This is a very interesting thread. I have been reading posts in this site for several years now. It seems like the majority of the regular posters on this site would be considered well-heeled when compared to many collectors. There is a whole world of collectors out there who feel that spending $200-500 on a coin is a major purchase. A lot of these collectors can’t afford rare gold coins or any gold coins. Or maybe they have some common gold type set coins that are some of their most expensive coins. There is no disrespect intended here- but the average middle class coin collector cannot relate to some of the issues discussed on this post and on this site, so their view of the coin market could well be totally different. The market for “widgets” is still thriving. Conversely if a collector did pay $100 for a coin and now it is only worth $80 it will not cause these collectors to lose a lot sleep over it. I guess maybe the other reality for many here is that once you have driven a Mercedes it is hard to go back to driving a used Chevy.
Well, I understand. Generally speaking, non US real assets represent better value than US. I grew up 85 miles south of US-CA border, and started collecting Canadian when I was in high school. A lot of it was available as I was next to Canada, but was cheap because I was not in Canada. I still have my Vicky cent collection in brown UNC, now worth many times what I paid. I also had a Newfoundland 1888 50 cent that I sold....please forgive me YQQ !
@uscoinguy said:
This is a very interesting thread. I have been reading posts in this site for several years now. It seems like the majority of the regular posters on this site would be considered well-heeled when compared to many collectors. There is a whole world of collectors out there who feel that spending $200-500 on a coin is a major purchase. A lot of these collectors can’t afford rare gold coins or any gold coins. Or maybe they have some common gold type set coins that are some of their most expensive coins. There is no disrespect intended here- but the average middle class coin collector cannot relate to some of the issues discussed on this post and on this site, so their view of the coin market could well be totally different. The market for “widgets” is still thriving. Conversely if a collector did pay $100 for a coin and now it is only worth $80 it will not cause these collectors to lose a lot sleep over it. I guess maybe the other reality for many here is that once you have driven a Mercedes it is hard to go back to driving a used Chevy.
It's easy to get a rarity kick in markets less mature than US coins, such as world coins, tokens and medals. I started looking into rare So-Called Dollars a few years ago and now have a number of rare, if not unique, items. It's fun to get relatively inexpensive pieces that can take years or decades to surface. It also requires patience and persistence but can be done with a lower budget.
Glad you said it, and others reiterated it. There is a sweet spot in the triangle you describe and if it doesn't keep up with the appetite or pace to keep interest, then one tends to move to something else.
For me, making the move to World seemed logical but only lasted a few years at best, then the same thing happened so I basically moved on from buying coins.
Like others have said, same goes for other fields. Automobiles, real estate, other antiques, you name it, all seem to have the same pluses or minuses. I've basically taken my available collecting money and put it to work on a collectable car I can drive and tools for it and then traveling more, which gets me out of the office and somewhat happier. Inspired. Influenced. I used to travel to shows and drop a bunch of cash, now I'm just traveling and skip the coins and really getting into the places I'm going.
Still have an afterglow from three days in Chicago with my wife. We've gotten so into going there over the years were having so much fun just going INTO the buildings we used to just walked around Exploring!, One bridge has sculptures with Weiman and Fraser depictions and just grooving on all the architecture, museums, food, Wrigley concerts, music, art, people, can't wait to get back. Went to one coin shop but nothing in there worth an inquiry. More interested in the ring of food trucks around block. I could go there twice for what my fugio cost and take my kids and enjoy it with them instead of leaving the coin to them and I'll likely sell it to do just that.
With that said, I had a blast with numismatics, and then it wasn't and I had to look at why. No big deal really, nothing really sours me about the hobby, I'm just chalking it up as other things are calling me harder.
@uscoinguy said:
This is a very interesting thread. I have been reading posts in this site for several years now. It seems like the majority of the regular posters on this site would be considered well-heeled when compared to many collectors. There is a whole world of collectors out there who feel that spending $200-500 on a coin is a major purchase. A lot of these collectors can’t afford rare gold coins or any gold coins. Or maybe they have some common gold type set coins that are some of their most expensive coins. There is no disrespect intended here- but the average middle class coin collector cannot relate to some of the issues discussed on this post and on this site, so their view of the coin market could well be totally different. The market for “widgets” is still thriving. Conversely if a collector did pay $100 for a coin and now it is only worth $80 it will not cause these collectors to lose a lot sleep over it. I guess maybe the other reality for many here is that once you have driven a Mercedes it is hard to go back to driving a used Chevy.
