Wait until you see this amazing SS Central America coin!

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Halfsense
Halfsense Posts: 600 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

After 157 years on the Atlantic Ocean seabed, this 1857-S Double Eagle from the SS Central America is the probably the most beautifully toned gold coin you'll ever see.

https://coinweek.com/us-coins/us-gold-coins/amazingly-toned-gold-coin-recovered-with-ss-central-america-treasure/

"If it happens in numismatics, it's news to me....
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Comments

  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hasn't that one been on here before? Most did not like it.

  • Walkerfan
    Walkerfan Posts: 10,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yes, that coin has been shown here before. Who owns it now? What did it sell for? Personally, I happen to like it.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • ElmerFusterpuck
    ElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I was hoping to see that coin at the February Long Beach show. I think it needs to be seen in person to see if you like it or not. The photo shows the interesting colors, but I'm wondering how the luster is.

    10-4,
    Erik
    My registry sets

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  • jwitten
    jwitten Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I would love to own it, but that will never happen, lol

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks burned

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,937 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I don’t care for that coin at all. For me it would be the nightmare after curation went bad.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Crypto
    Crypto Posts: 4,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    is that a scrubbed spot above here eye in front of the L in Lib?

    11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set

  • divecchia
    divecchia Posts: 6,715 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'm not a fan, but for the people that like toning I'm sure to some it looks amazing. I don't like the scratches on it on the field above the eye and some of the darker areas.

    Donato


    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
    Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set

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  • Halfsense
    Halfsense Posts: 600 ✭✭✭
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    Donato, I don't think those are "scratches." The coin is MS67.

    "If it happens in numismatics, it's news to me....
  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Would be a nice look on silver. On gold, it doesn’t look “right” to me.

  • northcoin
    northcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2018 10:04AM
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    The point brought up before still intrigues me. It was suggested that the color was not toning of the coin itself, but rather toning of the added rust that became attached to the coin while on the sea floor. Would be interesting to learn more about what was done to the coin in the conservation process to remove surface deposits, if anything at all.

  • PhilLynott
    PhilLynott Posts: 900 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BryceM said:
    Would be a nice look on silver. On gold, it doesn’t look “right” to me.

    I think that's the only reason I do like it. It's unique and wasn't man made which I think everyone would assume it was if not for knowing the source. I'm curious what caused this and why only this one and not any of the other ones that sat down there with it. Such a strange and interesting coin.

  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    In 67, the luster must be simply amazing!

    My YouTube Channel

  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    its nice but its not for me, thanks though

  • golden
    golden Posts: 10,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Ugly!

  • RogerB
    RogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    A touting we shall go, a touting we shall go..... :)

  • lowcountrycoinut
    lowcountrycoinut Posts: 177 ✭✭✭
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    That's what makes this hobby so much fun! People have different tastes so they collect differently. Thanks for posting this. I will look forward to seeing the coin in person at the ANA.

    No good deed goes unpunished

    carolinacollectorcoins.com
  • RogerB
    RogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2018 8:57AM
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    Just don't bring along oxalic acid ! ;)

  • Dave99B
    Dave99B Posts: 8,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks rusty. Pass.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • Wabbit2313
    Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    From the fist time I saw that coin, until now, I thought it was ugly. It might qualify as natural toning, but there is nothing natural looking about it, at all!

  • northcoin
    northcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2018 7:41PM
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    Moneymonkey1:

    "AT........Atlantic Toning. :#"

    @CaptHenway said:
    Original crust-acean

    On a roll ... don't stop now!

  • ilikemonsters
    ilikemonsters Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
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    @Smudge said:
    Hasn't that one been on here before? Most did not like it.

    Yes. I posted on this and the 67+ earlier last week.

  • Kccoin
    Kccoin Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think she's the cover girl of the SS Central - like it or not

  • coinman1933
    coinman1933 Posts: 7 ✭
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    @ricko said:
    I am a gold lover... even crusty gold... However, that one is U G L Y!!!!! :s Cheers, RickO

    I respectfully disagree with you. I love toning.

