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$5 and $10 rare gold coins
Brontobrat
Posts: 11 ✭
I posted this in the Q&A forum and was advised to post it here. Please be patient with a non-collecting newbie.
I have asked for advice about 2 coins that we (hubs and I) inherited and I want to double check the advice with another group.
It was recommended to contact Heritage Auctions and to have CAC look at them. And that HA may be willing to negotiate their fee to sell them. I’m wanting to know if HA is the place to contact or should we contact someone else or multiple places? I agree with the advice that we received that eBay is a no-no. Hopefully the photos will upload.
And I have one question: the smaller coin reverse is off centered. Is that common?
9
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Try great collections or a national gold dealer. With only two coins a full service auction house will be charging a full service fee for very little service. You will get top value with a dealer for easy sales like these.
Try Consignment to David Lawrence or BrokenCC or maybe Doug winter. In fact I would start with Doug winter and call him directly.
Nice coins and let Doug (or dealer of choice) advise you but they don’t look like CAC candidates, the 98 looks decent patina wise but a little over graded (I have it at 40) and the 99 has some slight face damage and looks a little bright from an old cleaning (most are).
These old coins were crudely made and off center look is an alignment issue and common and within tolerances.
https://raregoldcoins.com
There is doug’s Web site, he is simply top shelf. You will get lots of vest pocket dealers who will reach out and offer to “help”. Mind you they will be looking to flip to other dealers at quick wholesalers rates. Bigger dealers sell directly to customers for higher retail rates so the net to you will be higher. 8% commission to a national dealer should typically beat a HA return or 5% to a wholesaler. Do the math
You have about 30k of value there, 25-27k should be your target in pocket IMHO but those aren’t my speciality
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Rare coins to be sure. I like them a lot. Way out of my league, I'm sure one of the experts will chime in.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Nice coins!
My YouTube Channel
Welcome to the forum, you will receive lots of advice from some of the experts here.
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Here is some more info on those two coins
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Thanks. Just got these back from PCGS. I thought they would indicate on the slab if either coin had been cleaned since they look at them under magnification, correct?
To add to some great advice you have already gotten, "Great Collections" is an auction house...
There are some heavy hitters in the area of early gold on this forum so hopefully they will weigh in also.
@1630Boston how did you find that info online? Or where I guess.
Be skeptical of the advice you get here, most responding mean well, but have never actually owned any early gold like your pieces. You have slightly scarcer varieties for each date. The $5 is BD-6 (rarity 5+), the $10 is BD-8 (rarity 5). I would never go to an auction house, if you want the name of a dealer with high integrity and honesty, private message me. Good luck.
I think there is a cert # lookup here on PCGS.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't a dealer with "high integrity and honesty" be happy to have his/her identity revealed here?
The goal is to get as much open input as possible so they can come to an educated decision, not huddle in the corner with one person who promises the best deal.
Also, why would you "never go to an auction house"? How about enlightening us? We are here to learn what we do not know.
I was the one who saw the original post on the Q&A Forum and advised @Brontobrat to re-post here for more replies. I should have warned them that it will be a wild ride, but there will be lots of good advice mixed in.
Take your time. Submitting them to PCGS was a good first step.
You may also wish to contact Douglas Winter Numismatics. I have no connection but have purchased from him and he would be my first go to for selling rare gold.
Yes. They are not considered "cleaned" (i.e. damaged with small hairline scratches) by PCGS. However, what @Crypto called "cleaned" is something less destructive. Some people call it "processed". It might involve "dipping" in a lightly acidic solution (I'm not sure).
The Cert Verification info was found on the main PCGS web page:
https://www.pcgs.com/cert
Anyone who has seen the certification number, such as those in the slab photos you posted, can use this tool to look it up.
You are on the right track. The fact that PCGS gave them a numeric grade means that they "like them" and believe them to be worth more-or-less what other coins in that same grade are worth. It doesn't mean that they were never cleaned. Right or wrong, early US gold gets more leniency when it comes to what it deemed "market acceptable." If this wasn't so, there would be very few of these coins in numerical holders. Early US gold with truly original surfaces is rather hard to find. Sadly, over the years, most of these coins were dipped or treated with other agents to make them more flashy to get a higher numerical grade (and therefore to sell for more.) CAC will reject the majority of early US gold coins they see for this (and other) reasons.