Really good post
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Boosibri said:
After ten years of collecting US gold I have come to a point where I find it difficult to balance quality, rarity and value in a way that makes me feel comfortable in deploying thousands of dollars towards most coins any longer.
I completely agree as well. I've been collecting SF gold for more than a decade now and have less than a dozen coins remaining in the $1-$5 subset. It's been a year since I've found a new coin for the set that passes both quality and cost checks, and I've been seriously thinking of just switching to a box of 20 concept with no series focus. The past few years, I've been spending more and more of my time with world coins, such as World Coins minted by the US, coins of the CAR... even bought a cool-looking 1739 Mexican Real from @Boosibri last year. There's lots of cool stuff out there... I just think that rotating the focus helps keep the interest going.
@uscoinguy said:
... There is no disrespect intended here- but the average middle class coin collector cannot relate to some of the issues discussed on this post and on this site, so their view of the coin market could well be totally different. ...
Actually I think the "average middle class collector" can relate to the issues @Boosibri has raised - it is just a matter of degree. That is, we all face a budget constraint at some level and there are coins we have to say "no" to, as they don't have sufficient marginal value relative to competing coins within range of our budget.
Definitely in series collecting, even if prices of the missing coins are not rising over time, prices for new acquisitions tend to be higher than prior acquisitions (unless you bought the keys first). So it's a common problem to be able to acquire fewer and fewer coins for a series as time progresses. It's a reason that many people stop a set and switch to another. I agree that not everyone is a series collector, but it is a common way to collect.
@Gazes said:
So a followup to the OP---i hear the market has been in doldrums for years (people speculate all the time on what is keeping values down) but on the other hand many responses to the OP agree that prices haven risen so much that collectors are being priced out----can both be true ?
Yes. Many of the fancy gold coins that Boosibri and I collect have gotten more expensive, at least in the auctions, over the last five years or so. One the other hand, the 2009 deep recession and continuing slow ecomony has hurt middle class collectors who buy coins in the up to $2,000 or so range. Demand is down to common date Morgan Dollars, and most coins in the circulated grades.
This is a bifurcated market. The coins for the upper end collectors are in short supply while the pieces for middle class people have had much lower demand and lower prices.
It's a flight to quality. Higher quality coins are a different market. And it's possible that the higher quality stuff can run out of steam while the rest of the market just keeps chugging along. I saw it happen with local real estate. Top of the market reacted differently, and right now the very expensive houses are slow while the rest of them are moving nicely.
A great warning about would could happen and so true!
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
At the end of the day, US Classic Gold coins are very desirable. Gold coins that are highly graded and have good or better eye appealable will be even more desirable. The fact that so few of these coins for instance have been stickered evidence that many have been messed with and unmessed attractive pieces will garner much interest. I do think it is only normal that these coins will sell for a premium given their demand (as you say in the OP that your "tastes" have priced you out of the market---you have good taste!). Whether down the road they are deemed to be overvalued now or an incredible bargain shall be seen.
Don't underestimate the demand for these coins supporting the prices. Many Philly liberty quarter eagle dates are rarer than the same date from the Dahlonega or Charlotte mints but those branch mints trade for quite a bit more----just more demand for those coins.
@Gazes said:
At the end of the day, US Classic Gold coins are very desirable. Gold coins that are highly graded and have good or better eye appealable will be even more desirable. The fact that so few of these coins for instance have been stickered evidence that many have been messed with and unmessed attractive pieces will garner much interest. I do think it is only normal that these coins will sell for a premium given their demand (as you say in the OP that your "tastes" have priced you out of the market---you have good taste!). Whether down the road they are deemed to be overvalued now or an incredible bargain shall be seen.
Don't underestimate the demand for these coins supporting the prices. Many Philly liberty quarter eagle dates are rarer than the same date from the Dahlonega or Charlotte mints but those branch mints trade for quite a bit more----just more demand for those coins.
I do see the Philly dates as relatively undervalued. Ten years ago I started with a list of dates which I thought offered great value for my money.
I have acquired many of them:
1842 $2.5
1844 $2.5
1838-C $5
1842-P LDLL and SDSL $5
1842-D Large Date $5
1842-O $5
1847-O $5
1850 $5
1858-1860 $5's
1858-S - 1860-S $5's
1838 $10
Maybe I'll get back to forming that list again some day and pursue it.
