What would you offer?
savitale
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Coin sold at Heritage auction last year for $2500. Nice coin, key date, but not super-rare. Dealer is now asking $3500. Same coin, same cert number. What would you offer?
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Door number one or door number two; which would you choose?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I'd check price guides first and see more history. What's the PCGS price guide say?
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@savitale
I depend if the asking price is in line with all the factor that is important to you.
I see one of my "want" coins sold at HA this last Feb for $2250 + fee/comm and noticed the same one offered by the buyer for $2850. I would not buy it in my case no matter how bad I want it and I refuse to make a fool of myself
Will wait & exercise patience for a better one
Is $3500 fair? What do they sell for now? I feel like a $1k (40%) markup is pretty steep but I guess it depends on the market for the coin.
Collector, occasional seller
.....And, do you tell them, "I know what you paid for it."
Or is that just bad form.
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Current owner had to pay buyer fees. He monetarily and physically did the legwork to snag it. How rare is it? If you want it and it's either a potential upgrade or a little money in it, I don't see why you shouldn't pick it up. If you have any doubts and a better one will come along, I'd pass.
There are a lot of assumptions so far in this thread, chief among them the assumption that the dealer currently listing the coin is the one that purchased it out of the HA sale. Given the info in the OP, we have no idea if that is the case. Therefore, we have no idea if the dealer paid $2,500 (plus all the time, expertise and energy to review and win the lot) or if the dealer paid $3,200 or even if the dealer paid $2,300.
We also don't know if the coin "slipped between the cracks" because of a poor image, an internet only sale or some other reason. Additionally, we don't know if the market for the issue has moved, we don't know the spread between grades or even if someone believes it is an upgrade candidate. Lastly, what it sold for previously does not dictate what it is worth today.
These are all reasons why I worded my first response in the manner that it appears. The question, as formulated by the OP, is lacking so many details that all the assumptions needed to answer it make the answers largely irrelevant.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Now, to more directly answer your question......if dealing direct, and IF the $2500 was AFTER ALL COSTS for the auction, then I would offer ~$3000.....IF $3000 were a fair deal for that coin (you don't mention what it is and what grade/holder/cac so it is hard to say as some key dates are below price guide....also, is it toned or something special about it?).
A $1000 markup is a 40% markup on that one coin. If they did others, and marked them up similar, and they sell quickly, dealer is making out pretty good. Again, a lot depends on other factors and, if the dealer you are now talking about purchased it recently, they may have paid above that $2500.....how much? We may never HONESTLY know....
Finally, what do SIMILAR/COMPARABLE coins go for? Any that sold for the same date/grade (ie....almost exact same)? Where is that pricing sitting at?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
"not super rare" ... why be generous? Why offer at all?
Ask dealer to put a green or gold sticker on the slab, then you can up the offer to $4k lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
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I would offer what I was willing to pay.
I bought a coin for 320% of what someone paid at Heritage within last year (I wish I saw it during original auction)
I am considering a coin for 92% of what someone paid at Heritage within last year (but still think too high)
Why does it matter what it 'sold for at auction'? if you were bidding then, it would have sold for higher if you are considering buying now.
It's a fair question ... but one that needs greater context to be answered with any hope of being helpful to you.
What the coin sold for last year is less relevant that what the current market value for the coin is today.
Without knowing the coin, it's just a blind guess as to whether or not $3500 is fair.
What if the Heritage price realized of $2500 from last year was for a coin whose 'real value' last year was $4000 and the buyer 'ripped' the coin?
What if the current $3500 price is for a coin that others are offering for $5000? Or $2000?
Just using 'last year's price' as a guide can be costly both in overpaying and missing an opportunity to purchase.
To be direct, what somebody paid for the coin in the past is not very relevant to a transaction today.
Let's say as a collector you cherrypicked popular coin, valued at $5000, for the bargain price of $500. If you offered it for sale, would you expect offers more closely aligned with the market value or your purchase price?
