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JohnnyCache
Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
JohnnyCache
Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
JohnnyCache
Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
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Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
I can match several contact marks linking coins but not one that is seen on all of them. Is it possible to image the reverses also? Thanks.
Great thread, very informative!
My YouTube Channel
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Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
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Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
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Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
The top two on the right (#2 & #3) have identical repeating marks both sides that I don't see on the others except the obverse of #4 matches #2. the defect on the left Mo links these. I should think all of the coins should have at least a few matching marks. Note: I am not saying any are genuine.
1 2 3
4 5
PS While adding more "evidence of circulation" (marks); anything done to remove something from a transfer die will usually show as a more obvious defect.
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Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
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Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
A discussion of these coins is presently running in this forum and in the world coin forum. Different info is in each thread. See: "Acquired a relatively humble (raw) Mexico 4 Reales coin, but can you tell what's unusual about it?" on the foreign forum.
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE MOVE THIS FOREIGN COIN TO THE PROPER FORUM? Me and the US guys can check it out over there as the OP and other posters are providing great info on C/F detection. It is hard to comment on the same thing in two places and keep things straight.
Many of us collect foreign coins that may have circulated in Colonial times, reales being the dominant coins for many years up to the Civil War.
Dear @oldabeintx,
I collect EVERY THING I CAN GET MY HANDS ON. You name something and I probably have some books on the subject and some examples. Even some Barbed wire somewhere!
That said, read my post again. @JohnnyCache has posted some Extremely EXCELLENT information and images. The methods of counterfeit detection apply across the board from ancients to modern Proofs from Iran.
I've learned from BOTH of his discussions and the comments of others. I've been posting in both discussions and as I wrote, there is valuable info in both! I wish they could be combined but having them where they belong is a good start.
The thread has been in the US Forum for awhile now. Anyone smart enough to read it and learn from it should be able to find it. I suggest any member here interested in counterfeit detection read it and give @JohnnyCash lots of "likes" for his post!
A Pillar 8 Reales is the first coin pictured in the Red Book (or at least was for a long time), so this is of interest to US collectors. A key takeaway of the comparison above is to realize that all peripheral elements were punched into the die individually, not from a hub. If letter spacing and things like the defect in the mint mark on all the coins pictured above are common across several dates, the you've identified a fake hub. This applies as well to early US coins.
Perhaps leave this thread in place but encourage people to follow this link to an interesting discussion, as many people here would otherwise not read the W&A forum.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Before you get too hot under the collar, you should realize these Spanish coins circulated extensively in what would be The Untied States and in the United States after the Revolutionary War. In fact the Spanish Milled Pillar Dollar, which has the same design as this piece, is pictured on page 11 of the 71st Edition of the "Red Book" under “Introduction to United States Coins.” In fact the Spanish Milled Dollar was legal tender in the U.S. until 1857.
A great many U.S. collectors take an interest Spanish Dollar fractional pieces after they have acquired the 8 reale coin. These 4 reale pieces are going to cost you upwards of $1,000 or more if you would like a nice one for your collection.
So, yes, the fact that a very deception counterfeit exits of this coin should be great interest to some U.S. collectors.
For those who would like to continue to follow this discussion, here is the new link:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/993367/acquired-a-relatively-humble-raw-mexico-4-reales-coin-but-can-you-tell-whats-unusual-about-it#latest
Certainly a Pillar dollar is more of a US coin than a Continental Dollar and most other colonials
Latin American Collection
Dear @BillJones,
It's too bad you didn't bother to read my post above before posting that I was "hot."
I collect EVERY THING I CAN GET MY HANDS ON. You name something and I probably have some books on the subject and some examples. Even some Barbed wire somewhere!
That said, read my post again. @JohnnyCache has posted some Extremely EXCELLENT information and images. The methods of counterfeit detection apply across the board from ancients to modern Proofs from Iran.
I've learned from BOTH of his discussions and the comments of others. I've been posting in both discussions and as I wrote, there is valuable info in both! I wish they could be combined but having them where they belong is a good start.
The thread has been in the US Forum for awhile now. Anyone smart enough to read it and learn from it should be able to find it. I suggest any member here interested in counterfeit detection read it and give @JohnnyCash lots of "likes" for his post!
BTW: just in case you are also not aware of another thing...the OP has combined the two different discussions.
As a counterfeit instructor, you may wish to look on the foreign forum and review some things you should already be teaching.
PS Thanks for adding to my
record! I think @JohnnyCache should get a "like" from you while you are busy pushing keys! 
PPS Perhaps you can post some U.S. counterfeits with repeating marks in this thread from you teaching collection.
Maybe you deserve all of the "disagrees" because of the way you state things. You DEMANDED that this string be moved to foreign coinage despite the fact that it has a lot to with what some U.S. collectors buy. I pointedly disagree with that. Counterfeits are a major concern, and and moving strings around because it does not meet your standards isn't going to fix that. It's only going to make it worse because the information will be buried in obscure areas where some people can't find it.
I made a post in answer to the opening post and then had no idea where the string was. I thought that it had been deleted. Unfortunately you can't trace where you posts go here when they get moved.
If this is considered "demanding," I plead guilty. I accentuate my posts with CAPS, bold, faces
, and color when available to make an easily understandable point. I have found there are different levels of - shall we say.... I also Self EDIT.
I also ask folks to back up their opinion or to post things for me. Hopefully, someone here will find some repeating marks on a pair of US coins. Wait! Anyone interested can go on VAM World and look up the 1896-"Micro O" dollars. Read the 2005 PCGS article with images of these marks.
These coins were first discovered to be counterfeit in the mid 1990's but that's a story for another time. 
Last weeks thread asks " Where is JohnnyCache"? This week he returns and we run him off?
Wow... now I have to check several different threads...etc., Oh well... when I find the Reale I want, I will come back. Cheers, RickO
He has condensed/combined all the information from two discussions into a single discussion in the
World Forum: "Acquired a relatively humble (raw) Mexico 4 Reales coin, but can you tell what's unusual about it?"
Great thread about counterfeit detection.