You and I have had this conversation but it remains relevant. I am in similar boat but am still after only a few of the pieces you talk about. Most other focus remains in US issues that I consider undervalued because of rarity/demand or grade/originality combos that are fun.
My problem remains finding these damn things. I still can't find gem original Swiss confederation type, shooters or five francs especially. Drives me nuts.
@Gazes said:
At the end of the day, US Classic Gold coins are very desirable. Gold coins that are highly graded and have good or better eye appealable will be even more desirable. The fact that so few of these coins for instance have been stickered evidence that many have been messed with and unmessed attractive pieces will garner much interest. I do think it is only normal that these coins will sell for a premium given their demand (as you say in the OP that your "tastes" have priced you out of the market---you have good taste!). Whether down the road they are deemed to be overvalued now or an incredible bargain shall be seen.
Don't underestimate the demand for these coins supporting the prices. Many Philly liberty quarter eagle dates are rarer than the same date from the Dahlonega or Charlotte mints but those branch mints trade for quite a bit more----just more demand for those coins.
I do see the Philly dates as relatively undervalued. Ten years ago I started with a list of dates which I thought offered great value for my money.
I have acquired many of them:
1842 $2.5
1844 $2.5
1838-C $5
1842-P LDLL and SDSL $5
1842-D Large Date $5
1842-O $5
1847-O $5
1850 $5
1858-1860 $5's
1858-S - 1860-S $5's
1838 $10
Maybe I'll get back to forming that list again some day and pursue it.
I recently passed on an amazing coin which was priced just short of $150.
Just sharing while I have a Rolling Rock from a hot cafe in Yakima.
Woof. Hot in Yakima is a whole new world for most. Only thing I liked about Yakima was grabbing a Miners burger on the way out of town back to Tri-Cities.
As for coins, a 50pc commem set has been the focus for the better part of 5 years. There is enough diversity there to keep me interested and pricing wise it is low enough to view it as a sunk/entertainment cost.
Never really been interested in date sets of a single denom. As for gold coins, I enjoy it if it is priced near melt, which allows me to look at it as a numismatic/inflation tool.
I've tried to buy a couple foreign coins (usually from CRO) but emailed to late. Just liked the look of them. As of now my foreign holdings would be the Bermuda triangle proofs and my Cook Island proof set.
@coinkat said:
So you can get Rolling Rock in Yakima? Try Yueling... Not sure it has found its way that far west.
Having grown up in WA and lived in Philly for a spell, I can say I've seen RR both places, but YL I've only seen FL (outside of PA). I live in Austin now, and I've never seen it here, although I've looked and hoped and dreamed.
Edited to add: Excuse me, not Yuengling. I mean to say LAGER.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@coinkat said:
Not the case... Just a failure to meet expectations today.
Dayum. I pictured you watching a Classic Game on try Big Ten Network with your feet on the table knocking back a cold one with one hand and typing on the other.................sounds great actually
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I am in the same boat. I have had the luck to get some amazing gold pieces and from my list of around 25, there are around 5-6 still on that list still desirable and a good one of each will be 5 figures. For the pieces I have, there is no reason to sell because I don't need the money, and they would probably sell for 80-90% purchase price for the whole shebang, but am reluctant to put in another $50-100K to get those last pieces. You gotta ask yourself, when is too much too much? So I am refocusing to 1 or 2 areas where the prices are less but the collecting just as enjoyable.
@Weiss said:
Yep, this is an eye-opening thread for sure.
I've been a coin collector for 40+ years, but I've never really been a series collector. It's hard to empathize with people who "need" a particular coin to satisfy a hole in their set. I've always gone after pieces I thought were really cool or beautiful. My collection evolved to a box of 20 several years ago, with about half the pieces US and half darkside. And it's continued to evolve to where many of the US pieces are US in name only, like the pine tree shilling, or have been squeezed out by US exonumia (I really don't like that term ).
I now have just four spaces that are "regular" US coins, and two of those are special one year type pieces (1913 buffalo, 1921 peace).
Your Box of 20 is awesome, and reflects very well your identity as a collector. After having recently finished a set if IHC PR coins averaging 66, I am inspired by your Box of 20 to make my own box of twenty rather than immerse myself in a whole new date set of coins. And even better it is not Registry Set rated. But you can still display on the Registry (I think?).
And as a note to Boosbri and RYK, you can always afford twenty great coins that reflect your collecting ability without getting into the deep part of our pond. And thanks to Boosbri for sharing his perspective on a very important collecting perspective.