Let's say as a collector you overpaid for a popular coin, valued at $5000, and paid $10,000. If you offered it for sale, would you expect offers more closely aligned with the market value or your purchase price?
Good luck with your purchase!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Past price is not an issue, nor what the dealer paid for it. What is your value for the coin, that is all that matters. I recommend a study of the auction records for the coin to place a value on it compared to its brethren.
Best, SH
It all depends on the coin itself and what your gut tells you as you view it. You can stand on your soap box and complain that the asking price is high and dealers should only make a marginal percentage while spending tens of thousands a year on show travel and table fees only eating mustard packets on saltine crackers while hunting down nice inventory.
For example yesterday HLRC had a key date 1919-D 25C PCGS AU55FH in their new inventory email. The asking price was $3500 which to someone unfamiliar with the series might seem aggressive. Quickly with one sock off doing the math that’s like 25%+ over the $2750 PCGS value... Gosh how dare Harry ask so much!?!
Now onto the coin itself although AU55 is a tad bit more rub than I personally like this SLQ had extremely wholesome original surfaces and was eye appealing on both the obverse and reverse without a single discriminating eye detracting mark. The full head details also meet my standards of what’s needed not a TPG service.
It was a coin that instantly grabbed my attention seeing it on my phone and I jumped to his site to see it. At his asking price I figured it would still be available to view on desktop PC for many days to come. It was sold before I got home last night and vanished off the site. Why… Because someone else saw everything in that coin I did. The price was irrelevant compared to the quality and the patience needed spending years trying to stumble across another it’s equal.
I really wish I had a chance last night to view a larger reverse image as this was one the of the nicest CH AU SLQ’s I’ve seen in a holder since the non pronged era.
How do you know they were who purchased it in the auction? I have purchased coins that were auctioned before I bought them! Many auction coins end up in vest pocket dealer inventories.
To answer some of the questions, without giving away the actual coin:
Auction records are close to $2500
I consider "last year" to be equivalent to "current pricing" for this coin, this isn't bullion or MS64 Morgans that fluctuate daily on electronic exchanges. Prices for this series haven't moved appreciably in years.
Let's put it another way: what if you just missed a coin that sold yesterday at Heritage for $2500 (including buyer's fee). By all accounts $2500 is a fair price for the coin, maybe this one is a little PQ. It is a nice coin and you would have bid on it, probably up to $2800. Today you see the same coin on a dealer website for $3500. What would you offer? Would you offer at all, or is the spread between your happy number ($2800) and their asking number ($3500) too great?
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Reading through this thread makes me extremely happy that I do not sell coins.... and I only buy coins that I really like and fit my 'disposable income' criteria (which is secondary to my firearm acquisition budget). Cheers, RickO
This thread is thought provoking, but I would offer the following. What someone sells or tries to sell a coin for is of limited consequence. What the buyer is willing to pay is paramount. The previous purchase price may not influence the seller at all with regards to the price they are attempting to sell the coin for. The auction price paid by someone may not even be the current owner of the coin
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It makes no difference what the seller paid, buy the coin not its pricing history.
If I had watched Antique Roadshow what am I to offer on the $400K table that someone bought for $14 at a garage sale? 20-30-40% over his cost?
I think it's a disadvantage to know what the coin brought at auction. It takes your focus off of evaluating the coin at current price.
I've also learned that some of my best buys were the times that I paid a preminum or what can say overpaid.
In 2010 it did not keep me from not paying $10,500 for a coin that seller won for $7200 just 3 months earlier. It was a poor market and realized things fell thru the cracks. Took less than 3-4 years to get back to its 20K market price.
Just evaluate the coin at what you think its worth, ie its current market price.
BLUF: What is it worth to you?
Make an offer which you feel that is worth to you. Worse case is that the seller declines the offer or does not respond at all.
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making 1,000 on one coin in one year is not where the market is. I might be lucky to make 1,000 selling coins for a whole year
There are not enough specific information here to make any comment at all. Just because the dealer wants $1,000 more than the auction result does not mean he's wrong. Sometimes coins sell at bargain levels in auctions, even Heritage Auctions.
