Just an opinion.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
Lately, The PCGS US Coin Forum seems to be dominated by new members with strong opinions which override knowledge and the results are predictable. Things have taken a turn over the past year and maybe longer. I for one see it as a bad thing which isn't getting better any time soon.
Al H.
14
Comments
Agreed! It's one thing if people want to learn and are willing to accept advice and act on what they have learned but it's a totally different thing when people are told the same thing over and over again only to have the same things keep popping up every day!
HAPPY COLLECTING
The solution is ignore them.
I am a huge advocate for helping and teaching new collectors, but these guys show no interest in learning or taking advice. They are only interested in finding something valuable with the help of overly active imaginations.
You can explain to them that what they think they have is scarce and unusual. You don't find large numbers of them in hoards of old coins. If they were that common, they would have little collector value. You can explain to them that damaged, corroded and badly worn coins, even if the coin is scarce, have limited value. None of that ever sinks in with them. They just continue posting too many pictures of stuff that is little more than pocket change or even just pocket change.
Years ago, I was in a forum that debated news-related topics of the day. chronwatch.com. The site had posters who were - shall we say - toward the right wing. The forum was wonderful IMO, but would have to be regularly cleared of threads related to homosexual topics. At some points, fully half the threads would be related to this topic. These 'hot topics' threads would turn quite toxic, as they filled with contributions from devout homophobes . After numerous warnings from the moderators (and dozens of the 'gay' threads deleted), a general prohibition on the topic was installed and enforced.
The CAC threads on this forum are a 'hot topic'. Although nowhere near the vitriol seen on political sites, the discourse does get a bit course at times. One can readily recognize that 99%+ of the CAC negativity is simple jealousy, however, one also observes the same questions are asked and answered over and over and over and over and over again. By the same posters. Perhaps they should give the 'golly gee willikers' bit a rest. Some of the what-if scenarios related to John Albanese and how he runs (or could run) his affairs are insulting in some cases and border on slander in the worst cases.
The CAC issue has changed the forum. However, I do not believe the situation (in terms of prevalence of the subject matter as it relates to the totality of issues on the forum) has reached an 'infestation' level. Mostly, the CAC threads are rehashes. If we get to 50% of the threads related to CAC - then action by the moderators would be appropriate.
Indeed we have some new participants that cannot accept the fact that they really do not know or understand numismatics....At least it appears that way... I have also considered they may be trolls - either disgruntled past members or bored individuals pursuing entertainment through keyboard aggravation. Many of us have tried the welcoming approach and provided information and advice. So far it has seemingly fallen on deaf ears. It may be time to simply ignore these posts. Cheers, RickO
When those topics attract lots of comments, it only encourages things. When nobody responds the posters usually gets bored and moves on.
The comments about CAC and questionable questions from new members are part of the territory. While not of interest to many or maybe most, they are of interest to at least one member, the poster, so why get annoyed? It won't change anything except to make you upset. Just skip the subjects of no interest and read what you like. No need to read all threads.
It may take a while for new members to grasp the flow of the forum. Worse is to have a stagnant forum that attracts no fresh thoughts and ideas.
I think ignore is the best option right now, until the quantity of their ignored posts with no comments from others reaches a truly distracting proportion of legitimate postings, then the Mods should take some kind of action, JMO
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
being new myself, a little over a year here, I believe several of those posts are trolls. I ask questions sometimes, make what I hope are witty comments from time to time, but mostly I read....sometimes I feel like a young kid listening to all the adults in the room talking even though I'm 45...but it's how I learn....
Don't quote me on that.
