Oddly, I've been on several sides of this now multifaceted thing. Back in the day, I bought from a local B&M store. I got to know the guys that worked the store pretty well. They weren't out to rip off any old ladies and offered fairly strong prices, but only on coins that they knew would sell quickly. Other coins that had no real numismatic value, they offer spot price at the time. Their margins were pretty thin. Most of their business was online. When I had to sell some of my collection, they offered me strong money... but I knew I wouldn't get 100% of my money back.
When I moved to a larger city, I couldn't really find a B&M store that had the same feel, so, I just started going to one of the big shows a few times a year. Fates again intervened, and I had to sell. This time, I sold on this BST and on Ebay. It took several weeks, but I managed to actually make money. Some pieces I thought would go for higher, I ended up losing money on some... but I had some surprises on coins that I purchased low, but sold for stronger money.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@DoubleEagle59 said:
When you mix ethics with making a profit, you get all sorts of outcomes.
On one hand, in a perfect world, the dealer should be upfront with the value of the goods and offer an honest, fair price.
On the other hand, if the seller is ignorant of his or her other options (Ebay, certification or doing one's own research), then you could say, 'hey, it's a free country and I (as a dealer) will try to buy this as low as possible'.
You choose.......either outcomes happens.
I can't sit high on my soap box and put down the dealer that chooses to pay as little as possible.
We're hypocrates if we do.
Why? Because we all do it to some extent.
Look at all the posts of how we cherrypick items off of Ebay for such low prices when the coin is worth so much more.
Not to get religious but 'let he without sin cast the first stone'.
You can also toss into this argument the other current thread about everyone wanting to negotiate down the prices on eBay by 25%.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@keets said:
if you inherit a collection and don't know anything about coins it will be hard to know what to have encapsulated. I think that is poor advice to give someone.
This!
You'll end up with a $10,000 collection in $20,000 worth of plastic.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@mkman123 said:
You wanna know horror stories.......just go ask crazyhounddog. He can tell you horror stories about the dealer in his area. We aren't talking about a coin worth 100 and a dealer offering 60-80, were talking about straight up ripping them off.
Average $70 sounds fair to me. Stamps are often bought for less than 20% of their catalog value. We are possibly forgetting that the hoarded, coin accumulator, and collector probably had lots of enjoyment from his stuff. When dead,, he has no control over it even if he left appraisals, and notes on his costs, or even slabs.
At this point in time, NO ONE can tell someone what to offer for a coin. "They" have made attempts to control what things should be sold for by prosecuting folks who have gone well over the limits - even past the TV sales.
Agree.
We're also usually talking about widgets which are a tough sell at anywhere near catalog. If someone brings in a collection of AU Morgan $s that the greysheets says bid at $30, you are going to get offered $20-$22. That is NOT because the dealer is going to sell them for $30. It is because the dealer is going to bag them up and flip them at $24-$26.
True story. I have a guy who has spent THREE YEARS selling me his father's collection of widgets. It has taken this long because he looks up EVERY COIN on eBay. I even gave him a Greysheet to help out.
All the local dealers knew his father. His father preferred volume to quality. He would go around weekly and buy everyone's foreign silver junk box and all of their partial wheat cents Whitman albums. [He has a wall of 1941-1974 Lincoln cent Whitman albums.]
So, this guy insisted that a fair margin was 30%. So he'd show me a roll of heavily circulated 1901 Indian cents and tell me that the catalog value is $2 each so he wants $1.40. It took me 3 months to explain to him that I'm not going to spend the next 10 years selling his Indian cents one at a time for $2 each. I'm going to dump the whole roll into my Indian cent bucket and wholesale them at 75 cents each, so I'd pay 60 cents.
I don't even have time to go into our "negotiation" over his cull dollars - and I mean bent and holed, not lightly dipped.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Dealers gotta eat too.
They can't fleece the knowledgeable, so some prey on those that don't know any better and don't know that they have been taken. In those cases, it is just a matter of how severe the haircut is.