As is sometimes said here, knowledge is POWER, esp. if you know the series and its pricing. In your opinion is it worth the $1000 more that it was sold for the last time?
From my perspective auction results are essentially retail at that point in time for frequently traded coins. Those results establish what it's worth to the public. What it's worth to you is a different question.
If this grade of coin commonly sells in the $2500 range at public auctions my belief is paying more than $2500 is overpaying. (Overpaying isn't necessarily a bad think if you really want it).
Why no specs? All I can gather is he seems have price right about 40 pct Markup which is basically minimal make it in the industry. Not sure room for him discount.
Without specs impossible answer.
Where is price relative to CPG. CW Trends, TPG MV. Is his only one in the room? If so your blowing in the wind try talk down. If they think auc price is god go buy at auction is what I have told a lot of them.
I bought a coin at a yard sale for .50 and it turned out to be worth 2,300. So when I go to sell it. I will be fair and list it for .55.
Best place to buy !
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Only market that the buyer thinks wholesale should be retail.
Well, who can reason with a... GUN NUT?
Are you saying that a Heritage, or Stacks, or Legend... auction is wholesale?
I haven’t read the all the reply’s but IMHO the only answer is you should only pay what YOU think the coin is worth. It has ZERO to do with the owner of the coin paid. Zilch
m
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I usually will offer what I will pay for it. I reach this number by asking myself, is the coin worth it? How bad do I want this coin? Can I get a better one or equal to it somewhere else if I wait? How often do these come up for sale? How bad do I want this coin (yes again). Lol
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Remember Heritage buyers premium is 20%. So add 20% to the$2500 right away. Dealer actually paid $3000.
In my opinion you are overthinking it. Too me it all comes down to what you want to pay, period. No body here can tell you what to pay. I've bought only a few coins and I've overpaid on most of them; not because of the grade or some sticker that was on it, but because I liked it and that to me is the reason for collecting something.
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Heritage sales are reported with the buyers fee in them.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Did not know that.
There's a coin on GC that sold on 3/18/18 for $7038 with premium. The same coin is back with a starting bid of $8000. I don't know what to make of this.
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I would check previous auction records, decide if I think the coin is really PQ for the grade and issue and then pay and or/offer accordingly. I have paid double sheet for coins that I thought were real moose.
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You can always buy cheap, and sometimes buy good - but rarely good and cheap.
Unless the coin is so thinly traded that you can't determine a range on quality coins of it's type, you should do so. If the coin is quality within the reasonable price range and you want it, make a reasonable offer. Asking 10% off is normally a good starting point.
Finally, any dealer to whom you tell "I know that the coin sold at so-and-so X years ago for Y" will tell you "Then YOU shoulda bought it then", at least if he/ she has any cojones.
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After looking for a nice Barber Half in MS 65 for four years, I bought a really nice 05 0 from Brandon Kelley. It was easy to find doing an archive search. Not may PC 05 0s around, and especially not with this attractive toning. The coin was auctioned at Heritage a year earlier, and with the juice, it was marked up 25% from the purchase price.
After looking at so many really ugly MS 65 Barber Halves, this one talked to me, and was worth the money. I think many need to be more selective about what we buy. If a coin doesn't grab your attention, pass. Unless you're one of the few at the deep end of the pool, another one will turn up soon enough.
The flip side of this is how concerned are you being buried in an attractive coin by paying far to much for it. Again, unless you're in the deep end of the pool, this isn't necessary, either.
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I must admit, I had no idea that there were coins made of moose.
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Seems a bit harsh. The buyer may not have been aware that the coin was being sold at that time. Or may not have been in the market for the coin at that time. I would not consider it appropriate behavior for a dealer to insult someone for researching the sales record of a coin.
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A 'moose' is a trade terminology like a 'monster' meaning a real high-end coin.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
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Of course it's harsh. There's no crying in numismatics.
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