When does CACflation begin?
topstuf
Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
Doesn't it almost HAVE to happen?
As the coins get "approved" they are out of the loop.
It's a business. Businesses have to find ways to stay in business.
And what if JOHN leaves for any reason? Then does the sticker confer a desirable provenance or just a historical notation?
I'm not talking about "tomorrow" but just thinking ahead.
????
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Comments
I'd like to believe what was discussed in threads when people were requesting a CAC submission history a month or so ago.
As long as they remain relatively consistent, the same coins will manage to get submitted over and over again by unknowing buyers. Perhaps rather than inflation, they can look to more people taking advantage of CAC at lower grades, or even perhaps some sort of deals with the major TPG's (one for general condition and one for actual appeal/strike/toning/etc)
There's a number of paths besides running their reputation into the ground, perhaps if they did start to loosen up the grading standards we could see new "generations" of stickers, like holders, to indicate the standards of a given era.
If John retires, they better start a new sticker. No way I am going to trust the next generation the same.
All I could see if coins got submitted over and over would be a huge postage burn because CAC does record what has been submitted.
Maybe they'd have to post that info if it got too heavy.
Apparently it already has. Check out the other thread with the 95-O dime. It did NOT CAC in an AU53 holder but it DID CAC in an AU55 holder.
Not necessarily. CAC re-evaluates coins that are submitted to it and will give all of them a fresh look. I had a coin fail once and resubmitted it a short time later. It stickered in the same plastic at the same grade the second time around.
Will wonders never cease.
Please define "CACflation."
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
My guess is that the OP meant either:
(1) Coins that didn't sticker before will eventually sticker (without the holder changing)
(2) Coins that did not sticker at lower grades will sticker at higher grades (i.e. an unstickered MS 63 is upgraded to MS 64 and subsequently gets the sticker)
Then good business sense dictates that the beans never change.
CAC IS John A. I don't know how the brand would survive or retain the same credibility in his wake.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Jack Nicklaus's kids can golf, > @topstuf said:
There would then be, when was this graded? You would have to prove your coin got a sticker before some dude took over. It would be a mess.
Of course. There is no real incentive for CAC to engage in grade inflation. Unlike the TPGs, it does not generate a lot of revenue through submissions, and it may very well lose money in the time and resources it expends in reviewing coins. Remember that it doesn't charge collectors, so John effectively donates a lot of time. Second, since CAC buys the coins, restickering at a higher grade would only mean that it would need to pay more for it in the future. Third, there is no CAC guarantee so grade inflation does not limit payout under a guarantee (i.e. yesterday's TPG errors are now "correctly" graded due to shifting standards).
I state this as fact, JA will be working from his grave passing or flunking coins for cac
When more stickered the novelty will wear off and sellers will need lower their prices sell them then operation willl fold.
But if u just love them have some sell u TPG PG plus 35 pct.
I don't think "novelty" is driving CAC's premiums. I believe CAC celebrated its 10th anniversary this year.
Does this mean the same for PCGS once David Hall retires?
Later, Paul.
I've only seen CACdeflation.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
CAC has to move with gradeflation or slowly die.
So far CAC has used a trustworthy, unwavering grade scale, but TPGs' grades are slowly escalating, or gradeflation.
Given this, all CAC'd coins will eventually deserve an upgrade according to the TPGs, but not to CAC.
Your upgradable coin will be entitled to an upgrade but will be trapped by the value of the green bean, as the coin will never get CAC'd at the higher grade, unless of course they change their scale too.
You will eventually clearly know that your CAC'd coin is absolutely better than newly graded counterparts, and it will be calling out for upgrade. Tough call because you will lose your bean.
Maybe design a new bean.
Green beans should slowly turn gold over time.
Maybe, maybe not. I could see CAC begin to assign grades and make stickers with numbers on them. It would be sort of like EAC grading, and in auction listings sometimes you see both the NGC/PCGS grade listed along with an EAC grade. That is what I would really like to see (except for problem coins of course).
While cool, I think that would cause tremendous confusion because I'm sure they would disagree with the grade quite often - anywhere from 20-50% of the time. Also, they would have to give a grade and a sticker, otherwise they can't agree with an MS65 grade but not sticker it because they think it's a C coin.
A+. A. A-. B+. B. B-. C+. C. C-
Etc, ad absurdum.
Maybe we could have a "burnt green bean" colored sticker for coins that would green bean at the grade below.
A CAC sticker means JA / CAC is willing to buy the coin. JA / CAC is in the business of wholesaling coins, not stickering them.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Then there should be a red bean to indicate nice coin but running low on funds.
CAC makes no to very little money on submissions. In fact, the cost to hire secretaries and workers to handle submissions and pay graders basically takes away any money "made". I dont believe that is how they make their money. CAC makes money buying and selling CAC coins. Look at their website. Since their inception they have bought and sold $500,000,000+ worth of cac coins. If their markup was only 1% thats still $5,000,000.
The ultimate motive of the cac sticker is to identify coins that John Albanese would be willing to buy "sight unseen" (ie once he's seen it and given the sticker he no longer needs to see it again specifically in order to make an offer).
It used to be that pcgs and ngc coins traded aggressively sight unseen by the mere fact it was in either holder. Today that is no longer the case and coins need to be seen more to sell.
The cac sticker allows John to preview the coins and identify them for some time in the future if they were ever to be offered to him- would he be a buyer.
If either pcgs or ngc didnt get new coins submitted they would fold and no longer be in business. If every coin was already submitted to cac, John Albanese would still be running his buying and selling business and be more thankful he does not have to grade anymore.
What's his website? All I get from his name is a listing as a PCGS dealer and a phone number.
I was told that Albanese Coins is NOT......John.
coinace
It isn't. I asked them about that at a show.
When does CACflation begin?
I would think it is an inevitability and has already taken place from the replies posted.
caccoin.com
I made the same mistake about albanese coin years ago... the owner of coinace or at least mr Albanese was quite an interesting person. I believe he ended up selling the company to bonnie sable
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You are correct. The entity was originally owned by David Albanese, who transferred it to his son, whose name I believe was Dean, who called himself 'Coinace.' They are relatives of John Albanese. And yes, the entity was sold to Bonnie Sabel.
BTW: Nice summary re the CAC operation.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I don't think JA/CAC are short of cash.
A shortage of customer for coin is even worse.
.> @topstuf said:
5 x MS67 MCMVII Saints on the same day? - easy
First MS69 Barber 50c? - talk about pulling a number out of your butt if Joe O'Connor already passed.
The only thing that remains the same, is change. Cheers, RickO
At some point they are going to have to train fresh eyes...
As the same crew who's getting up in age and already wears glasses won't be able to look at hundreds of coins a day forever without making mistakes. Eye strain, fatigue, and being kept in dark room like a mushroom are factors many ex TPG graders mention they don't miss. That's why most only do it for a few years and then become coin dealers.
When the dealers say so.
Edit, When the so called major dealers say so. Gotta have major in there. Or world class.
They very small part of total graded material on eBay.