I don't believe in the term "under valued". I maybe could be sold on "positioned to skew rapidly while reacting to minor changes to the (supply vs demand) ratio.
I think we collectors see actual market reactions to our organic demand when we define sets and build them. Couple to the monkey see /monkey do nature of collectors, It always seems what we are staring at is going up in price as we feed into the skewing of demand. On rare stuff just 2-3 active buyers makes all the difference in the world.
if you are a reactive collector, it will always cost you more than your "mentor"
If you are a mentor, one would be wise not to have too many disciples all chasing the same chi.
As long as a collector doesn't get caught up in the registry craze, there are always interesting series/grades to collect that are enjoyable and challenging. I have collected rare local medals - there is no finish line with those, world gold, early US coins with a lot of experience in circulation, wrote a book, even finished a set of 1807-1812 $5 gold in mid-circulated grades - that was a challenge as they are more common in AU-MS.
Enjoying some Woodinville Whiskey Company straight rye - in Woodinville!
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
My dad went through this, except with stamps. He had a massive us collection, and moved to England and got hooked on British stamps. He built a collection along the US model, color shifts, perforations, water marks, and words I do not even know. He was spending 5K a month on it.
Unfortunately, he passed very quickly, years after he had moved back to the US. I looked up both his major dealer in England, and both passed within 6 months. So I have a very detailed, obscure, collection, in the US, and no "dealer" in England, and I am not about to send that kind of $$ over there and hope for the best, so right now, it sits.
@jayPem said:
I'm with the OP all the way...except on one very important point.
Campari Spritz only for me chum
Ah, an aristocrat
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@coinkat said:
Mirror Pond Pale Ale... I take it is limited to the Pacific Northwest?
None of the Deschutes Brewery beers are limited to the PNW - you can get all 3 pretty much anywhere in the west now and slowly moving east. Can't get them in Boston or DC tho', etc.
@mustangmanbob said:
My dad went through this, except with stamps. He had a massive us collection, and moved to England and got hooked on British stamps. He built a collection along the US model, color shifts, perforations, water marks, and words I do not even know. He was spending 5K a month on it.
Unfortunately, he passed very quickly, years after he had moved back to the US. I looked up both his major dealer in England, and both passed within 6 months. So I have a very detailed, obscure, collection, in the US, and no "dealer" in England, and I am not about to send that kind of $$ over there and hope for the best, so right now, it sits.
That sounds like a cool collection. Is there a registry for these or other way to post photos? Seems like it could be an interesting collection to view.
I am like the OP. I started collecting coins ~5 years ago and was quickly driven towards collecting world coins, where I still stay. Price is ultimately what drove me away from US coins. Any US coin I could reasonably afford was common, easy to find, and not particularly special. The price guides, grading, and (fear of) counterfeits for US coins are absolutely punishing for a new collector. With large percentage price differences from grade to grade, it's a minefield for a new collector.
With collecting world coins, I can search for, buy and bid on interesting coins for affordable prices. I have managed to build a respectable German coin collection that is excellent in quality and breadth. An example I like to give is there was one type coin I was looking for an MS64 or better example in. It took about 2 years until I found a suitable one, and I overpaid
for it with 75 dollars since I really wanted it. There aren't any (or many) US coins that hard to find that are that affordable.
After several years of experience collecting world coins I have developed my own taste and have enough numismatic experience to try and navigate the US coin grade/pricing/details/counterfeits minefield without getting screwed. I may have benefited from getting my education from world coins because everything is predominantly raw, so I had to learn how to evaluate everything on it's own merit and establish my own preferences. Every time I get close to starting a US set I keep getting pulled back to world material because of how interesting things are for the value.
I would say that I was pushed away from US coins due to prices and due to the fact that it was generally unfriendly to new collectors.
I would like to have a quality US collection down the road and am personally hoping that prices continue to drop.
I'm in a similar situation. I usually go to shows now to visit with people I can only see at such shows. I look at coins not for purposes of buying them, but rather, to see what is getting into which holders these days, and whether or not I agree with the grade of said coin(s). Many dealers still think they can get strong retail pricing for coins that either aren't all that scarce or not all there for the grade. I know who they are and I don't pay much attention to them.
Between what I see being offered for how much money in which holders, I am in no hurry to buy anything right now. I won't stretch for any coin, unless it's all there for the grade, and I know I won't see another one for at least another five years. Not many coins in that class for me.
The last coin I bought was an all there 1817 CBH in PC 4. Not many Unc. CBHs like that. I was able to get it because it wasn't deemed to be registry set material, no one else wanted it, and the dealer had to unload it.
