and Crotchety
In the words of Rodney King (may he RIP),.............................. "Can't we all get along?"
No wonder many welcomed you back with open arms ....... you are wise and to the point
I read somewhere ..."Be the person your dog thinks you are"
WOOF WOOF
This is a good point. If anyone is ever feeling patient and charitable, pop overt to the Q&A forum. There are frequently newbies with lots of questions in need of guidance.
Kudos to you for your comment. I'll say that I should probably stop the Bowtie Fantastic stuff, but it is in humor and in no way is meant to disparage anyone.
No one should be afraid to comment here. Listen to what we advise you about your problem (or question). Etiquette by all. Some of us that have been here for awhile (no one in particular) get flamed and dissed for trying to help if they don't say what a new person wants to hear.
Respect is earned. Sensitivity is the key. Don't throw away the chance to become part of a place where you can really learn from some of the top people in Numismatics.
Pete
Great job and well said !!!
True, everyone needs time to learn and learning is the reason for this forum. Discouraging new collectors hurts the hobby, but new collectors need to be willing to listen and show appreciation for any help they get. Works both ways.
First, I am completely with you on your post.
Second, at the risk of some Trumpian hyperbole, nobody is more enthusiastic than I am about numismatics.
That said, I'll answer your question. I know that the truth can hurt sometimes, but silence and lies hurt more. I'd rather tell the truth. Always forcefully, and preferably with some humor. And I don't care about etiquette. Maybe I should care, but I don't.
And in that spirit, I'll say that there are incredible opportunities and incredible traps in the hobby and in the market. And I'm not especially talking about grading and pricing. I'm talking about lasting value and historical value. And I'm talking about fads, fetishes and frauds. I'm talking about collecting the way the last generation did things vs. the way the next generation will do things. And honestly, I don't know how to talk about the good without talking about the bad. Everything is relative.
Hope that helps!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Well said @MrEureka
Also, I am not saying we cannot give bad news, or that we have to be nice all the time. Patience has its limits of course.
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
sometimes the truth is the best answer to questions, don't sugar coat the truth, tell it how and why
anyways how are people going to learn?
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This site historically has been snobbish. I have never felt "part" of this forum even though I may be considered an "old timer". I find much more acceptance and interest at the LCR forum. With that said, I try to visit here but hold back commenting far more than I would like because of the nature and number collectors here who ridicule, and post negative comments. It is honestly amazing the BS that is posted here and the treatment of new collectors/posters is often an embarrassment as there is very low tolerance for someone who roll searches verses spending $50,000 daily. I know of a few collectors who have very decent registry sets who simply no longer post because of the holyier than thou mentality. I doubt these comments will affect those I am thinking about. It has not stopped them yet despite the fact - we are ALL collectors.
WS
Truth is a powerful thing. Reality is often ugly. Honesty sometimes hurts.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
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I can't say I read every post or anything close to that, but my impression is that most of the posts on this forum are well-intentioned. Speaking for myself, I frequently disagree with things I see on this forum. Not to give anyone (except maybe @specialist) a hard time, but because I want to be helpful. I can see how doing so might seem offensive to some people in some way, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. My advice is to grow a thicker skin and visit more often. There's lots to be learned, and some fun to be had.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Groovy!
@Aspie_Rocco That was a nicely written post, and I couldn't agree more with you. Just to make a comment of my own on new collectors coming here though. I think it is a good thing that new folks join the forum to learn, but what I have a hard time with is when the newbie asks a question about a coin. They are told by many here that the coin is not what they think it is, but the newbie keeps insisting that it is, like there is no way they could be wrong. I think that is where some of the negativity comes from. As far as my own remarks go I always try to keep them positive.
A wise person knows that there is something to be learned from everyone. Try to be tolerant, open-minded and thick-skinned, as well. Some of the great minds here may seem a little abrasive but I think that they mean well. Just try to learn and not take things, too personally, as this is a great place to socialize and gain knowledge. Share your knowledge but NEVER think that you know everything, regardless of your stars, points, registry sets, etc, etc. Be humble. I learn something new here everyday.