As Jdimmick has already posted, there are dealers in NC that will take you to the cleaners and still find a way to sleep at night. Those are the dealers I try to cherry pick to the max at local shows - turnabout is fair play. I typically won't buy from them, nor will I sell to them.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
@ColonelJessup said:
If you walk into a store with a flashy dipped-out 1896 $1 NGC PF67CAM, the discounted value from a PCGS PR67CAM CAC could easily be 40% or more. The same two coins raw and the spread is even wider. In a shop and an auction and on the bourse floor too. True in a significant number of different series across multiple grade ranges.
But you are assuming they actually look at the coin - those are a rare breed indeed these days. Many outside of the major show circuit regulars give a cursory glance at the label and then hold their faces down to the CDN for the rest of the conversation.
Cameonut brings up a good point, I don't mind hitting these dealers hard if they miss something, sometimes, they smoke the customer out of a coin or two, but then a knowledgeable dealer can smoke them just as bad. One of the two dealers I mentioned here in town, gets hammered all the time by me, as well as a few of the other bigger boys when they do shows, or when the national dealer is passing thru.
about two months ago, one of these dealers bought a nice bust half from a walkin for 15 bucks, sold it to me for 85.00, but I got it holdered in 58 and sold it for 600.00.
also, another dealer (gold shop buyer) bought a stack of morgans for 10 bucks each, I went thru and pulled out a MS 1885-s and 1903-o. submitted them and sold them. He sold them to me at 20 bucks each to double his money. I made a few more $
I bought an inherited collection last week for $103k. They were floored! As I wrote the check, one of them said that they were thinking maybe it was worth $5k. That’s why I NEVER ask owners what they want for it. Most people have no idea.
In the end, I made their day. They made mine. I hope to make 10-15% and will sleep like a baby.
Veep, that's really fantastic to hear, I can't tell you how many people in the business would have slammed this family especially with them not knowing. haven't had one that size in a while, but many times I get same the reaction that folks are surprised at how much a collection actually is worth.
@Veep said:
I bought an inherited collection last week for $103k. They were floored! As I wrote the check, one of them said that they were thinking maybe it was worth $5k. That’s why I NEVER ask owners what they want for it. Most people have no idea.
In the end, I made their day. They made mine. I hope to make 10-15% and will sleep like a baby.
You may be very lucky to get it. USUALLY, when a dealer offers that much more for a collection, the people walk! Then they tell the next guy what you offered and he gets the collection by paying slightly more.
Otherwise, they were lowballed by several dealers and you offered a very fair price which they took.
@Veep said:
I bought an inherited collection last week for $103k. They were floored! As I wrote the check, one of them said that they were thinking maybe it was worth $5k. That’s why I NEVER ask owners what they want for it. Most people have no idea.
In the end, I made their day. They made mine. I hope to make 10-15% and will sleep like a baby.
You know the market for coins, this is a win/win situation; hopefully you will make enough, 30%?
Offers, pricing of collectibles should be based on proper assessments, more than one professional set of eyes with current results reflected in rational offers.
Many dealers lie when buying, and then when selling to maximize their profits. The counters to unethical business practice are not very strong; maybe weak buyers get fewer collections, or they up their advertising as "highest prices paid" and get enough to keep their business afloat.
There are issues that come up with raw coins that ethically are no win situations. These situations come up all the time and based on todays market grading and people's need for fast money. Here is an example that comes up all too often. Person walks in with a 84-S dollar with considerable luster, some diffuse marks with a big scratch moderately hidden. You offer to slab it before making an offer, they say no. What do you pay? The distribution of grades it could come back at are AU Details Scr. AU58, Unc Det Scr, MS61, MS62. All of these grades have a reasonable possibility of happening and the spread between one extreme to the other is 200-18k. Given I would be willing to chop off the AU Details option bringing the spread to 1000-18k because a net graded AU58 is possible.
