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Is this scratch worth the "details" grade?
jwitten
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I've owned ones that were straight graded that looked far worse.
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Looks to me like it should straight grade,
No, I would crack it and resubmit it. I'm surprised it didn't straight grade.
Is the scratch under the eye?
bob
No. Send it to our host. it will grade problem-free.
Lance.
I believe the one they saw is above the I in Liberty, running up to the star
A lot is said about the grading powers-that-be, whether TPGs or CAC. This is where I just don't get it.
Is this coin supposed to sell at a big discount to one in the same condition without that 'scratch'? BTW I assume it's the one above the 'i' in Liberty?
There's a part of me that wants to just start buying up amazing coins in these Details holders (not necessarily gold) and socking them away for a time when this sort of thing is recognized for what it is.
Some of us do this already.
Lance.
I feel like I got a pretty nice coin for the price. Only 100 estimated left, and paid under $240 for it!
the scratch(s) are negligible imo. And have seen much worse in problem free holders. I see the jaw scratch more prominent (and distracting) than the one on The field.
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I feel like you got a VERY good deal as well. Nice original coin. Congrats!
You did well. I think it should straight grade if you resubmit. Good example of buying the coin instead of the holder.
I agree it should straight grade. Those small marks are perfectly OK for the grade. JMHO.
I agree with this, NGC is very cautious about scratchs. PCGS less so and this one does not seem to be a details scratch.
Best, SH
Tough love @jwitten,
I'm going to be in the minority here. IMO, that is not a very attractive coin. While it is the "dirty gold" color you like, it's got an extremely baggy surface, hairlines, and a thin scratch - much due to honest circulation. The reverse is not close to XF (I will not reply to the members who post crap like worn reverse die or strike weakness). I believe NGC "detailed the coin" to keep it graded as an XF. Why bother to spend money on more grading fees when you can buy other coins? The $2 1/2 is what it is. When you eventually sell it (even raw) the dealer is going to tell you the same things I have posted except he will add "lightly buffed."
PS You should feel very guilty for stealing the coin!
I actually didn't buy this one for the color, lol. I bought it because I thought it was a great price for a rare date. Yes, the reverse is holding the grade back some I think. I think the obverse might be on the verge of AU. I don't think it looks too baggy or beat up for the grade.. I think it is a very pleasing coin, honestly. Here is a pcgs xf40:
LOL, now you've gone and done it. Posters will be writing about both coins. I suggest you dump the image of the PCGS obverse and say this is an XF reverse on another coin.
Is it possible that under grading conditions the scratch 'jumps out' in the fields because it is a recent anomaly? (hasn't had time to mellow yet and is in stark contrast to the surrounding surfaces)
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Problem free XF40... Good luck.
I think that weakness of the strike on the reverse is really going to hold the first coin back. Cleaning might also be involved, but I would have to it in person to determine. Docking it for scratches seems really picky to me since the most obvious scratch for that defect is the mark others noted above the head.
@WoodenJefferson said: "Is it possible that under grading conditions the scratch 'jumps out' in the fields because it is a recent anomaly? (hasn't had time to mellow yet and is in stark contrast to the surrounding surfaces)?"
IMO, the only scratch I see is above the head and in the posted image it is dark and mellow. I suspet it is an old scratch and is deeper into the coin than it looks.
This looks like a classic case of the wrong person submitting it. I agree it should straight grade.
I've seen way worse that straight graded.
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I think the scatch does not date from when the wear happened therefor the details grade. Have seen a few staple scratches from the old 2X2's we used to keep coins in ruin the coin for collectors grade.
I like it as VF30. Are you sure the line above the I in Liberty is not a die crack?
Anyway, I think the reverse is too weak to hold the XF40 grade. But unless the scratch is lighting-dependent, I'm straight grading it.
And at the price you paid, well done!
I think it would grade at PCGS.
The coin should grade at PCGS with ease. The scratch looks like it was done in 1846 or soon thereafter from the pic.
I would term that 'Hairline Scratch.'
Has a few light scratches, the first i noticed are under the eagle.
Individually they arent that bad, but above the I in Liberty, on the face and around the date, and other smaller marks all add up.
Still a great coin at the low price paid
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Nice coin at a good price.... that should straight grade..... Cheers, RickO
I'm no expert, but I would agree with ricko's opinion
Doesn't look too detracting on that coin
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@Goldbully said: "I would term that 'Hairline Scratch.'"