The story of the young woman with the sick child who found the 1969-s double die got picked up by the news services leading to a much wider audience than the usual numismatic community. Any time a story like this hits (43 copper cent selling usually) regilar people get fired up. Who wouldn't love to find an extra 25k in their pocket? Included in that group are folks who are struggling and would be thrilled to find a coin worth even 50-500 bucks so any minor thing gives them hope. Most only leave disappointed but some just get angry. You just have to ignore them, they'll quickly move on. Hopefully 1% of everyone else who reads the story gets interested in coins and those are the ones to spend your time & efforts with fostering their new hobby
I just do not understand. I am a very new collector, since maybe mid march, and a very new person on this board. The posters constantly get told solid advice but they seem to ignore it and keep posting. At first I thought they were new collectors but since it has continued I suspect they are just trolls. This place has a plethora of knowledge that I am sure many older folks here wished they had available when they started. Hell, I can message most long time members here and find out that they have been collecting since before I was born. I figured since it is summer maybe some bored kid just has nothing better to do. I do hope it stops though as while sure you can just ignore them, the threads to take up a lot of space on the front page. Pushing away better or actual content. A question I have is at what point do moderators step in and ban people?
A government accident left me a former man, a potato. That photo on my profile is a low resolution selfie. I like coins.
.....and I deal with them every single day,
on the phone, in emails, at coin shows.
I too always try to be honest and straightforward
with my observations - but after a certain number
of replies/comments/posts/whatever, I can become
a bit of a cynic, to to those who refuse to learn or
open their mind (and their eyes, instead of using
500 power magnifying glasses!)
Ignoring them is NOT a violation of the rules. Ignoring starts by not opening the thread.
Microscopic varieties and imagined "double dies" are the future of coin collecting! In addition, corroded surfaces are the next big thing, but only if they are natural and not artificial.
Do not open the thread, and certainly do not respond. If they get no attention perhaps they will give up. Remember the old saying bad publicity is better than no publicity.
The CAC threads do not bother me as I almost never open them. I have only a marginal interest in "beans" and since there are those who feel very strongly on all sides of that issue I just don't bother as my interest level is no where near theirs.
The endless non-existent DD and other invisible varieties do bother me after a while, as I do open those threads and try to make sense of what is often a nonsensical question. I suppose I could deploy my CAC thread tactic and just ignore them....
Agreed!
Odd that you've thrown CAC on this thread which never mentioned CAC. If this turns into another CAC thread, it's on you.
We learn what we don't know from others. By ignoring any member, we cut ourselves off from the time that "squirrel" MAY actually "find the nut" and share it.
I say contribute when you can, and crush the ignorant comments from an uninformed member as you would smack a bothersome sand flea with an 8" thick, 14 pound Webster's Unabridged Dictionary. If we keep discussion open to all, we will learn new things and hopefully bring everyone up to the level of those members we appreciate, admire, and are thankful for posting on this forum.
Could you send me your address? I've got a drone and a two volume Oxford English Dictionary.
How good is your aim?
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
@jmlanzaf said: "Could you send me your address? I've got a drone and a two volume Oxford English Dictionary."
ICG
PO Box 276000
Tampa, FL 33688
To me there are two competing issues----posts that add zero value whatsoever and may even provide misinformation vs. the free flow of thoughts and ideas. I error on the side of letting new or old members post their thoughts whatever they may (unless of course they are slanderous or of that ilk). On posts which I believe are of no value, I ignore and think that is the best course of action as others have mentioned. There are some on here who will discourage certain topics like CAC threads. That I don't get. Its a legitimate topic that is worthy of discussion. If someone does not want to read it or respond---great. However, by the views and responses to the threads, it appears many find them of value or entertaining. If someone posts an offensive post on a CAC thread, it is not the topic that is at fault, it is the individual who posts.
Completely agree with the original opinion in this thread.
Furthermore, it seems like moderation is very lax on these forums. Is there any way that the moderators can clamp down a little bit on things that get way too excessive? I feel like the moderation team could step in for the 10 new threads about DDO's and personal attacks over CAC each time the thread is made.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Drones don't deliver to P.O. Boxes.
CORRECTION: Anything being dropped by drone should go to this address:
PCGS
PO Box 9458
Newport Beach, CA
On our beloved hosts? NEVER!
Drowns are bad.
They have stepped in on occasion when threads have completely devolved into ad hominem attacks. For the most part, they stand back.
The personal attacks are one thing. The DDO threads themselves would fall within the rules of the forum. Frankly, more so than many of the fun, interesting topics that we enjoy. I mean, the DDO threads are chock full of (blurry) coin photos.