@rainbowroosie said:
Leave instructions with the right sellers for your heirs. My daughter knows which coins she will sell in a Heritage FUN auction, through private sale by Onlyroosies, and on eBay through Greattoning.
When you have a plan for your heirs to move items through particular entities after your passing, make sure you have alternates listed in case those entities beat you to it.
@Greeniejr said:
There are issues that come up with raw coins that ethically are no win situations. These situations come up all the time and based on todays market grading and people's need for fast money. Here is an example that comes up all too often. Person walks in with a 84-S dollar with considerable luster, some diffuse marks with a big scratch moderately hidden. You offer to slab it before making an offer, they say no. What do you pay? The distribution of grades it could come back at are AU Details Scr. AU58, Unc Det Scr, MS61, MS62. All of these grades have a reasonable possibility of happening and the spread between one extreme to the other is 200-18k. Given I would be willing to chop off the AU Details option bringing the spread to 1000-18k because a net graded AU58 is possible.
And the critical matter of grade may only develop later, after a re-submission. I bought an AU details $5 classic in an older NGC details holder from a dealer; on resubmission it graded AU55. I have had old holder PCGS MS63 coins no grade on crack out due to light hairlines that looked "64" to me and another show dealer. A month or two later after some time on a sunny windowsill it grades the 64 and I probably broke even.
@opportunity said:
Logger, perhaps you should go to a coin show to watch for people buying under priced coins, and whisper to the dealer about what's happening.
Most of the time the raw coins offered at coin shows are overpriced. BTW how did you make out with that rare ebay 1812/1 Bust half?
@Treashunt said:
Okay , so, is it okay to "cherrypick" a dealer?
Yes but what does this have to do with the thread topic?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@cameonut2011 said:
When many offer 40% percent back of bid (or whatever they call it now) for decent certified coins, what did you expect the numbers would look like for raw coins?
@Treashunt said:
Okay , so, is it okay to "cherrypick" a dealer?
Yes but what does this have to do with the thread topic?
Everyone is talking about ethics, that is what it has to do.
If I say, saw a 1909 S Lincoln cent for, oh, lets say $40.
And then flipped it over and saw the VDB on the reverse, should I tell the dealer?
who, likely did not pay for it as an S VDB, and won't pass the additional income back to the seller.
The dealer is supposed to be the expert here whereas the walk in traffic is not. If the "expert" can't be bothered to look closer or pay attention, too bad for them. There is always someone who is more "expert" out there.
If you think coins are bad, try antiques. Both on the buy and sell end the industry is a minefield. When selling to a dealer, your antiques are worthless, when buying you paying retail+ in most cases. Plus, many dealers seed in reproduction antiques, which clouds the situation even worse. PBS had a show called Market Warriors back in 2012 where "experts" bought antiques at fairs and try to make money on them at auction houses. Most of the time even the experts lost money.
To make everything in the hobby "fair and equal" (is not that an expressed goal of large segments of society today????) and to avoid outcomes:
A. where a person's or a company's hobby efforts (arising from years of hard work and education on the subject matter) result in the person or company obtaining "obscene profits" ; and/or
B. where a person's or a company's lack of initiative, lack of knowledge, lack of common sense and disinterest results in the person or company selling coins at 5-10% of their wholesale market value, or buying a coin for $500.00 off of a TV show when it could be purchased for $20.00 at a coin show
a system should be set up to where a Third Party Overseer (public/government or private) is established that would be in charge of handling all numismatic/bullion transactions, including grading, including determining the sale/purchase price [price controls] and including the approval or rejection of such transactions.
We certainly would not want "obscene profits" or "rip offs" to take place, because darn it, those situations are "just not fair", regardless of the talents, knowledge, abilities and drive (or lack thereof) of the participants in the transaction.
