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PCGS or NGC
CoinCollector1990
Posts: 41 ✭
If I am going to spend money joining one or the other for the ability to submit coins... is there a difference between the two? Does one have a better reputation than the other? If so.. Why? Unbiased opinions wanted... unless you've had a personal experience which has heavily swayed your opinion.
Need advice -- bullion or walking liberties
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What is a fact is that PCGS brings more money in the marketplace. Personally I find PCGS is a bit more conservative in their grading in general . I think within each series the experiences may vary in terms of the standards between the two services.
Latin American Collection
As a well known member has in their tag line...using the search feature can provide more instantaneous answers...although we are normally glad to oblige with questions (stand by for possible sarcastic replies as well).
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
In general, there is significant overlap between the grading standards of NGC and PCGS within any given grade. However, the standards are somewhat shifted for various series at different grade levels and the marketplace will often tell you which series and grade levels are different based upon prices realized. Regardless, keep in mind that both TPGs use proprietary grading standards, which means both can be "right" on the same coin even if they give different grades.
I am one of the original members of both (PCGS and NGC) boards, have been very active on both boards and have submission privileges to both companies, but I have never been shy about stating that most coins would grade the same between the two services while the majority of the remainder would grade slightly higher at NGC than at PCGS.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Nice to have good competition to keep everyone honest.
Ahhhhhh..... Did I hear with stickers what sticker?
What is a fact is that PCGS brings more money in the marketplace.
Which means it also costs more money. By cracking out a NGC coin and putting it into a PCGS holder, all you've added is cost which may or may not be recoverable. It's still the same coin. As a dealer what difference does it make if you buy a NGC coin for $80 and sell it for $100 or buy the SAME coin in a PCGS holder for $100 and sell it for $120? You make $20 either way.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
What Boosibri said in the 2nd paragraph.
Look at the results of major collections and their sticker rates for NGC vs. PCGS coins. For Gene Gardner the NGC sticker rate was noticeably lower than for his PCGS coins. For Dick Osburn's seated half collection the difference on approx 60-85 coins of each was eye opening (39% PCGS sticker rate and 3% NGC). Some coins are worth more in a higher NGC holder. And other coins even in a higher NGC holder won't bring what the next grade down will sell for. It's really series by series and date by date comparisons. The Dick Osburn results almost defy belief....but there they are.
If I were in your shoes, I'd go the PCGS route. And I'm a born and bred NGC guy from day 1. After a few years in the hobby you'll have your own opinions and will learn what coins would have an advantage if submitted to NGC. If no coins had an advantage going to NGC, they would eventually lose market share and close the doors. Common generic coins like MS61-66 common Morgans and Saints have no real advantage either way. Generic coins don't care so much about what holder they are in.
Do others agree with this assessment?
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I would also suggest that in the circulated grades the two are very similar in many series, particularly 19th century coins. As has been said, PCGS always gets a better return in the marketplace for similar coins.
My recommendation is to know your series, look before buying, read before buying and most of all, talk to experienced collectors and dealers before buying. At the end of the day, it is your money an your collecting choices, but knowledge is power.
Latin American Collection
What might be a more interesting discussion would be how do you see the standards of the different services playing out within each individual series particularly in cases where NGC is actually more conservative than PCGS.
Can you give me any examples of regular US mint issues (1793-1964) where NGC grades an entire series tighter than PCGS across the board (ie AU50 to MS/PF 69). I looked 15-20 years ago and came up with MS66 trade dollars as one lone example were the NGC pops were amazingly low vs. PCGS. I couldn't find any others though. And I doubt the MS66 trade dollar example still works today. This doesn't include true variations in their standards such as with Full Steps, Full Bell Lines, etc. where they can be quite different. I'd be more concerned about bread and butter grading factors (luster, marks, eye appeal). NGC has tended to accept more muted luster on their originally toned coins vs. PCGS. But, I suspect they've narrowed that gap down a bit in the past 7-8 years.
I've specialized in unc/gem 19th century type coins and I'm not aware of any series of that era where NGC is across the board as conservative as PCGS. Sure, they might agree on 50-75% of the coins and slap the same numerical grade on them. What really mucks things up is when you submit that same coin 4X to 20X in hopes of a higher grade. We really don't have the statistics on which TPG will give up that liner coin more readily based on number of submissions. If one of them never gives up the grade to a liner coin that's important. If one of them gives it up after 20X - 75% of the time....that's significant.
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Or, does NGC honestly assess their grading as the most accurate (not loose- not tight) as does PCGS?
peacockcoins
But anyhow, one day when I was idle, I looked around a bit to see if MY suspicions had any grounding.
Maybe.
Anyhow......
Well this is a PCGS forum so I would expect an inherent bias in the responses. Go ask the same question on the NGC forum you may hear a different set of biases.
What is a fact is that PCGS brings more money in the marketplace. Personally I find PCGS is a bit more conservative in their grading in general . I think within each series the experiences may vary in terms of the standards between the two services.
Is the ANA any different than PNG ?
Or is CAC a greater performer on a slab than an STP sticker is on a race car ?
NGC consistency is terrible these days. I have to use them for my Redfields.
As far as more or less conservative, they are not doing it on purpose. Just trouble finding 3 graders to agree on a grade I think.
What is a fact is that PCGS brings more money in the marketplace.
Which means it also costs more money. By cracking out a NGC coin and putting it into a PCGS holder, all you've added is cost which may or may not be recoverable. It's still the same coin. As a dealer what difference does it make if you buy a NGC coin for $80 and sell it for $100 or buy the SAME coin in a PCGS holder for $100 and sell it for $120? You make $20 either way.
If you want to put it that way then I'd go with NGC . With the same initial investment you'd make more money
8 Reales Madness Collection
Yes I know that there are variations in strike, etc, for different years.
But anyhow, one day when I was idle, I looked around a bit to see if MY suspicions had any grounding.
Maybe.
Anyhow......
This pretty much tells it all right here!
What is a fact is that PCGS brings more money in the marketplace.
Which means it also costs more money. By cracking out a NGC coin and putting it into a PCGS holder, all you've added is cost which may or may not be recoverable. It's still the same coin. As a dealer what difference does it make if you buy a NGC coin for $80 and sell it for $100 or buy the SAME coin in a PCGS holder for $100 and sell it for $120? You make $20 either way.
Sure if you are crossing $100 widgets just to have the same plastic your example holds but for some coins the difference in price for the same grade in PCGS vs. NGC is a quite a bit wider and adds liquidity
Latin American Collection
My advice : " buy a few coins for your type sets and crack them out. Then look at them and enjoy them, as they are. Do try to make up your mind. I will crack them out for a type set if they look good for my objectives because grading is subjective. That's about the size of it. I like PCGS over all.
I will say that the scratches on NGC holders are MUCH harder to polish out and that can be an annoyance. It makes it harder to enjoy your coins.
Finally, it does seem to be a prevailing opinion that PCGS seems to be a point tougher in grading but is that always true? Of course it isn't but there does seem to be something to it. It does seem true at least part of the time but exactly how much, I don't have an accurate guess.
I would rather have my coin in a PCGS or NGC holder than raw though, that much I'm 100% sure of.
Does anyone know which one has the best conservation program for copper? From my very short experience exchanging emails with a few friends, NGC might have the edge? I've seen a handful of "before and after" images of NGC's work on copper and it was very impressive. I haven't seen enough examples of both to have a formed opinion yet, so if anyone feels confident about answering this, I would be very appreciative for any shared thoughts.
A PCGS 70 sells for more than a NGC 70, but a NGC 70 sells for more than a PCGS 69
What might be a more interesting discussion would be how do you see the standards of the different services playing out within each individual series particularly in cases where NGC is actually more conservative than PCGS.
What also would be interesting is seeing how this thread would play out on the PCGS World forum. Fact vs bias for those who have crossed both ways in the same series would be very helpful.
There is a difference when you are buying, and what you might ultimately be willing to pay, and when you are selling, what you might ultimately receive by way of offers.
Other than that, there is preference of slab variety...
Anything said beyond that is an over-reaching generalization and bias of the crowd you ask.
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My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
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Even with rare dates and in looking at auction results, there can be factors that dictate the end result that are just not recorded as part of the process such as the participants.
I do not believe general characterizations work well in this hobby. My view on this is against the grain and I am fine with that.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Also NO WHITE PRONGS.
I agree with CommemKing re' NGC's white pronged holders. I hate the way they isgust;look!
- Jim
Especially interesting to see what some of the real high grades such as ms 67 etc look like and whatever the difference between the ase 69 and 70 are.
Yes I know that there are variations in strike, etc, for different years.
But anyhow, one day when I was idle, I looked around a bit to see if MY suspicions had any grounding.
Maybe.
Anyhow......
This pretty much tells it all right here!
Well, it MIGHT, if the two coins were the same date, marriage, and die state... but they're not.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
What do people think of PCGS vs NGC for Franklin halves. I may be doing a bulk grade of them soon, and was wondering which one to go with. If I remember correctly, NGC has a stricter criteria for Full Bell Lines. However, I don't seem to notice that in a price advantage for NGC, seems PCGS still brings more.
Do others agree with this assessment?
Yes and No, you can PM me
RAD#306