I have not been very active on the US Coin Forum recently, though I do check it out daily just to see if there are any new threads that interest me.
I have opened a few of the posts from newer members asking about doubled dies that they believe they have found.
Looking at the photos of the subject coins, including those enlarged photos showing dates and lettering where the doubling is claimed to be present is perplexing, causing me to question my eyesight and the eyesight of the persons who posted the threads.
At worst I am Sargent Schultz, because .................. "I SEE NOTHING".
At best I see possible, very minor strike doubling at more than 10X magnification.
The more dramatic the spread of the doubling, the greater the interest shown in same by those in the hobby (i.e. 1955 DDO Cent).
Perhaps these new members can form their own club (i.e. like the FS Nickel Club) devoted to searching for, researching, collecting, buying, selling and writing articles about these doubled dies that they are finding.
Whatever floats your boat,................. enjoy the Hobby Of Kings the way you want to. But do not expect other forum members to have an interest in your niche area.
If we are going to start flattening all the annoying "fleas" with drone-carried dictionaries, to paraphrase the line from "Jaws", "we're going to need a bigger drone".
Nothing says that the drone cannot have a 130 foot wingspan
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
The annoying "Fleas" know who they are just as I do when I play "annoying flea." IMO, no one asking a question is in that category.
The stupid avatars are a sure sign of "Keep Away". It's a shame that a small minority can disrupt the learning of others.
A few days ago when 5 flags were reached the thread went poof. Now THAT was an excellent feature. If we could get the mods to give us that feature it would be immensely useful to moderate these idiots when they get loose.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Most of these threads come off as trolls. That they know plenty well enough to be purposely annoying. We all appreciate good pictures, so really bad useless ones get posted. I’m naturally skeptical
...I thought you retired bro?
That might be why that feature is gone. The DDO threads do not break any rules. They are posts about coins.
We may have lost the feature because the feature was abused.
I don't think it was abused. These guys are here to throw a wrench in the works. Much like the idiots in school who push the educators over the edge and then cry to mom and the media that someone forced them to get out.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
This came up before with a different (maybe) troll. The mods weighed in that that particular (maybe) troll had not broken any Board rules so they wouldn't boot him even though he had 100+ flags.
I think they might view flagging someone for posting a blurry photo as inappropriate. It doesn't fall into "spam" or "abuse", and it doesn't break any Board rules.
They (the chronic repeat picture poster offenders) seem pretty easy to ignore to me. I quickly learn to recognize the user id, and just dont click and respond. With no responses they fall to the bottom quickly.
So the only real solution is to hope everyone elects to ignore them. Otherwise if they get one persons attention they continue to come back again and again.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Now that I think about it, didn't one of the trolls use the misspelled F word and also attack one of the posters here when told he should keep his DDO for future reference? I guess if we have to play by the rules with them they should follow the rules.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Those are the posts that can be flagged. Flagging a blurry photo won't attract the mods attention. At one point, the previous troll did get suspended for a while for some tirade.
This is just a subset of a larger problem that involves instant gratification and the inability to accept that work is required to master and understand matters... And that even extends to numismatics.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
In the legal arena it happens on a regular basis that attorneys (both new ones fresh out of law school and ones who have decades of experience) are so enamored of themselves that they believe that simply because they exist they know everything.
They expect that any and everyone around them will immediately believe everything that they say or write is the gospel truth. They will go into court for a case that is in a field that they have little or no experience in and expect that everything will go their way. When they make fools of themselves and demonstrate that they have no clue they get upset and are shocked that they do not get their way.
I Agree, and I'll admit I've been a little sarcastic on a few of those posts
Steve
I don’t think the caliber of noob isn’t necessarily lower. I think the old guard is older and a bit tired of seeing the same dance play out every generational cycle and the number of very high end collectors and experts who actively participate lower than it has been in the past. This has resulted in the simulating threads being fewer and further between.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Of course they’re trolls. Having been an administrator of an unrelated forum, our moderators or an admin would have given one nice warning (in case they really were legit) then deleted the useless threads if similar showed up again. Another offense would have resulted in a ban and block of their IP address.
Life is too short.