In making a major purchase (for you), you have to ask yourself whether the value is there. For me, if it's not early type, the answer is usually no. And if it is early type, is the coin all there for the grade?
It is too easy to be buried in a coin right when you buy it right now. No thank you.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@renman95 said:
I would like the OP to know that I have enjoyed reading this thread from a cafe in Vienna while drinking a Schweppes Original Bitter Lemon. ;-)
If you want to go more regional to east of the cascades Washington, I'd highly recommend Ice Harbor Run Away Red. Preferably from the brewery in Kennewick. Best bet is to order a pig full of it. You'll enjoy it.
For a newer collector, this thread is disheartening. I recently stumbled back into coin collecting, but in a very selective manner. I last was a serious collector before the internet, when filling holes in albums was a challenge that took patience. Now with the ebay and online auctions, it seems that just about everything is available if you have enough money to throw at it. And there is always someone with more money than me. So I looked for a doable numismatic challenge where I wouldn't be competing against pockets far deeper than mine, and I stared collecting 20c coins by die variety.
In the past year or so, I have managed to nearly complete my die variety set, without ever buying a coin that was attributed correctly by the sellers. The only coins that I am missing are a few of the common 1875-S's that I just haven't gotten around to buying yet; two of the 75-CC's (BF-3 & BF-5); the two proof only issues which are available, as discussed elsewhere on these pages, if I cared to have a money fight with somebody on an auction room floor; and the two "stoppers" (the 76-CC and the branch mint proof). I will never own an example of the two stoppers. I have no desire to get into -and likely loose- a money fight for the 1877. And I have no doubt that I will eventually find the 75-CC's that I am missing, because even though only a few are now known, there is a shitton of them out there.
I have picked up all the varieties of the 1876 online from dealers who should have known better, including my proof 1876 BF-3R which was listed as as an unc 1875 on ebay).
For those of you who get the Gobrecht Journal, the story of my 1875 BF-3 is in the pages right before the centerfold porn shots in the most recent issue. As this coin is currently unique, this will likely be the pinnacle of my numismatic achievements.
Where to go from here? I don't know of another under collected US series. The darkside beckons.
Elmhurst, alles gut!
If I would live in the US, I most likely would be into US coins and would probably not even consider any others.
your AU 50 C NFL 1880 is worth around 1 K today+.
Comments
This is a very interesting thread. I have been reading posts in this site for several years now. It seems like the majority of the regular posters on this site would be considered well-heeled when compared to many collectors. There is a whole world of collectors out there who feel that spending $200-500 on a coin is a major purchase. A lot of these collectors can’t afford rare gold coins or any gold coins. Or maybe they have some common gold type set coins that are some of their most expensive coins. There is no disrespect intended here- but the average middle class coin collector cannot relate to some of the issues discussed on this post and on this site, so their view of the coin market could well be totally different. The market for “widgets” is still thriving. Conversely if a collector did pay $100 for a coin and now it is only worth $80 it will not cause these collectors to lose a lot sleep over it. I guess maybe the other reality for many here is that once you have driven a Mercedes it is hard to go back to driving a used Chevy.
Well, I understand. Generally speaking, non US real assets represent better value than US. I grew up 85 miles south of US-CA border, and started collecting Canadian when I was in high school. A lot of it was available as I was next to Canada, but was cheap because I was not in Canada. I still have my Vicky cent collection in brown UNC, now worth many times what I paid. I also had a Newfoundland 1888 50 cent that I sold....please forgive me YQQ !
Well said.
It's easy to get a rarity kick in markets less mature than US coins, such as world coins, tokens and medals. I started looking into rare So-Called Dollars a few years ago and now have a number of rare, if not unique, items. It's fun to get relatively inexpensive pieces that can take years or decades to surface. It also requires patience and persistence but can be done with a lower budget.
Bravo bosib
Glad you said it, and others reiterated it. There is a sweet spot in the triangle you describe and if it doesn't keep up with the appetite or pace to keep interest, then one tends to move to something else.
For me, making the move to World seemed logical but only lasted a few years at best, then the same thing happened so I basically moved on from buying coins.
Like others have said, same goes for other fields. Automobiles, real estate, other antiques, you name it, all seem to have the same pluses or minuses. I've basically taken my available collecting money and put it to work on a collectable car I can drive and tools for it and then traveling more, which gets me out of the office and somewhat happier. Inspired. Influenced. I used to travel to shows and drop a bunch of cash, now I'm just traveling and skip the coins and really getting into the places I'm going.
