Why Dahlonega over C & O?
botanist
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Any logical explanation(s) for the seeming greater popularity of Dahlonega gold coins among collectors? Over those of the other two pre-Civil War southern mints?
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If it's just based on personal preference, it may be because D is a more "romantic" gold rush city. C and O are major metropolitan cities today while D is not as much so.
I have completed a type set of Dahlonega Coins and have been working on a Charlotte set for several years. The biggest problem I am having is the availability of Charlotte coins. Most of the coins I have seen are virtually worn out, have poor dull surfaces, or mint manufacturing problems. I have seen very few attractive coins worth exhibiting in a type set and those that I have seen cost a fortune.
Overland Trail Collection Showcase
Dahlonega Type Set-2008 PCGS Best Exhibited Set
Orleans is actually starting to catch up to Dahlonega and CC in popularity. Charlotte and SF continue to lag. I do think it's a little bit of a romantic twist with the Georgia Gold rush. There's gold in them thar hills."People love a good back story, Carson City also has a great buzz around it.
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I tend to lean towards C over D, but not by much. But that's my preference. O is a distant third.
O mint coins are more abundant than D or C mint coins, so among the southern gold enthusiasts, not as high priority with the exception of some rarities. Why preference of D over C, I am not sure that is the case. At least for me, I like them all about the same, bur perhaps like the O mint a little more...... If anything, what Zoins and Justacommem say about the D mint would give it an edge.
Best, SH
For me the Charlotte gold type set is not as interesting. There is no $3 gold, and the 1855-C Type II gold dollar is more common and always very poorly made. As someone else said, the Charlotte coins are harder to find nice in general. I think that on average the Dahlonega Mint made a better product than Charlotte did.
Finally New Orleans and Charlotte are household names. Many people have never heard of Dahlonega or even know how to pronounce the word. When they hear that there was a United States mint there, they are truly surprised.
Another reason people may like D coins is simply there are more collectors and followers of the Denver mint
More seriously, having a decommissioned and reused mintmark is pretty cool too.
Scrabble points....;)
The New Orleans G$1’s and $2.5’s are fairly easy to complete but the $5’s when compared to the C and D mints are surprisingly difficult with the 47-O rivaling the 61-D in absolute rarity and certainly ahead of the 42-C SD.
As a series the 42-O, 47-O, 55-57-O’s are all sub-100 extant coins. Great series!
Latin American Collection
The other factor which I think restricts interest in Charlotte $5’s is the 42-C Small Date. The coin is scarce but boasts a past perception of rarity which makes the issue prohibitively expensive to most collectors with a nice VF a $15k coin.
Latin American Collection
What's this "Dahlonega" you speak of? Seriously though... as much as I like and am tied by heritage to that long-closed Carolina production facility, I could never see myself adding the '42-C Small Date to my Charlotte HE collection. As Boosibri stated above, it's price tag does not track with its true rarity - it's simply way overpriced. For example, the '46-C is just as or even more difficult to obtain in acceptable condition, yet can be obtained for multiple thousands less. Compared to the '42-C SD, it's a much better value.
I like C, D and O gold coins... heck, if it is a gold coin, I like it.
Cheers, RickO
New Orleans gold should get a boost from DW's updated book which will probably be out within the next year; as Brian noted many of the O-mint half eagles are very scarce...I've been looking for a 55 for awhile now...
I agree with the fact the New Orleans is catching as collectors realize the great value in this series. It lacks that uber sexy coin like the 61-D that made Dahlonega and Charlotte past darlings.
SF is both long due to the near 60 year span of the set and uncollectible owing to the inclusion of two stoppers, the prohibitive 1854-S and the rare 1864-S (25-35 extant).
The SF series I think you have to split in distinct groups:
1) 1854-S is a real rarity and prevents a set to every be collectible.
2) 1855-S to 1860-S range from reasonably common to rare. The 1858-S, 1859-S and 1860-S rank in the top 20 dates for the entire No Motto series and are becoming much more collected. I love this rare trio as the best value in the whole NM series.
3) 1861-S - 1865-S are the ultra popular Civil Wars dates and command strong followings. The 64-S being the real once per 5-7 years one shows up.
4) Post Civil War years:
a) Coins like the 1866-S (NM and Motto) through 1876-S are interesting and collectible, under 100 pops extant generally and still reasonably priced. I can see demand here continuing.
b) Common coins from 1877-S to then end of the series are boring
c) Coins post 1900 which pick up demand from the short set collectors.
Latin American Collection
I am quite happy to own representative coins from these mints, which allows me to avoid the impossible rarities.
I have an 1854-S gold dollar. I can look at it and imagine how bad it was for those first San Francisco Mint employees. They breathed acid fumes until some of them got sick. The first S-Mint was nothing more than an expanded privately run assay office.
For New Orleans, I have a couple of fairly high grade gold coins, an 1857-O $2.50 in AU-58 and an 1846-O $5 in AU-58 or MS-61 depending upon your point of view. I also have an 1861-O half dollar without the “Confederate die break” and a Scott Confederate Half Dollar restrike. All of these piece satisfy my need for “a bit of history.”
I used to have one $5 Liberty Head from each mint. I jumped out of collecting for awhile and sold them off.
Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly that was the only coin produced
at all mints, P, C, D, O, CC, and later on Denver.
I'd love to have the set back.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
The M mint is missing but it may be the only coin produced at all continental mints.
True
Latin American Collection
When examined from a wider perspective, only the New Orleans Mint was expected to be successful. (Mostly as a re-processor of gold and silver smuggled out of Mexico and South American states.) All three southern mints were parts of a larger plan to improve economic conditions in the south and to direct local gold field output into the regional and national economy, rather than that of Britain. In pre-Federal days it was widely understood that the southern colonies were badly deficient in population, investment and infrastructure, Once the Constitution was adopted, the Congress and Executive had basic tools available to help the south develop. Acquisition of Louisiana Territory diverted some of this westward, but the south was still a primary growth area. Much of this was self-serving for New England who wanted more efficient access to southern agricultural products and wanted new markets for manufactures. Tariff laws encouraged this but social structures in the south tended to retain traditional British ties.
Anyway -- just some background.
Thanks for the context. You are a wealth of knowledge.
Latin American Collection
I wouldn't count that or West point since it wasn't designated a mint until modern times.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
While West Point has not made the Liberty Head type, they have produced $5 gold coins to the same standard, so you can expand the mintmark set if you want.
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
I see West Point as a producer of modern collectibles & bullion. I don't believe they ever made coins for circulation. Yes, it's a U.S. mint but for this purpose I don't include it. I suppose it's a matter of perspective to each collector.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
The trouble with this plan was the high tariffs on imported goods prompted deep resentment in the South which almost resulted in a civil war during the Jackson administration. The South remained closer to the British because England provided a market for southern agricultural products, especially cotton and provided them with finished goods. The tariffs allowed the New England manufacturers to charge more for their goods than the British would have charged, which angered the South.
Of course the Buchanan's Liberty of the first spouse series was indeed the Liberty Head type minted at W.
West Point made circulation Lincoln cents in the 1970s but they weren’t allowed to have mintmarks
I think that the Mint wanted to avoid creating a rarity and having the coins hoarded.
Then many coins were made at all the designated mints when Philadelphia was the only mint
RE: "The trouble with this plan was the high tariffs on imported goods prompted deep resentment in the South which almost resulted in a civil war during the Jackson administration. The South remained closer to the British because England provided a market for southern agricultural products, especially cotton and provided them with finished goods. The tariffs allowed the New England manufacturers to charge more for their goods than the British would have charged, which angered the South."
Yep, and that was why Congress wanted to improved commerce and manufacturing in the South as well as direct commerce between new England and the southern states. The high tariffs were, in part, intended to encourage American mechanical innovation. True, it was cheaper to buy from Britain, but that was not a long-term solution - it made the US little more than a colony on the same model as pre-Revolutionary War.
Basic cultural problems for the south were that many of the plantations were built on the British estate model and owned by 2nd and 3rd sons of British landowners. Giving up this semi-nobility and privileged status was nearly impossible. Mid-Atlantic, New England and the new mid-West lands were dominated by small-scale, decentralized social organizations reminiscent of northern Europe. In those areas economic models ranged from complete communal settlements (often called the "Utopia" movement) to hard-driving capitalists who burnt through wage-workers like wildfire.
Southern plantation owner resentment was evident, but there was insufficient free population and infrastructure to do more than create a political and later military stalemate. One common southern argument in favor of black slavery was that it was a more humane way to treat workers than the northern approach of use-abuse-discard.
The two southern gold mints were one means of attempting to put southern natural resources into the national economy instead of Britain's economy. A fundamental flaw was that there weren't enough people or manufactures in the south to make use of the gold and other capital generated - so benefits migrated north were it could be used.
At least Congress, especially after the New England Secession (Hartford Convention 1814-1815) scare, was trying.