Turning to sports, the everyone and everything (connected with human beings) must be "fair and equal" mindset should prevail in the NBA, with the result being that 50% of team roster spots and 50% of playing time (including in the playoffs and the Championship series) must be given to persons (male, female or a hybrid of same) who are shorter than 5'6" tall, are morbidly overweight with a BMI of 35%, are out of shape and are over 40 years of age.
Fair is fair, equal is equal and everyone must have fairness and equality in all aspects of their lives.
No one can have more than anyone else,........................................... except for those who have appointed themselves to be the ones who decide what is fair and equal for everyone else [these persons of course deserve "more" because of them taking on the difficult job of making decisions for everyone else; a noble cause, filled with self sacrifice and untold labor devoted not to themselves, but to the common good of all].
Diatribe over
Time to get back to searching for a coin that are worth $X (due to it being a not very well known variety) that is available for purchase at 50% of X.
This is very simple. I showed my wife my coins in the safe deposit box. She told me which ones she likes. My trust states that she can keep whichever coins she likes. The Trust states that the rest of my heirs can keep whichever coins they like. The rest go to a dealer I know and trust for sale / auction.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@Treashunt said:
Okay , so, is it okay to "cherrypick" a dealer?
Yes but what does this have to do with the thread topic?
Everyone is talking about ethics, that is what it has to do.
If I say, saw a 1909 S Lincoln cent for, oh, lets say $40.
And then flipped it over and saw the VDB on the reverse, should I tell the dealer?
who, likely did not pay for it as an S VDB, and won't pass the additional income back to the seller.
It would depend on the dealer. If it's a dealer who is fair and honest with his customers, I would tell him. If it's a dealer that's out to screw the customer, then I wouldn't tell him.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Treashunt said:
Okay , so, is it okay to "cherrypick" a dealer?
And then flipped it over and saw the VDB on the reverse, should I tell the dealer?
who, likely did not pay for it as an S VDB, and won't pass the additional income back to the seller.
It would depend on the dealer. If it's a dealer who is fair and honest with his customers, I would tell him. If it's a dealer that's out to screw the customer, then I wouldn't tell him.
Situational ethics at its best. So, if the dealer looks at the customer and he thinks he's a slimeball, it would be okay to low-ball the slimeball?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Unfortunately ethics and coin dealers are mostly antonyms of one another. Have never experienced a greater group of parasites lest politicians of course. lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
I am the 'go-to' guy for about 7 collectors in our area . . . as the person who is in charge of disposal of the collection in case of untimely demise. If you can get to that stage of numismatics, let's say that you can at least sleep at night. . . . the world is OK and your rep is intact . . . . . . .
Believe I saw a recent article about a proof seated dime being "found" by a dealer. The "find" occurred after looking at the different piles of small stuff purchases that walked in the door.
So, basically, the expert, is going to make thousands.
@acloco said:
Believe I saw a recent article about a proof seated dime being "found" by a dealer. The "find" occurred after looking at the different piles of small stuff purchases that walked in the door.
So, basically, the expert, is going to make thousands.
That is a gross oversimplification. To represent that the dealer did anything wrong is ridiculous. If you want to get on a dealer for buying an SVDB as a VDB, sure that's troubling. If someone completely misrepresents something that should be immediately discernible is a problem. This dealer bought in a lightly circulated seated coin that they had no reason to believe was proof. How long should they have sat and mulled over the coin when it was first brought in. It just doesn't make sense. Unless you have some facts that are not out there, the dealer acted in a reasonable way and through significant research found a cherry.
This reminds me of a situation from my previous job where we purchased a PCGS Fugio based on the Red Book variety. The seller seemed at least moderately knowledgeable and we paid a fair price for what it was. After many hours of research, our variety expert determined it was a rare variety of the major variety. How can a company do business if they have to drop everything to do hours of research in the middle of the day on the off chance the coin it is a rare subvariety?
So yes they deserve every cent of this and should be able to sleep very well at night knowing that they acted ethically.
How can a company do business if they have to drop everything to do hours of research in the middle of the day on the off chance the coin it is a rare subvariety?
