Why can't our host come up with similar "CAC" approval in addition to their + system?
Paradisefound
Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
If other experts can opine on certain eye appeal & exercise their calls to "CAC"; why can't our host extend the same service for additional fee and have it all incorporated onto a single label along with the + system?
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So you want PCGS to say they did or didn't screw up the grade the 1st time they looked at it?
Don't think that will happen.
They have reconsideration service.
I think PCGS fees are high enough, plus who would want a sticker saying that PCGS trusts PCGS...wouldn't every freshly graded coin then have a sticker?
Later, Paul.
Why don't foxes make good hen house guards?
This
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I did not see it this way
I kinda sorta think they already put their opinion on the insert. I suppose they could indicate somewhere if it’s a really good opinion or a really, really, really good opinion.
Duh to me....I got it now even after a few responses
Oh, how about we just do a ++, +-, -+ and a -/-? Give it time, I'll happen.
Not trying to make fun of the OP BUT,,,,,,
I just got my submission back from PCGS for newly graded coins but no sticker so I am on the phone to customer service asking WTH is going on? You just graded my coins but they didn't sticker so you are saying you don't agree with the grade you just gave them????
Same thing for looking at previously graded coins.
The cac acceptance has a $$$ sign behind it usually. With the grading services you have a professional judgment/opinion; there is a big difference between those things.
I'd like to see a numismatic entity with $10 million or more to "approve" coins in other holders, not just P/N. If Anacs, ICG, etc. had a stickering service, then buyers would have a lot more confidence.
KUDOS to Paradisefound for having a good sense of humor
Indeed
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I don't think that would work out so well. Grading your own graders?
OTOH, it could take them so long to get it done, by the time they get it back to you, a common coin could have become a rare one.
In paradise, no stickers are needed (or wanted.)
not much of anything else...
Isn't it like grade school... A+, A, A-... PCGS could extend the + grading to more coins and add a "-" for low end coins.
Latin American Collection
They should do the whole label section as a small LCD screen that plays a warm fluffy video of unicorns, butterflies, and humming birds dancing under a rainbow as you admire the grade. LCD is now cheap technology and after a decade of collectors more focused with what's happening above the coin on a slab it's a valid next step
I collect stickers not coins. The more stickers the better, thanks
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Our host grades, CAC trades.
Do not conflate PCGS activities with David Hall Rare Coins, which trades but (IIRC), based on the CU "Chinese Wall", sends no coins in for grading except for customers.
ARGH!!!
How about a bit of a twist... Maybe a PCGS sticker that can be applied to an NGC slab, such as an old NGC No Line Fatty with a PCGS sticker. It would signify that it would cross at grade, but you get to keep the old holder. Then you could still submit to CAC.
Okay who is going to make a self grading kit with PCGS label's and CAC stickers. Then we can put any grade we want. I don't get it we send in a coin they give us a grade then we don't like it or just want to make sure they got it right so we pay a fee to another Co to make sure they got it right then we are happy we got a sticker saying they got it right, We are sick.
Hoard the keys.
....and then what happen if CAC-ing fades away? Another sticker on top of CAC? Where is @Acop?
That would be like the Department of Justice investigating itself. Oh, wait...
You better come in. The sun is getting to you.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
@Paradisefound .....Now that lends an entire different meaning to the word 'stick er'....
Cheers, RickO
I just want to be a part of this thread.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
It's amazing how so many backers of CAC don't even understand CAC. Yet drink the Kool Aid because everyone else does.
It has been clearly defined that CAC determines whether a coin is an A/B or a C coin. In no way does that infer that PCGS/NGC screwed up in their assessment. PCGS could very well have properly graded a coin but its a C coin in that grade and it receives no sticker. As such the OPs question becomes why dont the TPS add an A B C element to the technical grade as CAC is doing.
The gold sticker is the expection that implies a wrong grade was given. But often times these gold stickers appear on older slabs where different grading standards existed. The TPGs could easily ad in a gold sticker and say by current standards that coin would now upgrade. You could call it a mistake, but if they are willing to gold the stickers then its no different than a resubmission and getting a higher grade.
I am fully aware of what a CAC sticker means.
For PCGS to sticker coins they grade would be foolish!
Nearly every kid in my 3rd grade class passed and moved on to the fourth grade. Several got stars on their foreheads. They looked kind of silly, at the end of the day. Now they're rich doctors and lawyers.
Beyond upperclassmen.
Several guys i went into the military with got through basic training. There are many who could not deal with the rigors. Lots of them who did earned stripes and stars.
And at the top there is the brass.
They best do their best. The cream rises to the top.
Coins are kinda like this.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Just a little grading reminder for ALL of us posting here: The OBVERSE is the most important side!
Now another side to the OP's question. Within a few weeks of being hired as a grader, I proposed to the owner that they have a new gold label repaired for outstanding, 100% original coins that actually had no trace of wear (the old standards of the 1970's). Something that I did not take into account with my "great" idea was quickly explained. If some coins were given "my" special distinction it would unnecessarily appear to cheapen the value and quality of all the other coins the company graded.
