At what point do you consider you are a person who "Knows How to Grade Coins"?
59Horsehide
Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
I read a lot of good advice given to new collectors stating "you must learn how to grade coins". I know the process can be very subjective. How will I know when I have, more or less, learned how to properly grade coins? Really interested in what everyone thinks or has to add about this question and if you think you have reached that point.
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For me, probably never. I'm in the ballpark with the series I collect. That's good enough. It's a talent. Some have it most don't. Like throwing a dropping curveball. You can or you can't.
You need to feel comfortable with the grade you assign a coin. If you send ten coins in and guess what grade you will get sometimes you will be right and sometimes you won't be, and not understand why. I know how to grade coins. Now weather or not I'm always agreed with is a different story. Grading is extreamly subjective
HAPPY COLLECTING
Buy some coins that you think you know the grade. Write it down, send them to PCGS and see if they agree with you. If you get a high level of rejection or are way off on the grades, you're not ready.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
The difficulty:
To be "A guy who can grade coins", it kind of assumes it is someone who can grade ALL coins. I think there are many here who can grade their favorite series, or two, or three with very good authority. But the ability to grade ANY coin....mint state through AG....all die states and date variations.....identify alterations, cleaning, and fakes.....without reference materials and grading guides? Precious few qualify....
I feel that it's so much easier to learn coin grading today. The resources are out there, just on the internet for example...You can attend shows and look at hundreds, if not more, graded coins.....It still takes time to cultivate an'eye', but it's out there.
Back in the day, you learned grading by whether or not you made money, period.....You bought the raw coin (because that's all there were), then you tried to sell the coin for more money. If you were successful, your grading was probably accurate, if not successful, back to the drawing board.
I really have to say, much easier today......
Tough to say. I’m pretty good on a few series on straight grading. However, on expertly doctored coins? I feel like I could miss something there
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Ditto. I still prefer the expert opinions of a few trusted dealers. I know what I know and I know what I don't.
Latin American Collection
I would agree with most of the guys who have posted so far.
I listened to the advice of what I thought were smart collectors/dealers and viewed a lot of NGC/PCGS/ANACS graded coins to get an idea of uncirculated grades. it was suggested I buy a copy of "PhotpGrade" for grades up to MS60. armed with that I just looked at as many coins as I could in shops and at shows, the idea being that I was attempting to learn before I spent money. after that I needed to "pay some tuition" and submit coins to see what I had learned.
the process is a continuing one as all we can do is study, learn and progress at our own pace with the types of Numismatic items that we are interested in.
I posted the thread below a long time ago with some ideas to help a newcomer.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/466793/10-suggestions-which-might-help-someone-whos-new-for-boosibri/p1
I know these are the PCGS boards and no disrespect to them, but I think grading is overrated. Having a good eye for originality and eye appeal is more important. And more important than knowing how to grade would be knowing how others grade.
And my meaning how to grade coins for me if knowing what PCGS is looking for
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Whoops wrong thread
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I like this answer!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Grading is subjective. I try to be objective. Sometimes, the two clash. But mostly I am satisfied.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I think knowing what the price guide say for a certain grade makes a difference too. Populations are at play as well. If your coin has a 150 in 64 and say 5 in 65 with a huge price jump in value, then the coin is likely a 4. There its a guarantee after all and money on the line. I think the grading companies are assigning value when they assign a grade. The question sometimes comes into play as how they can stand behind a certain value without making excuses for the coin. I think they also know that if they grade it low it will be coming back for review anyway.
I would think that there is standard grading that people get a handle on pretty quick and then there is a 3rd party grading game that adds a whole new level of nuance to the situation and that can take some time to learn.
As far as at what point, that is entirely dependent to the astuteness of the person and how immersed they have become in the hobby. A casual collector may never get a handle on it and someone who plugs in and sees a lot of coins could get it in no time at all.
I knew that I knew how to grade about 5 years before I actually did.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I enjoy guessing the grade here on this forum... how ever.... I must say a professional coin grader I am not.
I hesitate to call myself an expert but I feel I'm a fairly competent grader in the field that I collect which is US gold coins. I've taken the ANA grading course and the ANA counterfeit detection course. I've examined and studied tens of thousands of coins graded by the top tier grading services which is quite educational and something that I recommend. I have several grading books and several counterfeit detection book which I've studied. I've witnessed grading standards slowly loosen over the past several decades of serious collecting. I was collecting long before third party grading came along and I remember both grading standards in common use by dealers---one standard when buying coins and another standard for selling coins. It's no wonder that third party grading became popular with collectors. I'm at the point now where I'll buy a raw US gold coin without hesitation assuming it's something I want..
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A professional grader I am not, too, and may never be, especially above MS60. For me, even getting to adequacy in the lower grades was a gradual process, depending on the series. Example: years ago when I was much younger, I collected a set of Standing Liberty Quarters, and I graded some of them at the time, then put them away in a safe deposit box for eons. My 1921 I figured to be a high VF, the 1923-S an XF45 or AU 50. When I recently looked them over, I told myself that maybe I should send them to ANACS. The 1921 came back XF45, and the 1923-S graded AU58, so I was astounded at how badly I had undergraded them.
While I like to think I can grade....some assigned grades have me scratching my head all the time!