I'm no expert here, but I don't think they'll sticker these. However, you absolutely should still try it. The potential value difference is huge, certainly enough to warrant a shot at it.
As far as how to sell them, it depends on if you're in a hurry or not. Quick = cash advance from an auction house and settlement a month (or more.... or less) after the auction closes. In one way or another, they'll end up with 10-20% of the value as their fee. Slow = consign to a dealer (but maybe fast..... these are popular coins). You can work out specific terms with the dealer but get an agreement in writing for coins this valuable, and make sure they carry insurance, etc. Maximum profit = sell them yourself, but perhaps too nerve-wracking if you're unsure of the best price.
Doug Winter is great, and specializes in coins of this type.
What a great inheritance! These are historical treasures and reasonably scarce. I secretly hope one of my relatives........ wait..... that's just not gunna happen.
What I would do as well.
Rare gold has been my US specialty for some time. Call Doug 214 675 9897
Latin American Collection
Very nice coins!
RE:
I was the one who saw the original post on the Q&A Forum and advised @Brontobrat to re-post here for more replies. I should have warned them that it will be a wild ride...
You did them a great favor, 90% of the members providing advice here have never owned any early gold. The Bass-Dannreuther variety numbers I provided illustrated the subject pieces are not the most common for their date. If the owners want the name of a great dealer, I'll pass it on to them. If they do not, that's OK also.
What does this "great dealer" have to hide? Some other great dealers have been openly mentioned here. I assume they appreciate the public display of support and respect, not to mention the free advertising. One dealer in particular has been recommended by several well-established members.
These are beautiful looking gold pieces. Take your time selling them and show them to as many different people or auction houses as you can before doing what is best for you.
Good luck.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
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I called Doug, he said he was washing his hair this weekend. I called back and left a couple of messages, hopefully he will change his mind. In fact let me call back and try again, maybe he didn’t get the previous messages
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Washing his hair .... ??
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Bad joke, disregard
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Brontobrat, Instead of trying to figure out who to sell them to, just keep them in a safe place. Coins of this nature go up in value substantially as time passes. I have a few gold coins that are worth much more than I paid for them just ten years ago.
It's a new millennium if you call too many times they get an anti-stalking order. Not the 60's-70's when you could wear them down.
Here's my '98 in P-45 for comparison. Yours is the rarer "Small 8" variety. There were several different & distinctive varieties made at the mint that year. Several with the "Large 8"... many of those with distinctive die cracks or breaks which are easy markers for the variety, as you can see below over the "ES" in "STATES" and "O" in "OF". One particular "Large 8" variety was made with 14 stars over the eagle on the reverse, instead of the normal 13 stars. That is a rarer variety in itself. As has been mentioned, Doug Winter would be a good place to start if you are thinking of selling.
Charlottedude
Retail value of the pair is $35K...you and hubs have to make the tough decision to keep them or sell them...a good dealer will probably work for 10%...Doug Winter is your go-to guy...nice coins...good luck!!
Thank y’all for all of your input. It is all helpful - except the part about hair washing - still scratching my head on that one.
We are going to pursue selling the coins, but will take our time with it so we don’t do something stoooopid.
The only other coins in the inheritance were a batch of silver dollars 1881-1884 From what we can tell they must have been kinda run of the mill types. Prob hang on to those.
Doug Winters has a great reputation. Would be worth a phone call, and maybe another Dealer for comparison.
BTW, If you make a deal for the coins, get advice from Dealer on EXACTLY how to ship them. There have been some expensive coins lost in the mail in the last few years.
@DJM gets me
Don’t let people talk up the “rarer” die pairs as it relates to you selling. From a non-hobbiest perspective that isn’t where the value is and the coins more or less trade along the same values as normal pairs unless condition census or an extreme rarity. A rare pair might move a little quicker or get an extra bid or two at auction but that doesn’t really effect you.