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@Aspie_Rocco hit the nail on the head and drove it home. Well written.
I suspect Pollyanna lost a lot of money on her coin collection.
Alice Roosevelt Longworth probably didn't.
Sorry you feel that way. I really enjoy seeing your Lincoln varieties.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Sorry to hear that. I think you have an awesome collection and hope you continue to participate here.
Can you provide some examples of of low tolerance for searching rolls vs. spending a lot of money? I've seen people post bank finds, roll finds, etc. and get good, encouraging responses, but perhaps not as many responses?
Here's a thread I posted on inexpensive items:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/978805/post-your-inexpensive-but-interesting-items
Very well written A-R. I completely agree. This really hit home to me because is years past I was guilty of bashing moderns. I don't do this anymore because I feel everyone should collect what they like and be proud of it. As I said (in years past) and I don't do this anymore and I apologize to anyone's feelings I may have hurt.
If everyone collected the same thing it would be boring and those coins would be VERY expensive!
Well written OP.
The beauty of numismatics is that the coins are inert and rather indifferent. Dip them and resubmit...they don't care. Stamp 1964 over the 1921 and they will hardly furrow a brow.
Reality though is many if not most of us on the forum collect and/or deal in coins of meaningful to significant value. Things like grade inflation, cute stickers and tax policy are issues of weighty concern. When across the board hikes in auction fees drain liquidity from the market, any of us that have a substantial investment in coins, take a hit.
With that...The hundred degree days have ended here, so everyone have a great weekend!
Positively tends to bring positivity.
Well written post by @Aspie_Rocco .
Is this because of all of the market condition, CAC, grade inflation, and third party grading threads? If so, sorry, but the truth hurts.
Overall, I like the OP post and understand the premise. However in my opinion, if someone allows some internet posts to dissuade them from interest in the hobby, then they really weren't all that interested to begin with.
Well said OP. I don't find this site snobbish or cliquey, however I think the respect has to run both ways. New collectors should believe the experts here when they keep insisting their (penny) is that one in a billion that they have seen on Youtube.
Let’s look at the shear fact that there are over 93,000 registered PCGS sets. Of course, many sets are owned by the same folks. But what are the numbers of set owners who participate here?? In my series of Lincoln cents, the actual number who “communicate” on this board is not very many. As an example, the highest number of sets register in one category is 297 under the 1909-1958 basic Lincoln set. (for some reason it claims to have 366 – but only 297 appear so it may have to do with retired sets ??) I bet less than 15 of those people – out of 297 - use this forum. Now a handful I “know” through this forum and they refuse to use the forum because of a slew of reasons that all end with” I don’t bother there anymore” So we PM, email, or chat on “other” forums. Which says to me they are not comfortable here, as they seem to have no problem communicating elsewhere.
It wasn’t but a couple years ago, the lack of users here was so low that the topic often was about the loss of participants. Now I get it, these things run in cycles -collections are sold, collectors pass, other life emergencies come along, etc. You would come here and a post would not move for days. But now we are talking about 93,000 sets!! And PCGS must have the number of how many individuals that own those sets which I would think would be a substantial number of folks who do NOT participate here. You would think they would look into that.
Another interesting thing I will point out is that every forum has a statement you usually agree to before you can register that lays out the ground rules in order to be a participant. They are often on a separate page. But not here on this Coin forum – nope, 4th thing down on the forum page permanently in your face. You want to know why – back in 2010 this place was a freaking mad house. Willis must have banned a dozen folks and those rules then got posted where they have remained to this day as a reminder. I know I saw the mess happen. I have also seen some tremendous individuals throw in the towel and just quit because of the issues they had with members here.
So, it’s not about thick skin, it’s about the culture, and that culture has not improved or help this site grow very much over the 14 years I have been a member. Maybe I am to blame for part of it for not chiming in more often, but on the other hand, I am still here.