Grading coins is a subjective exercise that results in an opinion. Even TPG's with several graders and a finalizer, produce a consensus opinion. This is because there are no standards. Until standards are defined, we will grade by consensus. True, that the general grades that we live with, have developed fuzzy boundaries. That being said, the boundaries also have a tendency to move (i.e. gradeflation). Having come from a profession that demanded standards - defined and documented - I find it humorous to watch the debate over grades that we see here daily. It will continue..... Cheers, RickO
I've been learning/studying coin grading for a long time. I even devised a very simple system in the 1970's (Technical Grading) to teach, use, and ID coins. It was simple to apply and not subject to change over time or outside influences. Grade the coin based on only its condition of preservation from how it left the dies. Let the dealers determine its value.
Unfortunately, I'll NEVER learn to grade a coin "commercially" because I'll NEVER learn what a specific date/mint/type of coin is WORTH on the commercial market.
When I can read the label.
In theory, a coin's value should never be a grading factor.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You have to test your grading skills. This can be done by submitting your raw coins to a TPG, grading coins on coin forum. grading contest live and/or coin forum. In today's market you should also know how to grade from photo. Once you have confidence in you grading ability and have demonstrated the skill. You can call yourself someone who knows how to grade.
i can get pretty close to it but its not perfect. if the other party and myself cant come to a mutual grade then i pass.
At NO point have I ever considered myself an expert. I usually undergrade.
But what I believe about myself is that I have a little more experience at it than the average Joe (or Joette).
Pete
Interesting thread. Because of the subjective nature of grading and the wild variety of designs and denominations in the U.S series alone (I'm Canadian, so grading those coins is a different ball game), it is impossible to become fully proficient at grading all coins. There are some series where I'm comfortable, some less so, some not at all. Sometimes I'm more familiar with Mint State grades, sometimes with circulated grades. The key is to look at thousands and thousands of TPG-graded coins. And take solace in the fact that the best of the best can disagree with TPG graders and with each other.
Dealing in Canadian and American coins and historical medals.
There IS no way to know if you can grade coins.
You SUBMIT and hope.
This gets silly doesn't it?
In a galaxy, far, far away.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
When you are comfortable cracking out an expensive coin that you know is under-graded or needs some conservation. I passed that mile marker long ago. I am not always right, but I am also not always wrong!
Agreed. On the other hand, a coin's rarity can justifiably impact the likelihood that a coin with minor problems with get a numeric grade. (For example, an 1804 $1 with a tiny countermark, or a moderately cleaned 1802 Half Dime.)
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
when?
Sometime in the future.
Remember, I started when uncirculated coins were graded: Unc, choice BU and Gem BU.
Circs are far easier
BHNC #203
Not to sound too smug, but for me it started when I was in my mid 20s when much older collectors came asking me to grade their coins. I can screw up, just like everyone else. I needed to learn more about the various tricks coin doctors use to "enhance" coins. After I learned the basics of applying the circulated grades, and really learned to look at coins with a more critical eye, greater expertise followed.
I would say to those who call me a dinosaur because I wouldn't buckle under to the "new standards," where rarity and key date status play a major role in determining the grade, it is you who have a problem. If rarity plays a major role in determining the grade, you have no grading standards. All you have is a slippery slope that will lead to the same grading abuses that created the marketing situation which ushered in third party grading. If that happens, then we will have gone full circle from where we where when PCGS was formed in the mid 1980s.
I know how to grade coins, just not how to do it well. As a collector who has competing interests I won't see enough coins to become a proficient grader. I am proficient at knowing what I find attractive, interesting and worth owning,
I feel fairly competent as a grader but would not bet big money on it.
Regardless the TPG has the final say anayway.
Not in total. Actually the dealers and the collectors have the final say. There are coins out there that are so inaccurately graded that they only trade at deep discounts among dealers and often to collectors who “know the score.”
Dealers have called such pieces “plutonium slabs” because breaking them out of their holders would be very toxic to your financial health.
Yes, the TPGs do have a lot of influence, but really low down “dreck” (unattractive, clearly over graded coins), does not sell well unless there are deep discounts below the grade on the slab.
I knew how to grade coins until the TPGs came along with their damn numbers. Started grading using the 1961 edition of the Brown book . . . A VF Buffalo has to have a full horn ! ! !
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
@PerryHall said: "In theory, a coin's value should never be a grading factor."
AMEN, you are preaching to the choir! That's the way it was in the "Technical" system.
However, theory and practice are very often two different things. In spite of the fact that the "technical" grading system (grade the coin, describe its characteristics) has been revived on the QT by every major TPGS for problem coins, everyone should know and be able to admit that a coin's value affects its grade. Hint: When I ask folks why we need grading virtually all of them say "to put a value on a coin."
Why do you pay high prices for better date and rare coins? The answer is because they are rarer. The other part of this, grade the piece properly are charge more. That's the way to be fair about it.
It also depends on whether you are grading circulated or uncirculated coins. Pictures and Photograde will help with circs, but experience and practice are manditory for uncs.
Well, I guess I should have known better than to use the word Everyone in my post. There are always a few exceptions.
LOL, some folks
mistakenly think the world is fair too,
Even if one thinks they have any skill in grading a coin, you will always have another who will tell you otherwise.
Its an ongoing process and I think that those who have equipment will always have the edge.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
No matter how good you are or how good you think you are at grading, one knows they know how to grade when they know when to seek help or a second opinion.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I don't think I will ever learn to grade coins in my lifetime.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
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All Gem BU MS65 coins and higher grades must be fully struck with all the details the sculptor intended in his works. I'll accept a rarer date coin with a slightly less than full strike to be graded MS65 as long as there is something exceptional about the eye appeal; such as toning, proof-like fields, an EDS strike.
And I understand some series especially a few of the classics, the mints had problems with maintaining the strike. But nonetheless if fully struck examples exist, they are usually highly sought after collector coins.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection