I have a really stupid question, but I've always wondered.............
MWallace
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can a cleaned coin become "uncleaned" if carried around as a pocket piece for a while?
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I think that there is ample evidence that many coins in problem free holders were once cleaned in the past.
If lightly hairlined carrying in ones pocket would remove the outermost layer of metal and reduce hairlining. Doesn’t make it uncleaned but may contribute along with other factors to making it market acceptable over time.
Latin American Collection
Depends on what you mean by “cleaned”.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Any coin that Detail grades by a TPG because of "Improperly Cleaned" or "Cleaning".
Often tarnish will conceal evidence of previous cleaning...also, as mentioned above, pocket wear or - as I have seen done, a session in a cartridge cleaning device with fine media...The fact is that these methods simply conceal evidence, and actually introduce further 'damage' to the coin. Cheers, RickO
Coins that have been cleaned can eventually make it into gradeable holders.
It appears that "cleaning" is determined only by observation. Thus, with time and storage conditions, a cleaned coin might later look "natural."
Lots of early gold have been cleaned at one time or another in years past, and are now in holders.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
I actually have a cleaned 1897 $10 Gold piece in a PCGS Holder............unfortunately the Holder does say "N1"
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This is a good question that I have also wondered about. I have always assumed or suspected that if someone is willing to sacrifice a grade level or so that carrying a coin around for a while will erase most if not all evidence of cleaning.
It seems to me that in most cases (although maybe not all), "cleaned" refers to the surface and if that surface is removed by further circulation then the coin is now "original " again, although probably at a lower grade..
It seems logical.
Good question as I've often wondered this myself.
It seems to me it depends on how severe the cleaning was. A light cleaning should only take a light amount of "circulation" before the coin looks normal again. A heavy cleaning may require the coin experience significant wear before the evidence has disappeared.
Agree with Shamika, It Depends on the Coin and how bad the cleaning
Also, it depends on "carrying".
Natural circulation takes years and involves different people, transactions, storage conditions, and accumulations of dirt, oils, etc.
It is difficult for a collector with this goal (of rehabilitation) to resist "helping" by rubbing coin with fingers, cloth, water, etc, which will tend to give coin an undesirable "polished" appearance over time, rather than a natural look.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Don't know if it becomes "uncleaned", but you can get them graded. My only fear was accidentally spending the coin.
Definitely not a stupid question! My personal experience (though not extensive) is that it takes a surprisingly long period of wear to counteract the effect of even a rather light cleaning. For example, for several years, I have been carrying around some circulated commens that had been dipped--not harshly cleaned. After a few years rattling around in my pocket, they remain unnaturally light in color.
Many lightly cleaned Bust Dollars are in first world TPG holders. At some point in time, the powers that be realized that a very small percentage of these coins have been unmolested, and since people wanted them, made the decision to allow lightly cleaned coins of this series to be slabbed.
The definition of "lightly cleaned" is very subjective in this regard, and in my opinion, is not consistently applied. If you have a lightly cleaned Bust Dollar which was graded thirty years ago and it is noted as such on the holder, it may straight grade today. If it was graded five years ago, forget about it. But check with a "big fish" when it comes to Bust Dollars before resubmitting it.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I have had some success with mitigating the effects of chemical cleaning of circulated coins by patiently rubbing the coins with nose oil and my thumb, and allowing them to set a week or more between applications. Can take months to do it right.
Fortunately and perhaps unfortunately in many cases, from what I have personally observed looking at very, very, many coins in major TPGS holders, it takes a "fair" amount of obvious "cleaning" to get a coin "detailed." Take a look at the ANA Grading Guide chart with the Morgan dollar section. Very often coins with the amount of hairlines allowed even in the MS-62 grade can be proven to be affected by improper cleaning. Even coins that are buffed or polished can be found "detailed" as only cleaned. For that reason, "fixing" any one of these detailed coins is rarely possible or feasible.
Once a collector learns the proper way to examine a coin and what natural coins should look like, many cleaned coins can be detected with your eyes alone!
I agree; petroleum of proboscis patiently applied can produce a pleasing and presentable product.
The most severe cleaning will require you to wear a coin down as much as three grades to hide the effect. Frequently thumbing alone is sufficient. Most cleaning that affects the high points preferentially (ie- most cleaning) requires only half to a single grade to hide.
If you soak copper culls (improperly cleaned) in alcohol some will be market acceptable almost immediately, and if the rest just sit exposed to warmth and air for six months, many will be presentable.
Most of the rest will need to be worn by some means. Most will look fine before wearing even half a grade.
If not hairlined a sunny window sill is your friend if you are patient!
If cleaned with a Brillo pad , it’s toast.
chemically cleaned coins usually can with more wear and a lower grade
mechanically cleaned (scratched) may not be salvageable, depending on how harsh
Interesting question, I've been wondering this about a 37-D 3 legged Buffalo that I have. There are no surface hairlines but graded AU details-Cleaned. The only thing I can see that might be from a cleaning is maybe the high spots are shinier than they "should" be for an AU coin. I'm thinking about cracking it out and "circulating it" a bit in a bag of wheat cents or something.
Is this from the old baking soda cleaning method that was at one point acceptable?
Collector, occasional seller
And doesn't the term "improperly cleaned" imply that there must be a "proper" way to clean coins?
@CaptHenway said: "And doesn't the term "improperly cleaned" imply that there must be a "proper" way to clean coins?"
Yes. This was discussed in a Summer Seminar class I was in around 1973. I believe Jim Johnson (it may have been one of his peers) had written about cleaning in an article. After reading it, an ANA Authenticator took it one obvious step further. He taught that if a coin was cleaned "PROPERLY" no one could tell it had been cleaned!
From then on, this distinction was published and taught so that it gradually took hold. Today, "proper cleaning" is called "conservation.
In many cases, I would think so, regardless of the cleaning method (abrasively cleaned or chemically cleaned), but only likely at a much lower grade level.
Dave
Nickels are a tough nut once they have been messed with.