IMHO, this is what causes problems in communication. The line above Liberty's head is not a hairline! I'll guarantee if I sold you or anyone else (as knowledgeable as you) that coin "sight unseen" and RAW described as an original XF with a hairline scratch over the head you would be on me so fast...
For that reason, this rant is not directed at you. Hairlines are just above the microscopic level. They are not even visible half the time (even with magnification) until the coin is in the proper orientation with the light. That's why they are not usually visible in an Internet image. In a technical sense, hairlines are the lowest form of scratches to a coin's surface.
Sorry @jwitten to say this (remember, very nice coin, extremely good price, most think it should straight grade so possibly will in the future) Now that all bases are covered (?) That coin has tons of hairlines! Fortunately, they really show up well as a bright patch over $2 1/2 D.
Since this forum is not a classroom of beginners, my rant is over. Now "we" all can continue to do what "we" all do and call all hairlines - hairline scratches. Nevertheless, when a scratch becomes this obvious, IMHO, it's best to call it a scratch in addition to an adjective such as minor, tiny, short, etc.
I do not find it justified to be resting in that holder in more ways than one.
Send it to our host to get it properly tombified
Cannot hurt to try for a straight grade. That should get it valued closer to what it should be.
It is hard to tell from pictures and the graders had the coin in hand. The first thing that caught my eye is what appears to be graffiti in the field in front of the mouth and down toward the bottom of the coin. It reminded me of Snoopy standing up dancing.
I've wondered the same about this $5 Classic. Small scratch on the right side below the 3rd star. Looks recent. Would it grade?
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
I think straight.
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2021 Young Numismatist of the Year
NO, too deep!
I had a classic $5 piece that graded AU details "scratches"; then straight as an AU55. I would not give up unless the issue is clearly overshadowing of the merits of the coin.
I think the $5 looks cleaned.. but it might just be the pictures.
How deep in the scratch?
Grading strictly from the photos (FWIW), I think the coin would straight grade as a high VF at PCGS, with the reverse not supporting an XF grade.
While there is a scratch, it seems in line with what a VF35 might have seen in normal circulation.
I only expect problems specifically noted on the holder if they go beyond what one would expect as normal for the assigned grade.
This.....have to ask/wonder why it was sent ATS instead of our hosts???
Cause some people prefer them? I know I recently submitted a few gold error coins to ngc, because they are a lot cheaper, and will slab peeling lamination errors, unlike pcgs.
NGC gold rush is a good option, you can even mix and match small gold on the minimum 5 coin invoice and they just charge a few bucks more for those and turn them around in a week. I wish PCGS offered a service comparable to "gold rush".
From here on I change my answer to 'tiny meaningless scratch.'
Now, please review my Grant Commemorative with Star. Do you see a very large 'scratch' on Grant's face?
I call this beautiful coin Scar Face Grant w/ star.
Oh, It's a MS63 all day according to our hosts.
Not all scratches are created equal.
Here is one of my gold toners with a scratch. Straight graded as AU58.
Totally understand about preference, it was just a 'wonder why', maybe they'd be 'easier' on it ATS. And, as far as the peeling laminations, I had a BTW commem with a MAD peeling lamination, which our hosts obviously USED to grade, an MS65. It was clearly under-graded, I wanted it to go back for another looksee/upgrade. At that time, I wasn't very good with submissions, so called our hosts, and was told if they got it again, it'd be bagged (or was it a 'gennie' holder, can't recall).
I'm confident it is not cleaned, though it is hard to tell that from the photos.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
I'm not sure how to communicate how deep the scratch in the $5 Classic is. It is not just a surface abrasion, it does go into the metal. Like a staple scratch.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
@Goldbully said: "From here on I change my answer to 'tiny meaningless scratch.'"
Excellent! Now if you would have said "a tiny, meaningless, vertical scratch at the top of Liberty's head, I could close my eyes and imagine exactly what it looked like.
"Now, please review my Grant Commemorative with Star. Do you see a very large 'scratch' on Grant's face? I call this beautiful coin Scar Face Grant w/ star."
Great nickname! That coin has definite personality! Too bad it is in plastic. Otherwise you could put some red ink in the gouge and really have a neat looking "scarface!"
"Oh, It's a MS63 all day according to our hosts."
As it should be. A beautiful, lustrous original coin with a damaged obverse = MS-63 all day long in my book too!
"Not all scratches are created equal. "
Absolutely, they are described in degrees, just as hairlines. For example, the deep gouge on the cheek of your coin is out of the "scratch" category.
That was not made by a "normal" staple. Note how wide it is on one end.