Not only this, but on the off chance they will be able to actually buy it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Comments
Oddly, I've been on several sides of this now multifaceted thing. Back in the day, I bought from a local B&M store. I got to know the guys that worked the store pretty well. They weren't out to rip off any old ladies and offered fairly strong prices, but only on coins that they knew would sell quickly. Other coins that had no real numismatic value, they offer spot price at the time. Their margins were pretty thin. Most of their business was online. When I had to sell some of my collection, they offered me strong money... but I knew I wouldn't get 100% of my money back.
When I moved to a larger city, I couldn't really find a B&M store that had the same feel, so, I just started going to one of the big shows a few times a year. Fates again intervened, and I had to sell. This time, I sold on this BST and on Ebay. It took several weeks, but I managed to actually make money. Some pieces I thought would go for higher, I ended up losing money on some... but I had some surprises on coins that I purchased low, but sold for stronger money.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
You can also toss into this argument the other current thread about everyone wanting to negotiate down the prices on eBay by 25%.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
This!
You'll end up with a $10,000 collection in $20,000 worth of plastic.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Agree.
We're also usually talking about widgets which are a tough sell at anywhere near catalog. If someone brings in a collection of AU Morgan $s that the greysheets says bid at $30, you are going to get offered $20-$22. That is NOT because the dealer is going to sell them for $30. It is because the dealer is going to bag them up and flip them at $24-$26.
True story. I have a guy who has spent THREE YEARS selling me his father's collection of widgets. It has taken this long because he looks up EVERY COIN on eBay. I even gave him a Greysheet to help out.
All the local dealers knew his father. His father preferred volume to quality. He would go around weekly and buy everyone's foreign silver junk box and all of their partial wheat cents Whitman albums. [He has a wall of 1941-1974 Lincoln cent Whitman albums.]
So, this guy insisted that a fair margin was 30%. So he'd show me a roll of heavily circulated 1901 Indian cents and tell me that the catalog value is $2 each so he wants $1.40. It took me 3 months to explain to him that I'm not going to spend the next 10 years selling his Indian cents one at a time for $2 each. I'm going to dump the whole roll into my Indian cent bucket and wholesale them at 75 cents each, so I'd pay 60 cents.
I don't even have time to go into our "negotiation" over his cull dollars - and I mean bent and holed, not lightly dipped.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
knowing i have them, i feel blessed. cheers to all of us that are pure.
Dealers gotta eat too.
They can't fleece the knowledgeable, so some prey on those that don't know any better and don't know that they have been taken. In those cases, it is just a matter of how severe the haircut is.
As Jdimmick has already posted, there are dealers in NC that will take you to the cleaners and still find a way to sleep at night. Those are the dealers I try to cherry pick to the max at local shows - turnabout is fair play. I typically won't buy from them, nor will I sell to them.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
But you are assuming they actually look at the coin - those are a rare breed indeed these days. Many outside of the major show circuit regulars give a cursory glance at the label and then hold their faces down to the CDN for the rest of the conversation.
Cameonut brings up a good point, I don't mind hitting these dealers hard if they miss something, sometimes, they smoke the customer out of a coin or two, but then a knowledgeable dealer can smoke them just as bad. One of the two dealers I mentioned here in town, gets hammered all the time by me, as well as a few of the other bigger boys when they do shows, or when the national dealer is passing thru.
about two months ago, one of these dealers bought a nice bust half from a walkin for 15 bucks, sold it to me for 85.00, but I got it holdered in 58 and sold it for 600.00.
also, another dealer (gold shop buyer) bought a stack of morgans for 10 bucks each, I went thru and pulled out a MS 1885-s and 1903-o. submitted them and sold them. He sold them to me at 20 bucks each to double his money. I made a few more $
I bought an inherited collection last week for $103k. They were floored! As I wrote the check, one of them said that they were thinking maybe it was worth $5k. That’s why I NEVER ask owners what they want for it. Most people have no idea.
