How would you handle this ebay return?
amwldcoin
Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
Buyers reason for return:
Doesn't match description or photos
Comments
The plastic case contains heavy scratching not seen in photos from auction. The packaging was very very difficult to get into, it was poorly done. We will not be keeping this coin and request refund under Ebay s terms wherein you the seller needs to pay for return shipping and provide a full refund.
Ebay item: ebay.com/itm/1944-D-Jefferson-Nickel-NGC-MS-67-Silver-War-Nickel-/302251374665?rd=1
Pictures with and without light of scratches:
There is absolutely no way to hide the scratches it has now in a picture. There is no way I would not mention or see said scratches on the holder. I have been praised for my method of packing. I use a brown manila envelope,place the coin in bubble mailer and staple inside a cardboard insert,which I staple to the manila envelope. Keeps the package cutters at bay.
Either the buyer scratched the coin(these are deep scratches you can hang a fingernail on!) opening the package....which is really not that difficult to open, or scratched it intentionally so he could do an item not as described. I think the later due to how many scratches there are!
Of course after talking with ebay...I have to eat it if he will not agree to a reholder cost.
Comments
good ol ebay
unfortunately, probably no way to win this one
Handle the return in the manner in which you experience the least loss with a minimal expenditure of time and trouble. Block the buyer/bidder. Move on and don't look back.
I would fight it to the last reasonable effort. They apparently damaged your coin holder.
Wow that is scandalous and fraudulent.
Original photos show no damage. I'm really bummed to hear a Jefferson collector would pull shenanigans like this.
Are they a douche Variety hunter or something? What purchase history and items for sale?
Also, can you PM me buyer so I can block them. I sell nickels too.
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Buyer was correct in saying "The plastic case contains heavy scratching not seen in photos from auction",
because they weren't there! He probably had a change of mind and figured scratches was his way out... dirtbag!
I had the exact same situation happen a few months ago with a coin I sold and you will lose the Ebay case. Might as well accept the return and block him from buying again.
Jeez, what do he open it with? a crowbar? probably not worth the effort in trying to get eBay to acknowledge the damage was done by the buyer. Let us know how you make out as this happens a lot I am sure.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
I would guess that the buyer let their pet gorilla or dog open package because they weren't smart enough to do it themselves with your obviously malicious packaging. Sellers like you who use more than a paper #10 envelope with some paper towels wrapped around the slab are a menace to society.
Unfortunately there isn't much to do other than take it on the chin and block the buyer.
My Ebay Store
I accept responsibility for my actions and expect the same in return. I am waiting for a response from the buyer. I offered a partial refund less the cost of a reholder. If he does not accept I will PM anyone who wants to know his ebay ID.
I would like to know the buyers ID blocking is so much fun.
99.5% of Ebay buyers do the right thing. .5% are doofusses.
Frustrating but it is the cost of doing business on the site.
My first thought before even looking at any pictures.
He probably used something sharp to open the package to access the coin and didn't want to accept responsibility. Some differences can be resolved with a polite phone call, in this case if the buyer is obstinate, you may need to pay for the re-holder yourself. As long as you don't back the guy into the corner calling them a liar which they probably are, you can probably come out of this unscathed which is the objective.
You have his address. Glitter bomb.
Intentionally gouged in my opinion, charge him more for a 'chop marked' slab.
Seriously I hope you prevail.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Please share his name so we can block him. I would refuse a full refund (politely), and explain they damaged the item, so you will need to keep the cost of a re-holder. If they refuse, I would take it up with ebay.
removed previous comment. Had a "brain fart" when I posted it. Disclose his eBay id. To be sure that it's your slab, advise eBay you want a scan of the obverse that the buyer claims to be your slab.
His motives for purposely scratching it don't make sense given the stated 30 day return policy, which leads me to believe he needs to rethink his use of lawn shears for opening packages...
Those 'scratches' look more like cracks.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
To me they look like a combination of scratches & cracks.
Buyer wants zero out of pocket cost to return. I copied his comments below:
Comments
The plastic case contains heavy scratching not seen in photos from auction. The packaging was very very difficult to get into, it was poorly done. * We will not be keeping this coin and request refund under Ebay s terms wherein you the seller needs to pay for return shipping and provide a full refund.
I looked really hard. They are not cracks...they are deep scratches that were probably done with a screwdriver or the like.
Please PM me with his ID...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Oh you brave souls that still sell on eBay. I'd rather have a colonoscopy than sell on eBay.
Ahhh....I missed that. Got ya, he/she is trying to wiggle their way out of paying return shipping. That sucks. I agree with others, I'd like to add this person to my ever growing list of blocked bidders...
Packaging hard to get into as in.. the slab? Or is ripping an envelope open too hard?
Oh and be sure you get the right coin back.. it's free for all now that it's been popped.
Just have him send it back, give him his money and block him. You have to make room for the possibility he didn't do this, that it was damaged in some other fashion.
This is one you chalk up to being the price of doing business.
Would a postal insurance claim do any good re: mailing acceptance and etc.
Probably not. Some ebay buyers should be hung up by the thumbs.
