Why dealers even bother to bring coin(s) to a show if they gonna quote 25% over CDN bid?
DancingFire
Posts: 311 ✭✭✭
When I used to set up at shows I don't even bother to bring coins that I'm not willing to sell near CDN bid.
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Perhaps they have nicer coins?
Typical eye candy for the case to make people stop. If you want to buy it great but the candy will cost you
You sure it was a show and not a circus?...
Because you wore a suit?
If you play the game having a niche probably means survival and sometimes a beachside pacific coast cottage or two,
I can't imagine consulting a CDN when buying a coin for my collection. Average coins sell for average or below average prices. With scarce resources why own average?
Latin American Collection
Nahhh, if I did then I would need to raise my selling price by 20%..
Back then grading was much more conservative.
I couldn't decide which to go with:
I guess you got it all figured out.
or
Are you serious
Here's some help for you.
What makes you think you should be able to price others wares?
Easy...When the guy set up next to you selling the exact TPG coins for 20% less.
And so?
Doubt it was the exact same.
And even so it's their business. If they are to high the market will take care of them by them never selling enough.
Same common date coins with 500 more on the floor.
Probably because they are high quality coins. I have a lot of coins that I wouldn't even consider selling near GS. When looking at coins the majority I have that I paid GS or a bit below are average at best. Of course there are always a few exceptions but if I see a high quality coin I want the GS is irrelevant.
Coins are worth what collectors are willing to pay for them. There are coins that deserve greater consideration than pulling out a grey sheet and paying x or y based on a guide. Even more available coins are not created equal at certain grade levels... The challenge is to find those that are exceptional.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Unlike the current title the title below would at least make some sense. Regardless TheDukek's list is still valid .
Why do dealers bother to bring common coin(s) to a show if they're going to quote 25% over CDN bid?
Grading companies don't alway grade them always right.
CAC could be worth more
Toning or better eye appeal
CDN is wholesale and Bid
CDN could be wrong
All markets are not the same
What makes you think you should be able to price others wares?
The problem is that when it comes time to sell it the first thing the dealer who you try to sell it to will pull out his Grey Sheet.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As mentioned above...depends on what you are trying to buy! Nice original coins in my series I pay well over CDN and it amazes me when some think they can buy them for bid!
Absolutely. Please, please, please sell me your nice, original Capped Bust halves at or near CDN levels ... please!
I am mentoring one of my local club members (who is also a dealer at shows) about CBHs. Whenever we talk prices, he brings up CDN and how he can't sell coins above CDN prices. I try to explain to him that CDN prices are nearly irrelevant for CBHs and he retorts with what his customers expect. I try and help him manage his customers' expectations, but too many think CDN prices are fully "on target" for everything.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
For the coins on my want list I would gladly pay 25% over Gray Sheet bid if the coin hits a homerun with respect to the grade on the holder, AND the coin has considerable originality. The higher the level of originality, the more I might pay. "White gold" and "shiny lugnuts" need not apply.
Heck, I can't even buy the coins I like for the "Coin Facts" retail prices in many cases. Forget the Gray sheet prices.
BUT, if you are in the market for "run of the mill stuff" and coins that are "off" or marginally graded the Gray Sheet can be a reasonable pricing source.
A dealer has to make a living somehow. He or she can't buy and sell at the sale prices. If you think that you should get Gray Sheet prices for your coins when you sell them and pay Gray Sheet prices when you buy them, you are in a dream world for the most part.
I agree with Bill and Boosi et al., heck when I get a coin for my collect at MV I am estatic, but then again, I only buy sub-dreck, not full-dreck coins..... When I sell to dealers, these coins never go for as low as greysheet, the good dealers will pay up for them because they know they have buyers like me that will pay up for them as well. That is the advantage of playing in the sub-dreck field...........
Best, SH
When you go to the store, are you only willing to pay what they paid wholesale?
Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
Perry if you got the right quality level of stuff to sell, go to a dealer that will pay what they are worth. Many dealers I have seen at shows sell the same stuff that cycle through where they buy below CDN greysheet and then try to sell at MV - many of these have a stagnant inventory that sticks around forever. They pull out the greysheet only after looking at the label, not the coin, and want to get the lowest price they can to buy without even knowing the coin they are buying. The dealers that sell quality and want to know the coin they are buying are on the bourse, you just have to find out who they are, rarely do they buy at CDN grey as they aren't into common, average coins.
Best, SH
When I used to set up at shows I don't even bother to bring coins that I'm not willing to sell near CDN bid.
Trying to fully understand this.....to some extent, I agree. The smaller show venues (and even some large ones), a lot of the transactions are dealer to dealer, or to 'average Joe' collectors, who are after more generic coins, or coins with minor issues, and expect to pay 'sheet' type prices. You were catering to your market. It also seems to imply you had nicer coins that you would not sell at CDN, that you did not bring - presumably because you knew you could get retail for them elsewhere, and didn't need to sell them at that show. Makes sense to me also, as I know some local dealers that do the same thing. They have flat out told me they 'save the good stuff to take to FUN', rather than to the local monthly shows. Frankly though I would bring them all, and just price them accordingly. The generic stuff I would be happy to sell at or even below sheet prices. High grade and/or problem free early large cents - forget about it!