In the end, I made their day. They made mine. I hope to make 10-15% and will sleep like a baby.
Veep, that's really fantastic to hear, I can't tell you how many people in the business would have slammed this family especially with them not knowing. haven't had one that size in a while, but many times I get same the reaction that folks are surprised at how much a collection actually is worth.
You may be very lucky to get it. USUALLY, when a dealer offers that much more for a collection, the people walk! Then they tell the next guy what you offered and he gets the collection by paying slightly more.
Otherwise, they were lowballed by several dealers and you offered a very fair price which they took.
You know the market for coins, this is a win/win situation; hopefully you will make enough, 30%?
Offers, pricing of collectibles should be based on proper assessments, more than one professional set of eyes with current results reflected in rational offers.
Many dealers lie when buying, and then when selling to maximize their profits. The counters to unethical business practice are not very strong; maybe weak buyers get fewer collections, or they up their advertising as "highest prices paid" and get enough to keep their business afloat.
Buyers hedge their bets on raw coins. Many not wanting risk a nickel just offer melt.
Considering a raw coin could be counterfeit - generous offer?
Got Bluebook?
Me too! Both grandmothers and both of their moms collected
There are issues that come up with raw coins that ethically are no win situations. These situations come up all the time and based on todays market grading and people's need for fast money. Here is an example that comes up all too often. Person walks in with a 84-S dollar with considerable luster, some diffuse marks with a big scratch moderately hidden. You offer to slab it before making an offer, they say no. What do you pay? The distribution of grades it could come back at are AU Details Scr. AU58, Unc Det Scr, MS61, MS62. All of these grades have a reasonable possibility of happening and the spread between one extreme to the other is 200-18k. Given I would be willing to chop off the AU Details option bringing the spread to 1000-18k because a net graded AU58 is possible.
When you have a plan for your heirs to move items through particular entities after your passing, make sure you have alternates listed in case those entities beat you to it.
I think I would rather have my integrity than a few bucks.
How quaint.
I thought that type of thinking had gone the way of rotary phones and 8-track tapes. The world could use more of it.
And the critical matter of grade may only develop later, after a re-submission. I bought an AU details $5 classic in an older NGC details holder from a dealer; on resubmission it graded AU55. I have had old holder PCGS MS63 coins no grade on crack out due to light hairlines that looked "64" to me and another show dealer. A month or two later after some time on a sunny windowsill it grades the 64 and I probably broke even.
Logger, perhaps you should go to a coin show to watch for people buying under priced coins, and whisper to the dealer about what's happening.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
Most of the time the raw coins offered at coin shows are overpriced. BTW how did you make out with that rare ebay 1812/1 Bust half?
Okay , so, is it okay to "cherrypick" a dealer?
BHNC #203
Yes but what does this have to do with the thread topic?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Everyone is talking about ethics, that is what it has to do.
If I say, saw a 1909 S Lincoln cent for, oh, lets say $40.
And then flipped it over and saw the VDB on the reverse, should I tell the dealer?
who, likely did not pay for it as an S VDB, and won't pass the additional income back to the seller.
BHNC #203
For a grade or two down too...
The dealer is supposed to be the expert here whereas the walk in traffic is not. If the "expert" can't be bothered to look closer or pay attention, too bad for them. There is always someone who is more "expert" out there.
If you think coins are bad, try antiques. Both on the buy and sell end the industry is a minefield. When selling to a dealer, your antiques are worthless, when buying you paying retail+ in most cases. Plus, many dealers seed in reproduction antiques, which clouds the situation even worse. PBS had a show called Market Warriors back in 2012 where "experts" bought antiques at fairs and try to make money on them at auction houses. Most of the time even the experts lost money.