Still have an afterglow from three days in Chicago with my wife. We've gotten so into going there over the years were having so much fun just going INTO the buildings we used to just walked around Exploring!, One bridge has sculptures with Weiman and Fraser depictions and just grooving on all the architecture, museums, food, Wrigley concerts, music, art, people, can't wait to get back. Went to one coin shop but nothing in there worth an inquiry. More interested in the ring of food trucks around block. I could go there twice for what my fugio cost and take my kids and enjoy it with them instead of leaving the coin to them and I'll likely sell it to do just that.
With that said, I had a blast with numismatics, and then it wasn't and I had to look at why. No big deal really, nothing really sours me about the hobby, I'm just chalking it up as other things are calling me harder.
Gosh, @Weiss that is a fantastic box of 20.
Well said, @uscoinguy . Completely agree
Really good post
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I completely agree as well. I've been collecting SF gold for more than a decade now and have less than a dozen coins remaining in the $1-$5 subset. It's been a year since I've found a new coin for the set that passes both quality and cost checks, and I've been seriously thinking of just switching to a box of 20 concept with no series focus. The past few years, I've been spending more and more of my time with world coins, such as World Coins minted by the US, coins of the CAR... even bought a cool-looking 1739 Mexican Real from @Boosibri last year. There's lots of cool stuff out there... I just think that rotating the focus helps keep the interest going.
Actually I think the "average middle class collector" can relate to the issues @Boosibri has raised - it is just a matter of degree. That is, we all face a budget constraint at some level and there are coins we have to say "no" to, as they don't have sufficient marginal value relative to competing coins within range of our budget.
Definitely in series collecting, even if prices of the missing coins are not rising over time, prices for new acquisitions tend to be higher than prior acquisitions (unless you bought the keys first). So it's a common problem to be able to acquire fewer and fewer coins for a series as time progresses. It's a reason that many people stop a set and switch to another. I agree that not everyone is a series collector, but it is a common way to collect.
A great warning about would could happen and so true!
At the end of the day, US Classic Gold coins are very desirable. Gold coins that are highly graded and have good or better eye appealable will be even more desirable. The fact that so few of these coins for instance have been stickered evidence that many have been messed with and unmessed attractive pieces will garner much interest. I do think it is only normal that these coins will sell for a premium given their demand (as you say in the OP that your "tastes" have priced you out of the market---you have good taste!). Whether down the road they are deemed to be overvalued now or an incredible bargain shall be seen.
Don't underestimate the demand for these coins supporting the prices. Many Philly liberty quarter eagle dates are rarer than the same date from the Dahlonega or Charlotte mints but those branch mints trade for quite a bit more----just more demand for those coins.
I do see the Philly dates as relatively undervalued. Ten years ago I started with a list of dates which I thought offered great value for my money.
I have acquired many of them:
1842 $2.5
1844 $2.5
1838-C $5
1842-P LDLL and SDSL $5
1842-D Large Date $5
1842-O $5
1847-O $5
1850 $5
1858-1860 $5's
1858-S - 1860-S $5's
1838 $10
Maybe I'll get back to forming that list again some day and pursue it.
Latin American Collection
Brian,
You and I have had this conversation but it remains relevant. I am in similar boat but am still after only a few of the pieces you talk about. Most other focus remains in US issues that I consider undervalued because of rarity/demand or grade/originality combos that are fun.
My problem remains finding these damn things. I still can't find gem original Swiss confederation type, shooters or five francs especially. Drives me nuts.
PS: RYK is mean.
siliconvalleycoins.com
Looks like a great list!
Still have all but a few and have the toughest ones. I wrote an article for DWN on the most under-valued No Motto $5's one time. Was good fun.
Latin American Collection
Woof. Hot in Yakima is a whole new world for most.
Only thing I liked about Yakima was grabbing a Miners burger on the way out of town back to Tri-Cities.
As for coins, a 50pc commem set has been the focus for the better part of 5 years. There is enough diversity there to keep me interested and pricing wise it is low enough to view it as a sunk/entertainment cost.
Never really been interested in date sets of a single denom. As for gold coins, I enjoy it if it is priced near melt, which allows me to look at it as a numismatic/inflation tool.
I've tried to buy a couple foreign coins (usually from CRO) but emailed to late. Just liked the look of them. As of now my foreign holdings would be the Bermuda triangle proofs and my Cook Island proof set.