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When I used to go to shows, I found most dealers reasonable, and often, when asked, would reduce a marked price. Now, that being said, there was one dealer that set up at larger shows in the PNW, that was incredibly overpriced and his products did not warrant it - not even close. We called him 'Snidely Whiplash' because of his mustache...after seeing his wares/prices the first couple of times and a few discussions, I no longer even paused by his table....@Bochiman will remember him... Cheers, RickO
The bane of coin shows is the guy with the fat govt pension who is a collector that likes to PLAY "dealer."
He's there to show, seldom buy, and strut.
But he does pay a table fee.
I agree with what you are saying. I was thinking more of a collector who can't get to a major coin show and who has to deal primarily with his local B&M coin shop. Most dealers will look at their grey sheet and then offer 10% back of bid. Of course selling in the proper venue is always important if you want a fair offer for your choice coins. Unfortunately many collectors just don't have access to the proper venue.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As others have said. Depends on the coin. I have some coins I would sell at sheet in a heartbeat. I have others that sheet can't touch. I have gone to net pricing on a lot of coins and it seems to help both with retail and dealer to dealer. I'm up front about what I paid to get it. What I need to get out of it. And we either make a deal or move on.
And on the comment above about nice CBH above I completely agree. I recently bought one for $2K at a show that was marked $2,400 in the case. It sheet somewhere around $1,200. I couldn't get my money out fast enough and was happy to get it. It lasted exactly one show in that dealer's case. The nice ones disappear quick.
Yes indeed CAC ? don't matter when selling ...Toning ? don't matter... PQ rare condition coin .. maybe a little more ...
I have not looked at the CDN in probably 20+ years. You just cannot buy really,really nice coins at sheet. Yes, you can buy lots of dreck. There was one coin that I offered double PCGS price guide and still got a no.
I'm more apt to buy a "dirt common" but pretty and higher end MS63/64/65 1881-s Morgan dollar at a show for 30-50% over CDN bid than one at "bid." In some cases I'd be happy to pay 2X bid and still couldn't get the coin. So if I'm the owner, why should I be selling at "bid?" My point is, even "common" coins can routinely bring premiums of 25-100% bid for numerous reasons. And if the dealers don't bring these coins to shows, it sure makes for a lousier show for all sides.
Now if you're talking low end, dirt common coins with average to below average eye appeal, then I agree with the OP's theory. As coin shows become more full of these coins (which seems to be the case to me) then the expectation of paying close to "bid" seems reasonable. I've also brought a number of coins to sell at large shows for 25-50% premiums and later realized my mistake when the new owner doubled or tripled up by getting an upgrade.
Or blue sheet. I call bull sheet!
Set the nicer stuff aside in a high-roller case!
Interesting choice for a photo... lol
The last show that I was at---they were handing out free greysheets, at the door, which I thought was a very nice gesture. When I said that to a dealer; he got angry about it and said that now people will expect to only pay that price for better material. I explained to him that it is only a wholesale reference point and that most knowledgeable people will understand that you'll have to pay up for quality. He was still ticked off about it, as he said that it encourages people to lowball, especially the ones who don't know any better.
Personally, I'm more than willing to pay beyond greysheet bid (or ask) for quality material, especially scarce Walkers. I have actually paid DOUBLE sheet before. Yeah, I know I'm crazy but it only happened about twice and both were examples of quality that I knew I'd likely not see again for years....maybe not ever.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Yup, I was referring to generic common date slab coins.
Yup that is a tough one to overcome, thanks for the clarification.
Best, SH
Okay, that makes sense and is certainly understandable.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
A few years ago, before they updated the prices on the Greysheet, I bought a coin for 10x Greysheet. Later sold that coin for 12x Greysheet.
Usually when a dealer has a really nice quality coin he/she knows it and prices it accordingly. There are some people who won't pay a penny over Greysheet for anything, and therefore won't buy the coin in the previous sentence. Of course that is their decision, but I usually am not interested in seeing a collection built that way.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
"When I used to set up at shows "
Maybe that is the reason you are no longer setting up at shows.
There are always those that use the grey sheet as the bible.
The fact is you can't buy nice coin anywhere bid.
When I set up at fun I bring my better stuf and all are well over bid and that is wholesale.
Never had a problem selling to good dealers, only problem I with retail carrying the grey sheet!
Some of the best collectors on this forum will tell you the same thing
I'm always amused when people feel entitled to buy coins (or other luxury items for that matter) at a desired price range. FWIW, there are plenty of coins that I couldn't write a check fast enough for at 125% of CDN bid.
Yeap! They usually have a collection when they go to sell you don't want to make an offer on.
I recently had a classic buy the coin or buy the slab customer. I had one listed online for 2X. He sends me an email telling me another dealer has 1 for 1X. These are both PCGS graded. I just happen to have received a piece of sht in a PCGS holder that was nicer than the other piece of sht! I offered him the coin for less than the other dealer and he was happy! Buy the coin or buy the plastic...it's your choice! If he had bought my 2X coin it would more than likely be purchased back for + or - 10% of the sales price. The 1X coin I would not like to have back(auction purchase...pic's lied) and if forced to make an offer it would be 30-50% less. And yes I told my customer before he bought it!
Ahh I get it now...his dream was to be a museum curator???!!!...
Yup, I was selling coins too cheap!...