To make everything in the hobby "fair and equal" (is not that an expressed goal of large segments of society today????) and to avoid outcomes:
A. where a person's or a company's hobby efforts (arising from years of hard work and education on the subject matter) result in the person or company obtaining "obscene profits" ; and/or
B. where a person's or a company's lack of initiative, lack of knowledge, lack of common sense and disinterest results in the person or company selling coins at 5-10% of their wholesale market value, or buying a coin for $500.00 off of a TV show when it could be purchased for $20.00 at a coin show
a system should be set up to where a Third Party Overseer (public/government or private) is established that would be in charge of handling all numismatic/bullion transactions, including grading, including determining the sale/purchase price [price controls] and including the approval or rejection of such transactions.
We certainly would not want "obscene profits" or "rip offs" to take place, because darn it, those situations are "just not fair", regardless of the talents, knowledge, abilities and drive (or lack thereof) of the participants in the transaction.
Turning to sports, the everyone and everything (connected with human beings) must be "fair and equal" mindset should prevail in the NBA, with the result being that 50% of team roster spots and 50% of playing time (including in the playoffs and the Championship series) must be given to persons (male, female or a hybrid of same) who are shorter than 5'6" tall, are morbidly overweight with a BMI of 35%, are out of shape and are over 40 years of age.
Fair is fair, equal is equal and everyone must have fairness and equality in all aspects of their lives.
No one can have more than anyone else,........................................... except for those who have appointed themselves to be the ones who decide what is fair and equal for everyone else [these persons of course deserve "more" because of them taking on the difficult job of making decisions for everyone else; a noble cause, filled with self sacrifice and untold labor devoted not to themselves, but to the common good of all].
Diatribe over
Time to get back to searching for a coin that are worth $X (due to it being a not very well known variety) that is available for purchase at 50% of X.
This is very simple. I showed my wife my coins in the safe deposit box. She told me which ones she likes. My trust states that she can keep whichever coins she likes. The Trust states that the rest of my heirs can keep whichever coins they like. The rest go to a dealer I know and trust for sale / auction.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
It would depend on the dealer. If it's a dealer who is fair and honest with his customers, I would tell him. If it's a dealer that's out to screw the customer, then I wouldn't tell him.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Situational ethics at its best. So, if the dealer looks at the customer and he thinks he's a slimeball, it would be okay to low-ball the slimeball?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Unfortunately ethics and coin dealers are mostly antonyms of one another. Have never experienced a greater group of parasites lest politicians of course. lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Best recommendation you can get?
I am the 'go-to' guy for about 7 collectors in our area . . . as the person who is in charge of disposal of the collection in case of untimely demise. If you can get to that stage of numismatics, let's say that you can at least sleep at night. . . . the world is OK and your rep is intact . . . . . . .
Drunner
Believe I saw a recent article about a proof seated dime being "found" by a dealer. The "find" occurred after looking at the different piles of small stuff purchases that walked in the door.
So, basically, the expert, is going to make thousands.
That is a gross oversimplification. To represent that the dealer did anything wrong is ridiculous. If you want to get on a dealer for buying an SVDB as a VDB, sure that's troubling. If someone completely misrepresents something that should be immediately discernible is a problem. This dealer bought in a lightly circulated seated coin that they had no reason to believe was proof. How long should they have sat and mulled over the coin when it was first brought in. It just doesn't make sense. Unless you have some facts that are not out there, the dealer acted in a reasonable way and through significant research found a cherry.
This reminds me of a situation from my previous job where we purchased a PCGS Fugio based on the Red Book variety. The seller seemed at least moderately knowledgeable and we paid a fair price for what it was. After many hours of research, our variety expert determined it was a rare variety of the major variety. How can a company do business if they have to drop everything to do hours of research in the middle of the day on the off chance the coin it is a rare subvariety?
So yes they deserve every cent of this and should be able to sleep very well at night knowing that they acted ethically.
How can a company do business if they have to drop everything to do hours of research in the middle of the day on the off chance the coin it is a rare subvariety?
Not only this, but on the off chance they will be able to actually buy it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.