So you can get Rolling Rock in Yakima? Try Yueling... Not sure it has found its way that far west.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Having grown up in WA and lived in Philly for a spell, I can say I've seen RR both places, but YL I've only seen FL (outside of PA). I live in Austin now, and I've never seen it here, although I've looked and hoped and dreamed.
Edited to add: Excuse me, not Yuengling. I mean to say LAGER.
My sincere apologies for the inability to spell Yuengling correctly... I suppose I was typing too fast even though that does not seem possible
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I just assumed you had been drinking
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Not the case... Just a failure to meet expectations today.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Dayum. I pictured you watching a Classic Game on try Big Ten Network with your feet on the table knocking back a cold one with one hand and typing on the other.................sounds great actually
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
So the answer is yes. I have seen the 1969 UM-OSU game several times... Never gets old
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I am in the same boat. I have had the luck to get some amazing gold pieces and from my list of around 25, there are around 5-6 still on that list still desirable and a good one of each will be 5 figures. For the pieces I have, there is no reason to sell because I don't need the money, and they would probably sell for 80-90% purchase price for the whole shebang, but am reluctant to put in another $50-100K to get those last pieces. You gotta ask yourself, when is too much too much? So I am refocusing to 1 or 2 areas where the prices are less but the collecting just as enjoyable.
Best, SH
Weiss,
Your Box of 20 is awesome, and reflects very well your identity as a collector. After having recently finished a set if IHC PR coins averaging 66, I am inspired by your Box of 20 to make my own box of twenty rather than immerse myself in a whole new date set of coins. And even better it is not Registry Set rated. But you can still display on the Registry (I think?).
And as a note to Boosbri and RYK, you can always afford twenty great coins that reflect your collecting ability without getting into the deep part of our pond. And thanks to Boosbri for sharing his perspective on a very important collecting perspective.
OINK
Mirror Pond Pale Ale
I don't believe in the term "under valued". I maybe could be sold on "positioned to skew rapidly while reacting to minor changes to the (supply vs demand) ratio.
I think we collectors see actual market reactions to our organic demand when we define sets and build them. Couple to the monkey see /monkey do nature of collectors, It always seems what we are staring at is going up in price as we feed into the skewing of demand. On rare stuff just 2-3 active buyers makes all the difference in the world.
if you are a reactive collector, it will always cost you more than your "mentor"
If you are a mentor, one would be wise not to have too many disciples all chasing the same chi.
dealers love enthusiasm, it is infectious.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
So would under appreciated be less objectionable?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
As long as a collector doesn't get caught up in the registry craze, there are always interesting series/grades to collect that are enjoyable and challenging. I have collected rare local medals - there is no finish line with those, world gold, early US coins with a lot of experience in circulation, wrote a book, even finished a set of 1807-1812 $5 gold in mid-circulated grades - that was a challenge as they are more common in AU-MS.
Enjoying some Woodinville Whiskey Company straight rye - in Woodinville!
Mirror Pond Pale Ale... I take it is limited to the Pacific Northwest?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I'm with the OP all the way...except on one very important point.
Campari Spritz only for me chum
My dad went through this, except with stamps. He had a massive us collection, and moved to England and got hooked on British stamps. He built a collection along the US model, color shifts, perforations, water marks, and words I do not even know. He was spending 5K a month on it.
Unfortunately, he passed very quickly, years after he had moved back to the US. I looked up both his major dealer in England, and both passed within 6 months. So I have a very detailed, obscure, collection, in the US, and no "dealer" in England, and I am not about to send that kind of $$ over there and hope for the best, so right now, it sits.
Ah, an aristocrat
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Or go for the strong stuff, Obsidian Stout or Black Butte Porter........
None of the Deschutes Brewery beers are limited to the PNW - you can get all 3 pretty much anywhere in the west now and slowly moving east. Can't get them in Boston or DC tho', etc.
That sounds like a cool collection. Is there a registry for these or other way to post photos? Seems like it could be an interesting collection to view.
I am like the OP. I started collecting coins ~5 years ago and was quickly driven towards collecting world coins, where I still stay. Price is ultimately what drove me away from US coins. Any US coin I could reasonably afford was common, easy to find, and not particularly special. The price guides, grading, and (fear of) counterfeits for US coins are absolutely punishing for a new collector. With large percentage price differences from grade to grade, it's a minefield for a new collector.