  • yosclimber
    yosclimber Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    We discussed it back in January/February:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/993966/toned-ss-central-america-20

  • fiftysevener
    fiftysevener Posts: 943 ✭✭✭✭
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    Another market grade for some to ponder but a no grade for me. How about 'sunken details'

  • TommyType
    TommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2018 9:16PM
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    Question: If that came to PCGS in the mail, and wasn't a known deep sea find....what would they have done with it? Questionable color? Environmental Damage?

    Not a real fan myself....but you have to admit, it's "different".

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • TommyType
    TommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CaptHenway said:
    Whoever buys this coin may find himself under water in a few years.......

    I see what you did there..... :tongue:

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • keets
    keets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I don't believe this discussion should have anything to do with tone and whether this coin or others from the hoard should be viewed as toned, AT, NT or any other way too discuss them.

    shouldn't we just acknowledge that they have been environmentally damaged??

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I agree with @keets ....All tarnish is environmental damage, however, this one is extreme...Enameled coins are more attractive - and I do not care for them either. Cheers, RickO

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,937 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @fiftysevener said:
    Another market grade for some to ponder but a no grade for me. How about 'sunken details'

    I wonder if this coin would have gotten a grade if it had not been recovered from the SS Central America? I think the usual grade might have been “environmental damage.”

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • originalisbest
    originalisbest Posts: 5,971 ✭✭✭✭
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    It's fugly. Simple as that. No amount of hyperbole will help convince otherwise.

  • ShadyDave
    ShadyDave Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If any of us ever submitted a gold coin with toning like this to PCGS, it would come back "CODE 91 - Questionable Color" or "CODE 97 - Environmental Damage".

    Yes, I agree with many other users that this coin is hideous.

  • MilkmanDan
    MilkmanDan Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ShadyDave said:
    If any of us ever submitted a gold coin with toning like this to PCGS, it would come back "CODE 91 - Questionable Color" or "CODE 97 - Environmental Damage".

    Yes, I agree with many other users that this coin is hideous.

    The history of the coin helps with the determination, as it should.

  • keets
    keets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The history of the coin helps with the determination, as it should

    really??

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2018 8:28AM
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    @OriginalDan said:

    @ShadyDave said:
    If any of us ever submitted a gold coin with toning like this to PCGS, it would come back "CODE 91 - Questionable Color" or "CODE 97 - Environmental Damage".

    Yes, I agree with many other users that this coin is hideous.

    The history of the coin helps with the determination, as it should.

    It should NOT. It is fine to put its provenance on their holder, but if PCGS considers that to NOT be environmental damage or artificial toning then they must NEVER consider it to be. PCGS has standards it could apply to these coins. The market could choose, as it often has, to ignore the damage on sea salvage coins. But pretending that these coins are not either damaged or cleaned or both undermines their very standards.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @asheland said:
    In 67, the luster must be simply amazing!

    You are assuming the same standards apply to these coins as other submissions.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RogerB said:
    Identical grading standards must apply regardless of provenance, emotional connection, or assumed "value." Otherwise, coin grading, and all of its implications, are false and an outright fraud.

    Agree. And it feeds into the (possibly true) sense that some pigs are more equal than others.

    And there IS a precedent. Spanish coins from shipwrecks are noted either as "shipwreck coins" or even "environmental damage"

    https://ebay.com/itm/PCGS-Rare-Shipwreck-Effect-Spain-8-Reale-Cob-Philip-III-1599-62-Pillar-Coin/173423494619?hash=item2860d885db%3Ag%3AfB4AAOSwHxFbUpiZ%3Asc%3AUSPSFirstClass%2114623%21US%21-1&_sop=10&_sacat=0&_nkw=shipwreck+pcgs&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0%7C0

    https://ebay.com/itm/1854-So-Chile-1-Peso-SS-Central-America-Gold-Label-PCGS-Certified-Shipwreck/192524071299?hash=item2cd3543183%3Ag%3A~sUAAOSwcuRa53hF&_sop=10&_sacat=0&_nkw=shipwreck+pcgs&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0%7C0

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • RogerB
    RogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Grading MUST be as objective, impartial and consistent as humanly (or mechanically) possible. Failure in one circumstance destroys ALL TRUST and credibility in any 'grading' decision.

    A lie is a lie. More lies will not make it truth.

  • BillDugan1959
    BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Environmentally damaged. Coin shop owner might offer melt if a private metal detectorist brought this in.

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