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Not the kind of 21-S Morgan you see every day

messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 14, 2017 4:55PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Not a Thornhead, no die breaks or strong clashes. No die cracks, either. Or die wear. None. Nothing but silky fields and great detail edge to edge. It does have scribbles, for what it's worth (VAM 1BT), and they're quite sharp.

For an issue where most coins looks like mush, there are no legitimate DMPLs, and you can count the PLs on a Fun Size bag of M&Ms, this is the kind of 21-S you want.

Comments

  • BruceSBruceS Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very clean indeed. Raw?


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  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Outstanding piece.

  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭

    No die breaks or cracks, or clashes, on a 21-S Morgan? Must have been a First Strike! Nice looking example there.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

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  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @afford said:
    Is there not a single die crack on the reverse about the leaves between U in UNITED and the left wing?

    Negative. Light scuff on the coin.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kranky said:
    No die breaks or cracks, or clashes, on a 21-S Morgan? Must have been a First Strike! Nice looking example there.

    Thanks. 21-S dies didn't crack as much as 21-D did. They just turned to mush, as if the dies were made from potatoes rather than die steel, presumably because they weren't correctly hardened in SF. The typical 21-S has peripheral lettering and stars being drawn into the rim.

  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    very nice coin

    those who are laughed at always have the last laugh

  • coinnutcoinnut Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice indeed.

  • goldengolden Posts: 10,035 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice!

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not PL. PCGS 65.

  • CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @messydesk said:

    @kranky said:
    No die breaks or cracks, or clashes, on a 21-S Morgan? Must have been a First Strike! Nice looking example there.

    Thanks. 21-S dies didn't crack as much as 21-D did. They just turned to mush, as if the dies were made from potatoes rather than die steel, presumably because they weren't correctly hardened in SF. The typical 21-S has peripheral lettering and stars being drawn into the rim.

    But they do seem to get attacked by unknown forces that like to leave gouges on them more than the other two. Maybe a midget ninja worked at SF after the war and needed to vent with some literal micro-aggressions

    The more you VAM..
  • CommemKingCommemKing Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2017 6:31AM

    Absolute beauty. Looks real clean for a MS65.

  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow very nice coin there for sure! Definitely not what you see everyday

    New inventory added daily at Coins Make Cents
    HAPPY COLLECTING


  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What a nice coin and is better than 65, at least in this date!

  • CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
    What I know is that you will look through many of any year Morgan to find one with such clear fields and no acne scars (bag marks etc) all over it, or at least several anyhow. It looks better to me than the MS66+'s shown. Maybe I'm overlooking something?

    Looks like there's minor tics on the jaw, nose, upper check and above the eye plus some minor scuffs in the field in from of the face. These are all in the focal area. Don't get me wrong, it's a super coin but any other date and I wouldn't be shocked if I saw it in either a 64 or 5 holder. 21's are graded with a different standard however and any less than 65 would be out of the question. Maybe 65+ on a good day but it's a solid 65 for a 21

    The more you VAM..
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,647 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice looking 20th Century Type!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Best 1921-S I have ever seen!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • JcldJcld Posts: 449 ✭✭✭

    Just an outstanding coin.

  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a gorgeous '21-S!! And as usual, you know how to show it off properly. :)

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,559 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't get it. They're NOT supposed to look like that.

    What did the Mint do wrong?

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is a real beauty... is that an edge/rim deformation at one o'clock on the reverse? Very minor, but seems to appear on the obverse as well at five o'clock...Cheers, RickO

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is really nice for one of those coins. Usually they are dull and baggy.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    That is a real beauty... is that an edge/rim deformation at one o'clock on the reverse? Very minor, but seems to appear on the obverse as well at five o'clock...Cheers, RickO

    PCGS gasket.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks... I looked for the 'gasket' in other locations...and when I did not see it, I thought rim damage... Glad to hear it is not..... Cheers, RickO

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,878 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Splendid example!

  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,437 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Really nice coin... looks better than a 65 to me. You did well...

    ----- kj
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice 1921 -- even if there is a light scuff! A couple of notches above the usual Uncirculated quality.

  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Such an Awesome 21-s OP!

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @messydesk said:
    Not PL. PCGS 65.

    It looks pretty good to me and without seeing something reflected in its fields, seems plausible it could squeak out a PL. Why not?

    ...well the coin is 100% not PL so there's that...also there is no such thing as squeaking out a PL on a 21-s, even if it's PL...that's why ;)

  • Peace_dollar88Peace_dollar88 Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great looking coin.

  • LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 4,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2017 2:24PM

    @messydesk I really like that 21-S

  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
    Such an Awesome 21-s OP!

