Please post examples of artificial toning.
We see a lot of attractive natural coins here; however, I'm interested in seeing some images of artificial toning patterns and colors. Unfortunately, I cannot take a photo of the entire coin so I'll start off with these. I'll be posting more later.
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I would post one of my golds, but so far, they've all come back natural
I would be interested in seeing some golds that have been labeled artificial though.1 -
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Endynamicmarketing. AT
Heat toned.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com1 -
CoinZip, those are cool. Yours?
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown1 -
Mine made it on pcgs website under grading coins, examples of the codes.
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CoinsAreFun Pictorials Album FOR SALE SOME will mark final ones before auction
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC FOR SALE3 -
@AUandAG said:
Endynamicmarketing. ATHeat toned.
bobI don't look at quarters too often but the strike on that one looks awesome.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown2 -
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In a TacoBell napkin,outside in a south facing window ledge for 4 years.
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After two years of experimentation, I dipped all my trial pieces.... I also dismantled my high speed tarnish assembly, it was just too good....
Cheers, RickO2 -
In the PCGS code post there are two colored squares. One "described" other "Holdered."
If a coin is cleaned, the chart says:
Described: NO
Holdered: YESI don't understand. AFAIK, the label will say (be described as) "cleaned" and the coin will be holdered.
The damaged coin is described and holdered. What is the difference? Both are "details" coins.
Answer please? I'm going to see if the PCGS site answers my question but you all probably know.
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I've seen an NGC "AU, smoothed" Gobrecht re-toned and re-appear as PCGS "XF, environmentally damaged".
"Some pigs are less unequal than others" - George Orwell
@ricko said:
After two years of experimentation, I dipped all my trial pieces.... I also dismantled my high speed tarnish assembly, it was just too good.... Cheers, RickOAny advice on neutralization for dipped silver is valuable enough to bear repetition.
Mine is (sometimes)
A receptacle wide enough to swish the coin, maybe 3 inches deep.
Water
1 Tablespoon baking soda.
Let sit for 5 minutes(The abrasive detritus carrying the basic ions you need has turned into a slurry that has settled to the bottom.
The very minor scuzz on the surface is meaningless).I swish the coin (because I'm superstitious). Likely the chemical reaction took place in the first few micro-moments of immersion.
I like to rinse the coin in running sink water a bit too hot to wash dishes with.
Yours?
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell0 -
Baking soda/distilled water solution in ultrasonic cleaner followed by deionized water in ultrasonic. Make sure you swish the coin around while it is in the ultrasonic to keep the bubbles from damaging the surface. Compressed air. Acetone rinse recommended for any nickel alloy pieces.
Got any AT images?
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@ricko said:
After two years of experimentation, I dipped all my trial pieces.... I also dismantled my high speed tarnish assembly, it was just too good.... Cheers, RickOWe need pictures!
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Really boys, bring it on. We all have or favorite recipes. The Colonel and Insider have chimed in. I respect them for that. If for nothing else. My favorite potion involves smashed hard boiled eggs, vinager, a pinch of gun powder, and a zip lock bag. And a shot(s)? of Jim Beam for me. The best part about my "TONING TECHNIQUE," is that if it doesn't come out the way I like it the first time, I just tell Mrs. Hydrant to wash the rejects in the kitchen sink, and I do it again. I love watching her scrubbing the rejects......the "Women's Movement" and all. YAHOO!!!!
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@Hydrant said:
Really boys, bring it on. We all have or favorite recipes. The Colonel and Insider have chimed in. I respect them for that. If for nothing else. My favorite potion involves smashed hard boiled eggs, vinager, a pinch of gun powder, and a zip lock bag. And a shot(s)? of Jim Beam for me. The best part about my "TONING TECHNIQUE," is that if it doesn't come out the way I like it the first time, I just tell Mrs. Hydrant to wash the rejects in the kitchen sink, and I do it again. I love watching her scrubbing the rejects......the "Women's Movement" and all. YAHOO!!!!Note that this thread is about detecting artificial toning by seeing some of its different patterns and colors. I'll have more to post later.
BTW, the Colonel and I posted about neutralizing a coin after a "dip" not about toning them.
PS As for your respect... ***
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From what I've seen in this thread (based on just these images, mind you), none of them would have fooled me but there are a few that are attractive, especially that Ike.
10-4,
My Instagram pictures
Erik
My registry sets1 -
@Hydrant said:
Really boys, bring it on. We all have or favorite recipes. The Colonel and Insider have chimed in. I respect them for that. If for nothing else. My favorite potion involves smashed hard boiled eggs, vinager, a pinch of gun powder, and a zip lock bag. And a shot(s)? of Jim Beam for me. The best part about my "TONING TECHNIQUE," is that if it doesn't come out the way I like it the first time, I just tell Mrs. Hydrant to wash the rejects in the kitchen sink, and I do it again. I love watching her scrubbing the rejects......the "Women's Movement" and all. YAHOO!!!!Note that this thread is about detecting artificial toning by seeing some of its different patterns and colors. I'll have more to post later.
The Colonel and I posted about neutralizing a coin after a "dip."
PS As for your respect...
