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Wait until you see this amazing SS Central America coin!
Halfsense
Posts: 600 ✭✭✭
After 157 years on the Atlantic Ocean seabed, this 1857-S Double Eagle from the SS Central America is the probably the most beautifully toned gold coin you'll ever see.
"If it happens in numismatics, it's news to me....
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Hasn't that one been on here before? Most did not like it.
Yes, that coin has been shown here before. Who owns it now? What did it sell for? Personally, I happen to like it.
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I was hoping to see that coin at the February Long Beach show. I think it needs to be seen in person to see if you like it or not. The photo shows the interesting colors, but I'm wondering how the luster is.
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I would love to own it, but that will never happen, lol
AT........Atlantic Toning.
Looks burned
I don’t care for that coin at all. For me it would be the nightmare after curation went bad.
I think it's hideous.
is that a scrubbed spot above here eye in front of the L in Lib?
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I'm not a fan, but for the people that like toning I'm sure to some it looks amazing. I don't like the scratches on it on the field above the eye and some of the darker areas.
Donato
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Donato, I don't think those are "scratches." The coin is MS67.
Would be a nice look on silver. On gold, it doesn’t look “right” to me.
The point brought up before still intrigues me. It was suggested that the color was not toning of the coin itself, but rather toning of the added rust that became attached to the coin while on the sea floor. Would be interesting to learn more about what was done to the coin in the conservation process to remove surface deposits, if anything at all.
I think that's the only reason I do like it. It's unique and wasn't man made which I think everyone would assume it was if not for knowing the source. I'm curious what caused this and why only this one and not any of the other ones that sat down there with it. Such a strange and interesting coin.
The most beautifully toned gold coins I have ever seen are the gold coins discovered in the cellar of the Villa Pisarella after they had lain buried under the ash of the 79 A.D. eruption of Mt. Vesuvius for almost two thousand years.
They belong to forum member @SmEagle1795
Here is his aureus of Roman Emperor Vespasian who, as the last man standing, succeeded Nero in the 'year of the four emperors'.
....and that's not the only coin toned in the ashes of Vesuvius in @SmEagle1795's collection.
For the curious.....
http://www.colosseocollection.com/p443726947/hcd9ad7c#hcd9ad7c
In 67, the luster must be simply amazing!
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its nice but its not for me, thanks though
Ugly!
A touting we shall go, a touting we shall go.....
I am a gold lover... even crusty gold... However, that one is U G L Y!!!!!
Cheers, RickO
That's what makes this hobby so much fun! People have different tastes so they collect differently. Thanks for posting this. I will look forward to seeing the coin in person at the ANA.
carolinacollectorcoins.com
Just don't bring along oxalic acid !
Looks rusty. Pass.
Dave
From the fist time I saw that coin, until now, I thought it was ugly. It might qualify as natural toning, but there is nothing natural looking about it, at all!
I saw, now how do I unsee.
Original crust-acean
Moneymonkey1:
"AT........Atlantic Toning.
"
On a roll ... don't stop now!
Yes. I posted on this and the 67+ earlier last week.
I think she's the cover girl of the SS Central - like it or not
I respectfully disagree with you. I love toning.
We discussed it back in January/February:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/993966/toned-ss-central-america-20
Another market grade for some to ponder but a no grade for me. How about 'sunken details'
Question: If that came to PCGS in the mail, and wasn't a known deep sea find....what would they have done with it? Questionable color? Environmental Damage?
Not a real fan myself....but you have to admit, it's "different".
Whoever buys this coin may find himself under water in a few years.......
I see what you did there.....
how is that coin attractive, eye appealing and in a straight grade holder??
I don't believe this discussion should have anything to do with tone and whether this coin or others from the hoard should be viewed as toned, AT, NT or any other way too discuss them.
shouldn't we just acknowledge that they have been environmentally damaged??
I think people are just pretending to like the coin.
I agree with @keets ....All tarnish is environmental damage, however, this one is extreme...Enameled coins are more attractive - and I do not care for them either. Cheers, RickO
I wonder if this coin would have gotten a grade if it had not been recovered from the SS Central America? I think the usual grade might have been “environmental damage.”
It's fugly. Simple as that. No amount of hyperbole will help convince otherwise.
If any of us ever submitted a gold coin with toning like this to PCGS, it would come back "CODE 91 - Questionable Color" or "CODE 97 - Environmental Damage".
Yes, I agree with many other users that this coin is hideous.
The history of the coin helps with the determination, as it should.
The history of the coin helps with the determination, as it should
really??
It should NOT. It is fine to put its provenance on their holder, but if PCGS considers that to NOT be environmental damage or artificial toning then they must NEVER consider it to be. PCGS has standards it could apply to these coins. The market could choose, as it often has, to ignore the damage on sea salvage coins. But pretending that these coins are not either damaged or cleaned or both undermines their very standards.
You are assuming the same standards apply to these coins as other submissions.
Identical grading standards must apply regardless of provenance, emotional connection, or assumed "value." Otherwise, coin grading, and all of its implications, are false and an outright fraud.
Agree. And it feeds into the (possibly true) sense that some pigs are more equal than others.
And there IS a precedent. Spanish coins from shipwrecks are noted either as "shipwreck coins" or even "environmental damage"
https://ebay.com/itm/PCGS-Rare-Shipwreck-Effect-Spain-8-Reale-Cob-Philip-III-1599-62-Pillar-Coin/173423494619?hash=item2860d885db%3Ag%3AfB4AAOSwHxFbUpiZ%3Asc%3AUSPSFirstClass%2114623%21US%21-1&_sop=10&_sacat=0&_nkw=shipwreck+pcgs&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0%7C0
https://ebay.com/itm/1854-So-Chile-1-Peso-SS-Central-America-Gold-Label-PCGS-Certified-Shipwreck/192524071299?hash=item2cd3543183%3Ag%3A~sUAAOSwcuRa53hF&_sop=10&_sacat=0&_nkw=shipwreck+pcgs&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0%7C0
Grading MUST be as objective, impartial and consistent as humanly (or mechanically) possible. Failure in one circumstance destroys ALL TRUST and credibility in any 'grading' decision.
A lie is a lie. More lies will not make it truth.
Environmentally damaged. Coin shop owner might offer melt if a private metal detectorist brought this in.