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @messydesk said:
    Not PL. PCGS 65.

    It looks pretty good to me and without seeing something reflected in its fields, seems plausible it could squeak out a PL. Why not?

    ...well the coin is 100% not PL so there's that...also there is no such thing as squeaking out a PL on a 21-s, even if it's PL...that's why ;)

    http://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/82122553_23724861_2200.jpg

    what is PL about this PL64 1921-s?

    ...Since it's in PCGS plastic I will guess (with confidence) the mirrors on the fields are 2" to 4" at least ;)

  • CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
    Such an Awesome 21-s OP!

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @messydesk said:
    Not PL. PCGS 65.

    It looks pretty good to me and without seeing something reflected in its fields, seems plausible it could squeak out a PL. Why not?

    ...well the coin is 100% not PL so there's that...also there is no such thing as squeaking out a PL on a 21-s, even if it's PL...that's why ;)

    http://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/82122553_23724861_2200.jpg

    what is PL about this PL64 1921-s?

    That's an amazingly gorgeous coin. PL is purely a function of the depth of the mirrored fields so you can't really say with confidence if a coin makes the mark from pics alone. An in hand inspection is required. That said, PCGS saw this one in hand and they don't give out PL to 21 Morgan's on a whim due to their rarity and value.

    The more you VAM..
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @CascadeChris said:

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
    Such an Awesome 21-s OP!

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @messydesk said:
    Not PL. PCGS 65.

    It looks pretty good to me and without seeing something reflected in its fields, seems plausible it could squeak out a PL. Why not?

    ...well the coin is 100% not PL so there's that...also there is no such thing as squeaking out a PL on a 21-s, even if it's PL...that's why ;)

    http://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/82122553_23724861_2200.jpg

    what is PL about this PL64 1921-s?

    That's an amazingly gorgeous coin. PL is purely a function of the depth of the mirrored fields so you can't really say with confidence if a coin makes the mark from pics alone. An in hand inspection is required. That said, PCGS saw this one in hand and they don't give out PL to 21 Morgan's on a whim due to their rarity and value.

    http://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/82122553_23724861_2200.jpg

    This one is "amazingly gorgeous"?

    That PL64 does appear rather beaten and afflicted with bag marks and such. So PL can appear AU or at least less than Gem and as long as 2" to 4" mirrored fields manifest that makes it PL?

    This sorta seems to me like wine and cheese tastings where witch doctor urine and curds rats won't touch are deemed to be the good stuff. :smile:

    ...what look like hairlines are actually work that was done on the die and transferred onto the coin (scribbles and such)...also, on PL and especially DMPL coins, hits and marks show up way worse than they actually are. So the same amount of hits on a 64PL coin can make it look like a 62 on a frosty white coin.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @CascadeChris said:

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
    Such an Awesome 21-s OP!

    @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

    @messydesk said:
    Not PL. PCGS 65.

    It looks pretty good to me and without seeing something reflected in its fields, seems plausible it could squeak out a PL. Why not?

    ...well the coin is 100% not PL so there's that...also there is no such thing as squeaking out a PL on a 21-s, even if it's PL...that's why ;)

    http://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/82122553_23724861_2200.jpg

    what is PL about this PL64 1921-s?

    That's an amazingly gorgeous coin. PL is purely a function of the depth of the mirrored fields so you can't really say with confidence if a coin makes the mark from pics alone. An in hand inspection is required. That said, PCGS saw this one in hand and they don't give out PL to 21 Morgan's on a whim due to their rarity and value.

    http://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/82122553_23724861_2200.jpg

    This one is "amazingly gorgeous"?

    That PL64 does appear rather beaten and afflicted with bag marks and such. So PL can appear AU or at least less than Gem and as long as 2" to 4" mirrored fields manifest that makes it PL?

    This sorta seems to me like wine and cheese tastings where witch doctor urine and curds rats won't touch are deemed to be the good stuff. :smile:

    ...what look like hairlines are actually work that was done on the die and transferred onto the coin (scribbles and such)...also, on PL and especially DMPL coins, hits and marks show up way worse than they actually are. So the same amount of hits on a 64PL coin can make it look like a 62 on a frosty white coin.

    The Wayne Miller Textbook says that "only one-half dozed or so fully prooflike 1921-S dollars are known to exist. Two of these exhibit very prominent die scratches in the obverse field..." The 64PL shown could be one that Miller examined. Technically prooflike, but if all I have to go on is the picture shown, I'm swiping left on that one.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are you sure he is saying it is PL. No way the coin in the OP is PL.

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