WS
The one thing that has not changed over the years is that "Coins" is still an '80/20' or '85/15' culture. The small number represents the percentage of folks who actually collect coins as historical artifacts, and the big number is the percentage of folks who see the coins simply as a means for making a financial profit.
Realism is the very best place to be, positivism for the sake of positivism is a sheer crock.
Yes!! This exactly. Well said sir!
I would also like to say that NEW MEMBERS SHOULD listen to the well informed or expert Opinions of those answering questions around here. If an actual numismatic author gives you their expert opinion or analysis, for FREE, accept it and DO NOT ARGUE.
I never said be positive all the time. I am just attempting to encourage members to stop being facetious, mocking, or rude.
No it’s not about ANY of that. No where in first post did I mention ANY of those key words.
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
No, cameonut2011 is totally correct. If the coin and bullion markets were sparkling, there would be a lot less bitchin'. A whole lot less. We've had five to seven bad years now.
Threads don't have to stick to the subject matter defined by the OP. Nope nope nope.
To put this into perspective, however, there have been some new members who have taken the, “Is these (damaged) coins (many, many photos) rare mint errors?” to the point where these people became trolls. I answered their questions for a while, but they never listened. After a while they become the abusers.
I wholeheartedly agree, regarding new folks not listening to local experts. No one likes their bubble being popped, but members should have the maturity to accept the answers, and not be in denial.
I still feel like a group of threads should be permanently fixed at the top of the forum, to address the frequent questions like those you mention. The argumentative disbelievers also are at fault for the small culture of impropriety happening here, but I figure most wash out and do not stay long term, so addressing their wrongs in hope of change would be mostly futile
@BillDugan1959 I am unsure if I understand the point you are making... five to seven years of a bad market justifies the mistreatment, mockery, or abuse of members here?
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
There are other reasons to collect coins. Even if this weren't true we still all define "historical artefact" differently.
I have little sympathy for the fate of "investors" if they have not been lied to, but most of them are acquiring what most of us consider "historical artefacts".
This thread is making me feel so warm and fuzzy. I think I'll have another cup of hot cocoa and just sit back and bask in the tender glow of it all. We've all been tamed. Admitted to to our past transgressions and now we see the light. Bliss...pure bliss. Bunnies, puppy - dogs, cotton candy dreams. Parking lot finds of 1997 Double Die pennies stretching out to the horizon and beyond. And we love it............ it's like a beautiful dream. Wake me up when things get back to normal around here.
Yea.............until the next Bowtie comes along and someone swears it's worth something, against all of our "nice guy" advice.
Pete
Not everyone who collects coins is sociable.
I'm quite used to that.
No problemo.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Well said and as the old saying goes, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all".
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No. Your original post speaks to negativity about the hobby in general, and it does not limit the scope of discussion to abuse towards other members. There is a big difference between abusive posts and negative posts. While all of the former are necessarily part of the latter, not all of the latter are part of the former.
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A very noble, and yes, true, thoughtful effort @Aspie_Rocco!
I personally view these forums as a very small, almost non-existent sliver that affects the hobby; along with the positive/negative feedback. Most collectors here tend to be advanced, and you have many present who have written books, provided invaluable research, shared through articles, have B&M's, websites, and are engaged in various facets that go beyond just collecting. Yes, some collectors have an edge, yet, so do many in the professional fields, and also scholarly. We learn to adapt, and take what they can provide you/I. Such is life. There were professors I didn't like, scholars I didn't care for, and others who knew more than I that I thought were complete a** holes. I took from them what I deemed was the best of what they could give, and it is now mine to add along.
I approach these forums as such. We must adapt to the realities, and if there are any changes that we see necessary- we forge that path to open eyes, educate, and provide that venue of discovery for others. It is the way of things, always.
That is it my friend. We are at mercy to the currents of the ocean- build a better ship, crew, and navigation system.
Life is always in the balance of perilous waters, along with our thoughts, and aspirations.
Good thread.
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