Doug (or similar quality dealer) will know how to get the most value out of them and hence the most back to you
Good luck and ignore my hair joke
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Doug Winter would be my recommendation. I would give credence to what Boosibri, Crypto, and Charlottedude have to say about these coins and how to go about placing them.
I knew it would happen.
wow, those are great coins
Auctions are tempting but if you have a dealer who is an expert in the field and he/she knows the market and what they should sell for that saves you delays and the potential for a disappointing outcome. If you could get these moved at a solid price for 10% as was suggested, that sounds great to me.
Great looking gold coins. Welcome to the forum. You came to the right place.
please feel free to contact my office and I’ll be happy to discuss selling the coins and various options that you have. Best Jon
There's a chance you're right about the silver dollars. On the other hand, you've already shown that you can take decent pictures. Why not post some pics of the silver dollars for a sanity check? Sounds like you're not expecting much with those, so not much risk of disappointment...
I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said, as far as selling the coins.
But you don't see these 18th century golds every day, they are an awesome piece of history.
And I bet the PCGS grading room had a little more buzz
Than usual, as they don't run into
Many unmolested raw example too offten.
And Crypto, do you really think they got the 98 wrong by 5 points?
Or did they grade it what it's worth?
Market grading? See other thread.
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It's good to see a reputable dealer chime in and offer his services.
I hope @Brontobrat is happy when all the smoke settles.
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Wow, very nice !!!
At PCGS.com
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Congrats to @brontobrat and hubs for doing everything right so far: consulting with the forum, sending the coins off for grading, and most importantly not cleaning them or messing them up somehow...
Personally if there is an interesting story on the original collector and how he/she came to own these coins I'd like to hear it...also FYI any original receipts etc for the purchase of these coins can add to their provenance and interest...
We are all just temporary custodians of our coins...you did an excellent job!!!
Best of luck!!
All we really know about these coins is that my husband’s father flew to NYC to purchase them back in the 1980s sometime. We didn’t find any documentation of the sale. The bizzare thing was when my MIL passed a few years ago we of course had to go they all of her possessions which were now ours. In with many bullion coins and the silver dollars in mentioned were these 2 coins. They were simply stored in 2 paper coin envelopes. They had coin grading cards that I am assuming was the norm for the time they were purchased. We never knew he had purchased such rare coins. We knew he liked keeping bullion around, but this was a surprise.
And this part of the story will be loads of fun for you guys. We initially thought these were just coins he bought for the gold content and basically ignored them for at least a year or so. (This is how much we DONT know about coins) We just happened to mention them to a friend who is a collector and his jaw dropped. We are very grateful to him for his initial review of the coins.
One last question. Where can I find the history of the value of such coins? What they have sold for over the years in the past.
@Brontobrat ...Welcome aboard.... Those are amazing gold coins and very desirable. You have many recommendations above to contact Doug Winter... a very reliable dealer. You have them authenticated and slabbed... that is great. Move slowly and carefully...Let us know what you decide... Cheers, RickO
@brontobrat...that's a cool story...thanks for sharing...I'd bet your FIL purchased the coins from Stacks on West 57th Street...I lived in Manhattan thru the 80s and my recollection is that they were the biggest retail dealer in the city at that time...in fact a knowledgable dealer like Doug who has been around could probably look at the old coin flips or envelopes and tell you for sure...your FIL might have won the coins in one of their old mail bid auctions...
In terms of selling, any dealer is going to want to see the coins in hand...one option is to go to one of the major national shows (a list is on the PCGS web site) and meet the dealer or dealers in person...
In terms of historical pricing...Heritage Auctions (ha.com) allows you to research specific coins by date...with pricing back thru the early 90s...
You could look and PCGS auction prices realized. It is a tremendous resource for prices of coins.
I would get whatever dealer you choose to submit them to CAC, pay the for their service, then keep them unless you really need the money for something important. You can always check the auction records on COINFACTS to get a current value. Note that CAC approval will bring a large premium vs. Non-CAC..
5 points is only one increment and it really depends on luster which I haven’t seen. I will say flat spots typically correlate to 40 vs 45 unless unequivocally strike issues with ample luster.
It isn’t so much pcgs is wrong more as JA is tough especially on gold
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Wow, those coins are amazing.