With collecting world coins, I can search for, buy and bid on interesting coins for affordable prices. I have managed to build a respectable German coin collection that is excellent in quality and breadth. An example I like to give is there was one type coin I was looking for an MS64 or better example in. It took about 2 years until I found a suitable one, and I overpaid
for it with 75 dollars since I really wanted it. There aren't any (or many) US coins that hard to find that are that affordable.
After several years of experience collecting world coins I have developed my own taste and have enough numismatic experience to try and navigate the US coin grade/pricing/details/counterfeits minefield without getting screwed. I may have benefited from getting my education from world coins because everything is predominantly raw, so I had to learn how to evaluate everything on it's own merit and establish my own preferences. Every time I get close to starting a US set I keep getting pulled back to world material because of how interesting things are for the value.
I would say that I was pushed away from US coins due to prices and due to the fact that it was generally unfriendly to new collectors.
I would like to have a quality US collection down the road and am personally hoping that prices continue to drop.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Definitely a favorite here in Seattle, and I've seen it in WA and OR. Slowly available farther and farther away.
Try Two Hearted Ale from Bells,a brewery in my hometown of Kalamazoo Michigan. Often rated as the best IPA in the world.
Latin American Collection
That's certainly a silver lining.
I'm in a similar situation. I usually go to shows now to visit with people I can only see at such shows. I look at coins not for purposes of buying them, but rather, to see what is getting into which holders these days, and whether or not I agree with the grade of said coin(s). Many dealers still think they can get strong retail pricing for coins that either aren't all that scarce or not all there for the grade. I know who they are and I don't pay much attention to them.
Between what I see being offered for how much money in which holders, I am in no hurry to buy anything right now. I won't stretch for any coin, unless it's all there for the grade, and I know I won't see another one for at least another five years. Not many coins in that class for me.
The last coin I bought was an all there 1817 CBH in PC 4. Not many Unc. CBHs like that. I was able to get it because it wasn't deemed to be registry set material, no one else wanted it, and the dealer had to unload it.
In making a major purchase (for you), you have to ask yourself whether the value is there. For me, if it's not early type, the answer is usually no. And if it is early type, is the coin all there for the grade?
It is too easy to be buried in a coin right when you buy it right now. No thank you.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I would like the OP to know that I have enjoyed reading this thread from a cafe in Vienna while drinking a Schweppes Original Bitter Lemon. ;-)
Noted
Latin American Collection
Two hearted ale. Served at my wedding. I knew there was a reason we get along.
siliconvalleycoins.com
If you want to go more regional to east of the cascades Washington, I'd highly recommend Ice Harbor Run Away Red. Preferably from the brewery in Kennewick. Best bet is to order a pig full of it. You'll enjoy it.
For a newer collector, this thread is disheartening. I recently stumbled back into coin collecting, but in a very selective manner. I last was a serious collector before the internet, when filling holes in albums was a challenge that took patience. Now with the ebay and online auctions, it seems that just about everything is available if you have enough money to throw at it. And there is always someone with more money than me. So I looked for a doable numismatic challenge where I wouldn't be competing against pockets far deeper than mine, and I stared collecting 20c coins by die variety.
In the past year or so, I have managed to nearly complete my die variety set, without ever buying a coin that was attributed correctly by the sellers. The only coins that I am missing are a few of the common 1875-S's that I just haven't gotten around to buying yet; two of the 75-CC's (BF-3 & BF-5); the two proof only issues which are available, as discussed elsewhere on these pages, if I cared to have a money fight with somebody on an auction room floor; and the two "stoppers" (the 76-CC and the branch mint proof). I will never own an example of the two stoppers. I have no desire to get into -and likely loose- a money fight for the 1877. And I have no doubt that I will eventually find the 75-CC's that I am missing, because even though only a few are now known, there is a shitton of them out there.
I have picked up all the varieties of the 1876 online from dealers who should have known better, including my proof 1876 BF-3R which was listed as as an unc 1875 on ebay).
For those of you who get the Gobrecht Journal, the story of my 1875 BF-3 is in the pages right before the centerfold porn shots in the most recent issue. As this coin is currently unique, this will likely be the pinnacle of my numismatic achievements.
Where to go from here? I don't know of another under collected US series. The darkside beckons.
Elmhurst, alles gut!
If I would live in the US, I most likely would be into US coins and would probably not even consider any others.
your AU 50 C NFL 1880 is worth around 1 K today+.
I wish that there was a "Love" button. Wait, that didn't come out right....
Latin American Collection