I ...had... to refund to a guy who REMINDED ME that I MUST refund under ebay's stupid terms.
Put his name in Google and came up with a sex offender as icing on the cake.
He got his effin money back.
and a block.
For all that does. He had a massive feedback of..... 8
I'd not let them get away with anything. Fwiw, you can even see a light hairline on the reverse photo that starts between the "P and L." That positively identifies that reverse photo as being of your coin. If you can see that, you could certainly see deep scratches on the holder's hologram/label. No way that was done by anyone but the buyer digging into the package to open it up.
Though it won't help you much, I would forward auction pictures to eBay which I would assume show the lack of scratches. It won't help you, but if the guy does this again...
^^^^This EXACTLY !!! ^^^
You can't win and the buyer damaged the item either unintentionally or intentionally, but you can't win .
It SUCKS that as sellers you are going to encounter these unfortunate losses.
Lose the shipping both ways and the damaged holder and move on .
Just please make sure you let everyone on these boards the sellers ID, so that nobody else has to deal with this Jackazz !!
Sorry for your loss and miserable mood
Cost of doing business. Like broken eggs at the supermarket.
Block, share, and go on.
Extortion in my mind. Please share the name of this bidder so we can all block him. Scratching the holder is uncalled for, especially with a return privilege.
However, after looking at the original listing and the pics at the top of this thread, I can see how a buyer could be upset with perhaps a bit more haze than expected. All for 75 bucks..... SMH
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I agree that fighting to the last is a little idealistic and or pretentious, but I have a black and white sense of right and wrong. It has cost me a few too many jobs in my youth.
This can make things a little difficult, lol, for life in General but I have been lucky so far on the bay.
You can set your settings to block users who have things like; low feedback, unpaid item claims, etc. that seems to weed out a lot of scum. I figured this out when selling Lego items a few years ago. You wouldn't believe the scoundrels buying and selling Lego stuff!
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Not worth getting charged with terrorism.
Refund, block, and move on. I would like the scammer's ID so I can block him.
I would refund their money once item received then block him.
This is a risk in the business I factor in my markup factor.
just get coin reholdered. It's rare but some of them will break or damage the holder.
75 bucks, I'd issue a refund right now, and tell them to keep it, sorry for the trouble. Then block them. You're too big of a dealer to worry about peanuts like that.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
Re-read the first post, and click on the ebay link shown. The holder was not scratched when it was sent.
Luckily it's only a few bucks to get a coin re-slabbed. Why not crack and cross while you're at it? Imagine the buyer's distain if your nickel comes back MS68 and is worth thousands more!
My first thought was the package he was trying to open was the slab, I'm not sure from the pics that he didn't.
I've been selling on Ebay since 2008 and I can honestly say my 'problem sales' average not even 1 per year and I list between 200 to 300 a year.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
out, out, out
the photos in the listing are clear.
@DoubleEagle59
You have a good average, in my opinion.
You must be doing everything correctly.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Well...the guy answered my question and went ballistic! 4 messages in less than 30 minutes. I don't mind outing him publically now!
Here was my message to him:
I received the 44-D nickel today. The holder was not scratched when I shipped it and could not have been damaged in such a manor in the package. Did you damage the holder trying to open the package? I have had nothing but praise for my secure shipping. There is also no way I could hide scratches like that in a picture or would not mention scratches like that in my description. At this point I would offer a partial refund of $45. It will cost a minimum of $30 to have the holder replaced. I tried to attch pictures but ehay's server is having an issue. I can send pictures with and without light.
His 1st Reply:
New message from: rilobsters (426Turquoise Star)
I suggest then we escalate to Ebay ... And I will file with my credit card company and we should submit to arbitration with the ANA ... I will be reporting you none the less. I will NOT accept a partial refund. Your packaging SUCKED ... You received back the item ... Provide my refund immediately. My next steps will be on the online forums and you will soon realize just how dramatically your reputation effects your business online whether Ebay or elsewhere.
I am PISSED now ... I returned the item and your trying to offer me HALF the money I paid ??? WTF? No one will accept this! I AM ON HOLD WITH EBAY RIGHT NOW. I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS EXTRORTION.
His 2nd Reply:
New message from: rilobsters (426Turquoise Star)
You have 12 hours to return ALL my money and then I am going to the "airwaves" online to let the world know what kind of collector and seller you are.
His 3rd Reply:
New message from: rilobsters (426Turquoise Star)
Now we wonder if you are the same myname removed convict from Nebraska who also hails with Dealer # 1571 ... the world is very small ... as I am certain you will realize there in GA ... REFUND OUR MONEY! IMMEDIATELY ... We will never do business with you again and we will make certain the masses follow in suit!
His 4th Reply:
New message from: rilobsters (427Turquoise Star)
I am not even certain who you are ... Are you? ***name and address of previous renter removed****, Villa Rica, GA 30180 ??
WE will Find Out ... and make certain you and your "business" are paying all the proper fees and taxes to both the local and Federal Govt.
The Coin collecting hobby is a VERY ... No an Extremely small world ... As a lifetime ANA member with just 3 numbers I assure you the ENTIRE Community is going to know how you conduct yourself.
My last reply:
I sleep well at night. I hope you do as well. I will eat the damage you caused to save the trouble as ebay will most likely rule in your favor. Ebay is about to loose alot of sellers due to situations like this and raising fees.
Wow! Ebay already thoroughly investigated rilobsters! They went through the whole transaction...messages,me blocking him, and all! I did send a picture of the scratched coin when I reported him to ebay! There is no way this is a canned response either!
Ebay wrote:
RE: Reporting buyer misuse of returns
Hello *****,
Thank you for contacting us to bring to our attention this unpleasant trading experience you had with your buyer "rilobsters". I've noted that the member has intentionally scratched the item they've purchased from you so they can claim that they were able to receive an item not as described nickel. I'm sorry to hear how upsetting this can be and let me assure you that we do not allow this kind of behavior on the site, let me investigate your report right away.
*****, I have immediately reviewed the correspondence you have with this member and rest assured that I have personally taken the appropriate action towards "rilobsters" for the misuse of eBay's email messaging system. We strictly do not allow messages that are abusive or demeaning in nature on the site. In your case, I would like to give you assurance that I've given them a record that will have a negative impact on their account and should there be a strong pattern of unreasonable behavior, severe action will be taken that could lead to the termination of their eBay membership. For your reference, here's your incident number: .
Sellers like you help keep the eBay marketplace a safe place to buy and sell. I can assure you that we take these confidential reports against buyers that are abusing the Returns Policy Programme and review them with other internal information (including reports from other sellers) as part of a monitoring system to determine whether buyers are following eBay policies.
Let me guarantee you that we review member accounts on a regular basis and your report will feed into this. When we identify suspicious or abusive buyer behavior, we determine whether further action is needed to protect our eBay members. Please understand that the action may not be visible to you as eBay maintains member privacy. To give you an overview, breaches of eBay's Policy can lead to consequences such as:
• range from issuing them an informational alert
• restriction
• a temporary suspension
• an indefinite suspension or terminating eBay membership
*****, I know how difficult it can be to be in this kind of situation, so please understand that occasionally, these unfortunate circumstances do arise. Though, we work our hardest to reduce the frequency of these events by ensuring that necessary sanctions will be placed against the reported accounts. I can assure you that when these incidents happen, we always work as quickly as possible to investigate and make sure eBay is a safe and reputable place to buy and sell.
In the future, please be aware that sellers can report a buyer they've had transactions with for the following reasons:
• The buyer made unreasonable demands
• The buyer left inappropriate Feedback
• Buyer abused the protection programme
• Buyer misused returns
• Other problems
Simply note that you can report a buyer for up to 90 days from the transaction they had with you.
If you wish to report other buyers, simply visit this link:
http://spd.ebay.com/RBASellerHub
Meanwhile, it's good to know that you were able to add this ember on your blocked list. Members on that list will be unable to bid on any of your listings until you remove them from the list. You can block up to 5000 User IDs.
As part of my helpful guidance for your future transactions and as you are a valued eBay member, let me remind you that we do have protections in place for you as a seller. Please review the links below:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/buyer-requirements.html
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/handle-problems.html
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/seller-tips.html
By the way, we would like to thank you for staying with us and I can see you've been with eBay since 1998. We do appreciate you for being part of our community and as one of our valued eBay customers, we want to make sure you get help when you need it.
*****, I trust I've been able to help you with the actions I have taken as we rely on dedicated members such as yourself and this will make you feel that we are eager to work with you towards satisfactory resolution to your concern.
Kind regards,
eBay Trust and Safety
From: <>
Sent: 4/4/2017 8:10:00 AM
To:
CC:
Subject: Reporting buyer misuse of returns
Enter User ID of the member being reported
rilobsters
Enter your question / concern
I believe the buyer intentionally severely scratched the holder so he could claim an "item not as described". I offered a partial refund and received 4 threatening messages in a span of 30 minutes.
eBay did right! "rilobsters" blocked. Thank you amwldcoin
Wow. Nice!! I'm very glad to see that eBay did the right thing.
Good for you!
Well...yes and no. I gave a full refund. So I am out the cost of having the coin reholdered or selling at a lower price. From what I understand he is on eBay's radar and if he has done this before, and the sellers reported him,he may be suspended.
Wow, all he had to do was keep his mouth shut, and he would have gotten his refund.
I looked up his "Feedback for others" and it is mostly a trail of leaving negatives, neutrals, including at least 6 relating to poor shipping, packaging, etc. Even some of the positives are actually negatives. I did see that he has left or received no feedback for a year, and then suddenly, he has over 100 feedbacks IN THE PAST MONTH, mostly coins,
I hope, 1) that the account is not hijacked, and 2) what you are seeing is just the tip of the iceberg, that other coin dealers are not on the same end of getting this type of "return" tossed at them, hoping they will "abandon the coin" + him getting his money back.
I might be worth contacting some of the others who are selling to him to see if there is a pattern. .