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Rattler / Fatty > Gradation > Cross > CAC ? How $$$ ?
Paradisefound
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I noticed a few consensus amongst the experts regarding the well known promise of the so called under graded coins in old holders. @Wabbit2313 submission result proves this is no longer true in some cases.
I am planning to snipe this common date as an addition to my date set and I think this one will CAC therefore preserves the old slab / label. I see it as a + and a Gold CAC material 
What do you think reasonable premium is or should I bid up to the promised potential ?
1
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I'm not feeling it on that one. I wouldn't pay a premium if it was me. Good luck.
close ups
Maybe it is my tablet but the fields look cloudy above Ms. Liberty on the obverse. Puttied? Either way, CAC won't like the hit on the knee. I say pass.
Have always been concerned with hairlines or cabinet friction on coins in rattler holders. Any worries ?
I adjusted the color on it. It looks like it has been puttied.
What does it mean puttied ?
It's a cute coin but I wouldn't pay more than its worth for a small upgrade and CAC.
Edit: Problems posting sorry.
Currently @ $1477
It's a substance applied to the surface of the coin to hide marks in hopes of getting a higher grade.
Over time the substance can turn cloudy.
Edit to add a link to an old thread.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/860427/what-happened-to-this-pcgs-ms63-10-indian-coin-doctoring-putty/p1
A very nice coin it's your $$$ and you never know. But I would just keep it like it is and save the $$$. Look at it this way if you ever put it up for sale some one will think it may rec a gold CAC. But if it's already done and has a green CAC no hope for a bid war, That's just me dumb Type2 thinking.
Hoard the keys.
How could TPG missed it?
Nice clean coin with very few bag marks. May not have enough luster to CAC. Solid 65 I think, and the price is pretty good for a 65. Maybe use gold's recent price drop to haggle.
When the substance is first applied, it is not that noticeable with the naked eye. Over time it starts to turn cloudy.
This coin probably looked nice back in the late 1980's when it was graded.
Putty is like car wax. When it is applied it is transparent and can help hide chatter in fields and smaller hits. Over time (after it has been graded) it can change and become opaque. I looked at this on eBay and it was my opinion it had putty. Putty can be removed but that would require cracking it out and that is not what you want
My first thought was puttied also. The luster and color of the coin are "off" from what a Gem St. Gaudens G$20 should look like.
I have been burned by putty. When I buy gold I try to get it with CAC already. I am not good enough to tell on my own if a gold coin has been messed with.
I don't like it and the holder might have been pryed open and the coin swapped. You can see this on Rattlers when the edges turn white from the stress of the vice. (Not to mention some of the inside prong material is now resting on the reverse of the coin)
I once posted here an Ebay link to a $10 Gold Indian in a High grade OGH. It had so much putty, that the coin looked like it had a disease. PCGS actually contacted the Ebay seller and offered to buy it back as part of the guarantee.
My take on the Saint: Looks like a possible 66 but the images make the coin look a bit suspect.
Update: I found the old link on the puttied Indian:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/860427/what-happened-to-this-pcgs-ms63-10-indian-coin-doctoring-putty
When I first posted, I didn't see the close-ups. The close-ups confirm my initial suspicion. Run. You could send this in under the guarantee to have the putty removed with acetone, but there is no upside in doing so. You will lose the rattler holder and PCGS will give you a wholesale bid. Even sans putty, the hits on the knee and others in prime focal areas make me think it would still be a CAC reject. Too much effort and risk...
Pass.
Most of the under graded Rattlers have been crossed-over already. The stereotype of Rattlers and OGH has been played out.
+1
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There are certainly many fewer under-graded rattlers and OGHs that in the past, but occasionally you will still find one in a major auction.
I posted an example of an 1862 $20 PCGS AU50 in an OGH that sold in a Heritage (2016 September Long Beach) action for $18,800. About 1 year later, the same coin was again sold by Heritage (2017 August ANA auction) as a PCGS AU58 for $30,550.
Link
Not a chance with cac, with average success rates on MS65 Saints around 5%. On the putty problem, etc., there are lots of coins with stuff like that which conserve fine, even upgrade. Lots of idiots were using bondo etc, without good reason.
Swaddled gold is better than swatted silver. I'll just leave it at that.
This coin would never green sticker let alone gold sticker
@Paradisefound what makes you think that it would? Just trying to help your learning curve
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
...I don't know gold pretty much at all but with the close-ups the coin barely looks real to me...I mean does Lady Liberty normally look like she went 15 rounds with Apollo Creed on these things? I wish you Luck and with the help of some of the board's gold experts here, you shouldn't really need any
Color just isn't there and too many hits.
Be patient and get one that you'll be proud of.
Definitely looks as if it has been puttied.... sometimes it will show under ultraviolet light... I know you do not have the coin in hand, and based on the pictures, you should probably pass. Cheers, RickO
Yes, I think that there is a chance that this rattle holder may have had a difference coin in it when it left PCGS.
@3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said: "...I mean does Lady Liberty normally look like she went 15 rounds with Apollo Creed on these things?"
Keep things in perspective. She may have been in the ring with Apollo but he didn't hit her very much as she's a 65! Now if the color makes her look bruised to you, then I can understand your post.
@Bullsitter said: "Color just isn't there and too many hits."
Ditto. At one time these coins were sought after for their "original skin." The surface is 100% altered; yet it is still an attractive coin to me - and at one time to our host and every dealer/collector who owned it.
... @Insider2 not talking about hits or color here...her nose looks like it begins at the cerebral cortex and appears like it was beaten for half a day with a sack of war nickels???
I'd pass on this one.
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Cannot magnify, I think it is the lighting.
+1
I personally would pass on this coin. Too many hits and terrible color.
Edited to add: @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD I see what you are saying about the face. It looks like she was in a boxing match.
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i thought the luster is above average....and I think my standard needs to be tighten on judging for CAC
Yes, it did concern me. That's I cracked out the 1901 $10 gold I posted on another thread a few days ago.
If you want a CAC sticker on your coin...personally I'd recommend buying a coin thats already been approved...
I passed on this....and now I know how to identify that would be puttied coin. Thank you ALL for your time.