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real natural toning or AT?????? What is your take and why

chiniu1976chiniu1976 Posts: 165 ✭✭
edited May 7, 2017 6:08AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Hi to all, and thanks ahead of time for your inpu
t
looking to see what the site collectors here think, pretty colors but are they real
if you bought this as a raw coin would you send in toTPG or not
mt

:) new to BST positive transactions with au and ag, j dimick, Pandavab, messcrew

Comments

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 6,513 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think this coin is closer to NT than AT. That said, I wouldn't be certain that a TPG would straight grade it on the first attempt (maybe after a few tries). The price for it is also more than I would gamble on this particular raw coin (I'd rather buy something already certified for 300).

  • justcollectingjustcollecting Posts: 195 ✭✭✭

    I think when it gets to the point that you have to quess if it's at or nt, it's just not worth having.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hard to say, but it sure is pretty!

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2017 1:27PM

    what does the back look like

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm leaning toward AT. I Would need to see it in hand and look at the reverse and the edge in the proper lighting..

  • CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭

    Seems too funky to me but I haven't done extensive study on Morgan toning. Colorful though so kind of fun to look at.

    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭

    AT, the red color is too un-natural ..... :disappointed:

    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree. You don't natural red color on a toned silver coin without some help. AT.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2017 1:57PM

    It would be a lot easier to judge with a larger photo...so that the incuse areas of the coin can be evaluated. The pull away toning at the date is a plus.....and apparently no pull-away on the stars....is a negative. I'd lean towards NT but something seems not quite right....at least in that photo.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,289 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's kind of a nice looking coin from the pics if it really looks like that. Even if AT, if it's nice there's always a chance to resell and get your money back. Make sure that you get return privileges in case you don't like it.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • mt_mslamt_msla Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭

    Natural red on a proof Franklin. Yes I think it can happen.

    http://kjvdaily.com/62redfrankie.mp4

    Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]

  • chiniu1976chiniu1976 Posts: 165 ✭✭

    Thanks to all who have taken their time to answer....the fact that I do not get an answer from the dealer makes me a bit leary on buying this raw coin, he has more and the key may be that a lot of his coins look similar
    thanks again to all
    mt

    :) new to BST positive transactions with au and ag, j dimick, Pandavab, messcrew

  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That a sure give away that he's toning them at home.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • CyndieChildressCyndieChildress Posts: 429 ✭✭✭

    @mt_msla said:
    Natural red on a proof Franklin. Yes I think it can happen.

    http://kjvdaily.com/62redfrankie.mp4

    What do you think causes the red toning?

  • mt_mslamt_msla Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭

    @CyndieChildress I have no idea. But it's a beautiful coin

    Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]

  • CyndieChildressCyndieChildress Posts: 429 ✭✭✭

    @mt_msla said:
    @CyndieChildress I have no idea. But it's a beautiful coin

    @mt_msla
    Yes, it is cool. I have red on a Franklin and was wondering why or how ;)

  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not sure. Could be MA. And the picture is to small.

  • nk1nknk1nk Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭

    After looking through the sellers full inventory I'm a little more suspect of the toning. If he is a doctor, he's very very good. He has quite a few similar looking coins that are straight graded from both NGC and PCGS. Different labels which makes me think he didn't submit them all. The one key give away that makes me think it's artificial is the englhardt bullion round he has that's toned similar to some of his Morgan's, I don't think that happened naturally. I would really like to know how he did the pull away toning though. I know pull away isn't a lock for natural toning but I hear it's very very hard to artificially create

  • Bigbuck1975Bigbuck1975 Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yankee coin?

  • CapstickCapstick Posts: 263 ✭✭✭

    @Bigbuck1975 said:
    Yankee coin?

    He uses juiced photos in what i would assume would be all of his listings. So the colors that you're seeing in the sellers photos aren't even accurate.

  • cnncoinscnncoins Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭

    I've seen ALL these colors on naturally toned Morgans. The patterns and the colors of this coin don't look right to me however. It's difficult to describe, but the green in the field in front of Ms Liberty, along with the red color just doesn't look
    "natural".

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 6,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2017 5:37PM

    @nk1nk said:
    After looking through the sellers full inventory I'm a little more suspect of the toning. If he is a doctor, he's very very good. He has quite a few similar looking coins that are straight graded from both NGC and PCGS. Different labels which makes me think he didn't submit them all. The one key give away that makes me think it's artificial is the englhardt bullion round he has that's toned similar to some of his Morgan's, I don't think that happened naturally. I would really like to know how he did the pull away toning though. I know pull away isn't a lock for natural toning but I hear it's very very hard to artificially create

    I don't think he's a doctor. Most of his coins are bought from other ebay sellers (I know since he's bought from me and bid higher than me on several ebay auctions). The raw coins probably came from someone else as well. Some may have been created by a doctor, but the others are just borderline MA examples. The seller has many really nice toners but the photographs on quite a few are a bit optimistic.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,409 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AT. Colors look unnaturally 'constructed' to me.

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • This content has been removed.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know of a very easy way to get to the answer, send it to PCGS for grading. it'll only cost about $50.

    to be sure, there are two factors which lead me to believe it is NT, the pull away tone and the green color. green is a "money color" and not easy to duplicate, it is probably the least common tone color seen on coins.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on the picture, I believe it is AT..... looks like the results of a warm sulfur box... Cheers, RickO

  • WingedLiberty1957WingedLiberty1957 Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2017 6:22AM

    See if you can map the sequence of colors to the sunnywood scale. This is a well researched color progression

  • ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭

    I think this one is "enhanced". Colors that are natural to Morgans but the "circy" look of the coin and the patterns of the colors make me think induced.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

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  • PandavabPandavab Posts: 960 ✭✭✭

    Generally, I have trouble imagining a dealer having such attractively toned coins and selling them raw unless they couldn't get them straight graded at PCGS or NGC. Just WAY too much money left on the table, particularly for a dealer (whose goal is to make money). Obviously there are clueless dealers out there, but I'd have trouble pulling the trigger on a raw toner unless the price is near melt so you have little at risk, which, again, suggests that they probably aren't market acceptable.

    In terms of that coin, the colors look right, but something still doesn't feel right about the pattern. I'd honestly need larger photos at a minimum to make a good assessment. Someone selling with such small photos would raise a lot of red flags, however. Often, people have crappy photos to hide something.

    Just my opinion.

  • FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I haven't looked at his listings in a long time. Didn't know he was selling that type of material now.
    I think someone is doing a way above average job of toning coins.
    Not accusing the seller by the way.
    He was a long time member here. Not sure why he quit posting.

  • ElmhurstElmhurst Posts: 795 ✭✭✭

    First impression is NT, although not sure if it beneficial .

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice looking coin, in my opinion it's NT'ed

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