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Why buy one when you can have the whole roll, wow. I was looking to pick up a roll of ASEs and ran into this monstrosity on eBay, I won't post the sellers link, but you get the idea.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
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This is a very old picture that I transferred from a slide, but this 1853 With Arrows Dime was in my collection in the 1980s. The color is not original.
This 1838 half dime was also helped along with respect to the color.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?0 -
PCGS called this one artificial. I'm not sure I agree but it's possible.
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@BillJones said:
This is a very old picture that I transferred from a slide, but this 1853 With Arrows Dime was in my collection in the 1980s. The color is not original.This 1838 half dime was also helped along with respect to the color.
Fooled me! It should be very helpful to all of us if you reveal how did you determined the color was not original?
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@Meltdown said:
PCGS called this one artificial. I'm not sure I agree but it's possible.Toning is a wonderful thing. Many times natural toned coins are condemned and much more times an artificial coin is accepted. For me, it comes down to the appearance. If it looks natural - that's fine with me. That is why I wished to see more examples of artificial toning. I once worked for a dealer who heated his store with gas. The walls of several rooms were pine. The summers were very humid. This dealer threw his silver bars and rounds in buckets. As the bucket filled up he stuck the filled bucket in a back room. Years later, we started cleaning up the mess. The buckets had cobwebs, and the top pieces were even dusty. It was a learning experience for me.
Not one piece of silver looked like bright new silver. I saw every color of the spectrum except ORANGE!" Beautiful, iridescent greens, blues, violets, pinks, etc. The prooflike surfaces on many of the pieces brought out the smooth homogeneous and vivid colors. I've got a "rosy-pink" Peace dollar from the batch. What I'm getting at is this. Not one of those pieces - with totally original toning would be considered "market acceptable!
I'm glad someone brought this thread back to page one as I intend to post more AT.
As for this Peace dollar, AT or NT - who cares. I love it!
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"Toning is a wonderful thing. Many times natural toned coins are condemned and much more times an artificial coin is accepted. For me, it comes down to the appearance. If it looks natural - that's fine with me."
This statement is consistent with my experience as well. Regarding the Peace dollar that is posted above the statement, there was a local monthly show that I attended back around the late 1990s and early 2000s where a dealer had several dozen raw Peace dollars all with the same (and similar) colors and patterns as the one imaged and he was pretty straightforward that they were all newly produced at home. His comment was "people like pretty". I have a guess about the history of Peace dollars that look like this one, but it is just a guess.
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Many years ago, I was at a show where a dealer had most of his case full of toned Morgan's as he claimed to be one of the "market makers." We started talking ant it turned out he claimed to have produced some of the coins. They all looked natural to me. I traded a beautifully toned CC dollar still in the case (back then the toning rage and price escalation had not taken place) for his "secret process" so I could satisfy my curiosity, increase my knowledge, and teach others about AT. Color me a sucker!
PS As you know, many times coins that are stored the same develop similar toning. Glad he was honest with you.
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I would still love to see a known example of fake toning on gold. Not one someone believe is fake, but one that they did the toning themselves, so can verify.
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@jwitten One thing you can look for (not actual toning) is a "blue" hue coming from the cloudy, patchy, sandy - tan colored "skin" alteration on gold. Also a dark reddish residue (from the chemical used to alter the surface) inside the recessed design. I'll image the next piece of fake "dirty gold" I come across in a PM for you. May take a while as the things have "dried-up" around here.
PS Did you see the article about "Dirty Gold" in Numismatic News?
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Not sure how this happened:
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@Insider2 said:
@jwitten One thing you can look for (not actual toning) is a "blue" hue coming from the cloudy, patchy, sandy - tan colored "skin" alteration on gold. Also a dark reddish residue (from the chemical used to alter the surface) inside the recessed design. I'll image the next piece of fake "dirty gold" I come across in a PM for you. May take a while as the things have "dried-up" around here.PS Did you see the article about "Dirty Gold" in Numismatic News?
I'm not sure, I might have. Do you have a link so I can check? And again, I would like to see one that someone themselves made, to be sure it's fake. Many I've posted people speculate are fake, but no one has ever showed a proven fake one, which is what I am interested in seeing.
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Fooled me! It should be very helpful to all of us if you reveal how did you determined the color was not original?
The 1853 Arrows Dime had bright, unnatural color on the obverse which does not show up as bright as it was on the slide. It was out of place on an EF-AU coin.
The 1838 No Draperty Half Dime had a glossy gray color that was not consistent with original gray. There was also a bright brown spot on the obverse that was created by whatever the coin doctor used to color the coin.
These two pieces were fillers for the the types until I got something better.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?0 -
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Post more, deceptive toners please.
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Deceptive, but pretty. What you think?
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PCGS said these are AT. Not so sure about the half dime, though.
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I sold a 1903 Morgan that was a nice AU63-64 coin to a dealer that really like the natural toning. I told him I actually put the cards in motion for it to look that way. I just saw he had it for sale in a PCGS MS64 holder.
thefinn0 -
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Attractive, but a very unnatural frosty blue with some subtle red peaking out that's hard to see in the photos.
I was still pretty naïve about copper when I bought it, and kicking myself because I also paid way too much for what it
really is.
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PCGS says this dime was AT. I cracked it from a little ANA slab graded MS62
They bodybagged this Peace dollar as well.
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Artificial toning
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?0 -
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Not even close:
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