Hummm, isn't that sort of what has occurred with the CAC bean.
Fantasy rant: In an ideal world with the simple and tough technical grading system (used at INS) that did not evolve over time and market condition as it was divorced from a coins "value," there would be no need for extraneous stickers. There was no wiggle room. Grade the coin ONLY based on its condition of preservation. Let the dealers put the value on the coin. Two "perfect" coins would have different values: The MS-70 would be worth more than the MS-70, weak strike.
i love that scene
Its the JD Power award. Kind of like Wells Fargo saying they are going to monitor themselves and today is day one. Oh wait that wont work. I do agree that they would look nicer.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I agree that it may not make sense for PCGS to do so. Certainly not a sticker at least. However if in fact you and others understand that CAC is saying A/B or C then your post about a TPG contradicting itself makes no sense. They already do it with the + sign. The + sign is an A coin plain and simple. Do you feel the + contradicts the TPG grade in some way? Certainly not looking like a full understanding is happening.
But in the real world it's not perfect, In some cases they just got lucky. I for one don't need some sticker to tell me that's a nicer coin or that's a brighter star a nicer car. This is the big problem some collector are lazy or just don't care and don't want to do the work. That's why it's so E.Z for me to cherry pick.
It's not just verities like DDO, DDR, Vam, RPM, MPD, and so on but grades as well I'll by AU-58 if they are nice and almost every time it comes back MS63 or 4 I see it all the time every one needs to look hard and they will see if it's a up graded or not, get out there and use your heads if it's a MS64 and you don't see it going up a point it will never go up a point then just pass but if it's a MS64 and looks MS65 or higher buy it. I'm sorry I see a lot of CAC that get it wrong as well that can be cracked out and upgraded, No one is perfect......I'm proof of that.
Hoard the keys.
Then they should of called them selves "ABC" stickers now if they are that good why didn't they start up a new grading co. I know why but this is all dumb. MS69+ A-B-C-D-E-F-G Let's just do Nice, Nicer, Nicest then some one will do Good, better, Best. MS65.1, MS65.2, MS65.3 MS65.4 and so on It can go on for ever till we all learn this is CRAP it's all about the money they can take from us the collector cut and dry.
Hoard the keys.
@jtlee321 said:
They could charge full price and except the coins from the guarantee (since it wouldn't be in PCGS plastic and the coin not examined raw). I'm sure PCGS would love the extra revenue.
She's toned Ricko. Youll have to dip her first.
Just adding a -minus to the system solves the debate. + A coin B coin no symbol C coin -
Same idea, 1 less sticker. Again I think PF's post was coming at it from the sticker side. But the principle is already there when they added the + they should have added the - .
There were plenty of threads about it when it happened.
shouldn't the question be why doesn't CAC grade coins??
That's what I'm talking about! Give me a coin in a cac slab and add a pcgs sticker. It would be like the most bestest coin ever. lulz
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
It has been proposed over the years that grades should be in decimal form. That would give the same results as having PCGS sticker their own grade but without the downside. A sticker would imply the grade was "solid" or was not. The decimal grade would imply simply that the coin was low, middle or high end for the grade.
Say an MS65 coin graded 65.1 to 65.3 would be low grade. A grade of 65.4 to 65.7 would be middle or average grade and a grade of 65.8 to 65.9 would be high end.
All that is holding this idea back, is for the TPGs and dealers to find a way to monetize it.
@coinhack said: "All that is holding this idea back, is for the TPGs and dealers to find a way to monetize it."
That is not a problem. As soon as ""they" did it, coins would flow in for the new grade and plenty of folks would grumble. LOL.
I have no way to tell if this is true but I have heard that grading may be done like that already but only for internal use to help the finalizer. If true, I don't know how it could be kept secret for so long. If true, perhaps practice or trial for the future? Plenty of folks say the 0 -70 system will be changed eventually.
0-70 is more than sufficient, do we really need XX.1-XX.9? Besides if these gurus are spending a mere 6 seconds per coin in the grading room they may as well blindfold themselves and throw darts at the grading board. Thanks
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
I would be against it and I doubt any business (especially a TPG) would want another organization interfering.
CAC is a very small element of certified coins / numismatics and applies to US Vintage coins only not mods, world, or currency.
Grading is subjective especially in coins borderline inbetween grades. Some prefer brilliant others toned. Often in selling on the bourse it comes down to the opinion of the buyer in filling the slot.
PCGS provides my business with graded material. I don’t want the CAC element interfering with this process.
The role af a TPG is grading coins. I don’t want CAC interfering with PCGS (not that our hosts would let them) or disrupting grading timeliness or my cost as this is cost my business must recover. Each organization has its own management and goals. If you want to pay money to CAC tell you what they think of your coins go far it, it’s your money. However this is money your spending which must be recovered in the markup equation or funds you may not be able to recover from an investment view especially in this market.
Let's play "guess the holder " Only catch is : you can only show the CAC sticker.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
That's hilarious
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown