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PCGS or NGC

If I am going to spend money joining one or the other for the ability to submit coins... is there a difference between the two? Does one have a better reputation than the other? If so.. Why? Unbiased opinions wanted... unless you've had a personal experience which has heavily swayed your opinion.
Need advice -- bullion or walking liberties

Comments

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well this is a PCGS forum so I would expect an inherent bias in the responses. Go ask the same question on the NGC forum you may hear a different set of biases.



    What is a fact is that PCGS brings more money in the marketplace. Personally I find PCGS is a bit more conservative in their grading in general . I think within each series the experiences may vary in terms of the standards between the two services.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What Boosibri said.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ngc will slab more exonumia items than pcgs and is more popular for world coins than pcgs.
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are NUMEROUS threads about the differences in not only coins/medals/exonumia between the OP brands but also about grading standards, quality of holders, etc...



    As a well known member has in their tag line...using the search feature can provide more instantaneous answers...although we are normally glad to oblige with questions (stand by for possible sarcastic replies as well).
    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,...
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What Boosibri said. I belonged to both at one time.
  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Boosibri's answer is pretty darn thorough yet concise. That is a nice combination.



    In general, there is significant overlap between the grading standards of NGC and PCGS within any given grade. However, the standards are somewhat shifted for various series at different grade levels and the marketplace will often tell you which series and grade levels are different based upon prices realized. Regardless, keep in mind that both TPGs use proprietary grading standards, which means both can be "right" on the same coin even if they give different grades.



    I am one of the original members of both (PCGS and NGC) boards, have been very active on both boards and have submission privileges to both companies, but I have never been shy about stating that most coins would grade the same between the two services while the majority of the remainder would grade slightly higher at NGC than at PCGS.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • pmacpmac Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭
    I think that PCGS has better auction results all things being considered than NGC in US coins (obviously this forum). NGC seems to have the edge in ancient and world coins.
    Nice to have good competition to keep everyone honest.
    Paul
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not even close.....PCGS all the way.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Although I have coins slabbed in both TPG holders, my preference is for our host. I do not sell coins, so the sales factor is not considered in my opinion. Cheers, RickO
  • CommemKingCommemKing Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS is the best. Just don't even bother with NGC unless you have to with some specialty PCGS wont slab. My experiences in resell value, PCGS is bay far the best. Plus a better, more attractive holder and presentation. Also NO WHITE PRONGS.
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    Unless you know what you are doing, go for PCGS coins first.

    Ahhhhhh..... Did I hear with stickers image what sticker? imageimageimage
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,971 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Boosibri



    What is a fact is that PCGS brings more money in the marketplace.




    Which means it also costs more money. By cracking out a NGC coin and putting it into a PCGS holder, all you've added is cost which may or may not be recoverable. It's still the same coin. As a dealer what difference does it make if you buy a NGC coin for $80 and sell it for $100 or buy the SAME coin in a PCGS holder for $100 and sell it for $120? You make $20 either way.



  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In my opinion, I question NGC's grading more than PCGS. I have not sent a coin to NGC in years.....
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I submitted nearly ALL my coins via NGC during the 1987-2011 period. And that's hundreds of 4 and 5 figure coins. So I have a good feel on how NGC coins fare, and how they stack up against PCGS. I've made my comments quite well known around here. It's not like I'm biased on PCGS because I only submit to PCGS.



    What Boosibri said in the 2nd paragraph.



    Look at the results of major collections and their sticker rates for NGC vs. PCGS coins. For Gene Gardner the NGC sticker rate was noticeably lower than for his PCGS coins. For Dick Osburn's seated half collection the difference on approx 60-85 coins of each was eye opening (39% PCGS sticker rate and 3% NGC). Some coins are worth more in a higher NGC holder. And other coins even in a higher NGC holder won't bring what the next grade down will sell for. It's really series by series and date by date comparisons. The Dick Osburn results almost defy belief....but there they are.



    If I were in your shoes, I'd go the PCGS route. And I'm a born and bred NGC guy from day 1. After a few years in the hobby you'll have your own opinions and will learn what coins would have an advantage if submitted to NGC. If no coins had an advantage going to NGC, they would eventually lose market share and close the doors. Common generic coins like MS61-66 common Morgans and Saints have no real advantage either way. Generic coins don't care so much about what holder they are in.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • TomthecoinguyTomthecoinguy Posts: 849 ✭✭✭✭
    What do people think of PCGS vs NGC for Franklin halves. I may be doing a bulk grade of them soon, and was wondering which one to go with. If I remember correctly, NGC has a stricter criteria for Full Bell Lines. However, I don't seem to notice that in a price advantage for NGC, seems PCGS still brings more.

    Do others agree with this assessment?
  • DeepCoinDeepCoin Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭
    I can only relate to the one or two series that I collected. For Mercury Dimes, in higher grades, PCGS was almost a point tighter in my experience. To a lesser extent, Washington quarters experienced the same effect. That is not to say every coin was a point different, but try and get a 67 NGC coin into a 67 PCGS holder for a Mercury dime.

    I would also suggest that in the circulated grades the two are very similar in many series, particularly 19th century coins. As has been said, PCGS always gets a better return in the marketplace for similar coins.

    My recommendation is to know your series, look before buying, read before buying and most of all, talk to experienced collectors and dealers before buying. At the end of the day, it is your money an your collecting choices, but knowledge is power.
    Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What might be a more interesting discussion would be how do you see the standards of the different services playing out within each individual series particularly in cases where NGC is actually more conservative than PCGS.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Boosibri

    What might be a more interesting discussion would be how do you see the standards of the different services playing out within each individual series particularly in cases where NGC is actually more conservative than PCGS.




    Can you give me any examples of regular US mint issues (1793-1964) where NGC grades an entire series tighter than PCGS across the board (ie AU50 to MS/PF 69). I looked 15-20 years ago and came up with MS66 trade dollars as one lone example were the NGC pops were amazingly low vs. PCGS. I couldn't find any others though. And I doubt the MS66 trade dollar example still works today. This doesn't include true variations in their standards such as with Full Steps, Full Bell Lines, etc. where they can be quite different. I'd be more concerned about bread and butter grading factors (luster, marks, eye appeal). NGC has tended to accept more muted luster on their originally toned coins vs. PCGS. But, I suspect they've narrowed that gap down a bit in the past 7-8 years.



    I've specialized in unc/gem 19th century type coins and I'm not aware of any series of that era where NGC is across the board as conservative as PCGS. Sure, they might agree on 50-75% of the coins and slap the same numerical grade on them. What really mucks things up is when you submit that same coin 4X to 20X in hopes of a higher grade. We really don't have the statistics on which TPG will give up that liner coin more readily based on number of submissions. If one of them never gives up the grade to a liner coin that's important. If one of them gives it up after 20X - 75% of the time....that's significant.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The bigger majority of the attractive coins that I have purchased in NGC holders crossed over one or more points LOWER into PCGS holders. Some did straight grade across, but not many.
    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,...
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,943 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've always wondered if the graders over at NGC are aware their grading is a bit more lenient than PCGS and if the graders at PCGS are aware their grading is a bit tighter than NGC (in general).

    Or, does NGC honestly assess their grading as the most accurate (not loose- not tight) as does PCGS?

    peacockcoins

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes I know that there are variations in strike, etc, for different years.



    But anyhow, one day when I was idle, I looked around a bit to see if MY suspicions had any grounding.



    Maybe.



    Anyhow......



    image
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Boosibri
    Well this is a PCGS forum so I would expect an inherent bias in the responses. Go ask the same question on the NGC forum you may hear a different set of biases.

    What is a fact is that PCGS brings more money in the marketplace. Personally I find PCGS is a bit more conservative in their grading in general . I think within each series the experiences may vary in terms of the standards between the two services.


    image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    4 letter acronym vs. 3 letter acronym image


    Is the ANA any different than PNG ?

    Or is CAC a greater performer on a slab than an STP sticker is on a race car ?
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    NGC consistency is terrible these days. I have to use them for my Redfields.

    As far as more or less conservative, they are not doing it on purpose. Just trouble finding 3 graders to agree on a grade I think.

    image
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BAJJERFAN
    Originally posted by: Boosibri

    What is a fact is that PCGS brings more money in the marketplace.


    Which means it also costs more money. By cracking out a NGC coin and putting it into a PCGS holder, all you've added is cost which may or may not be recoverable. It's still the same coin. As a dealer what difference does it make if you buy a NGC coin for $80 and sell it for $100 or buy the SAME coin in a PCGS holder for $100 and sell it for $120? You make $20 either way.



    If you want to put it that way then I'd go with NGC . With the same initial investment you'd make more money image

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In my series (non-us, late 18th-early 19th century large silver) I've crossed dozens of coins to PCGS with the average result being 1-3 grades lower than what NGC gave them. PCGS is much stricter when it comes to luster in AU grades. And I have had quite a few coins straight grading at NGC after PCGS body bagged them.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    urk image
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: topstuf
    Yes I know that there are variations in strike, etc, for different years.

    But anyhow, one day when I was idle, I looked around a bit to see if MY suspicions had any grounding.

    Maybe.

    Anyhow......

    image


    This pretty much tells it all right here!

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BAJJERFAN

    Originally posted by: Boosibri



    What is a fact is that PCGS brings more money in the marketplace.




    Which means it also costs more money. By cracking out a NGC coin and putting it into a PCGS holder, all you've added is cost which may or may not be recoverable. It's still the same coin. As a dealer what difference does it make if you buy a NGC coin for $80 and sell it for $100 or buy the SAME coin in a PCGS holder for $100 and sell it for $120? You make $20 either way.







    Sure if you are crossing $100 widgets just to have the same plastic your example holds but for some coins the difference in price for the same grade in PCGS vs. NGC is a quite a bit wider and adds liquidity

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think ANACS is pretty good , too image Then again, it's about the coin. Ask around..
    My advice : " buy a few coins for your type sets and crack them out. Then look at them and enjoy them, as they are. Do try to make up your mind. I will crack them out for a type set if they look good for my objectives because grading is subjective. That's about the size of it. I like PCGS over all.
  • deefree49deefree49 Posts: 282 ✭✭✭
    I respect each one and hope both stay around to keep them honest. PCGS does seem to have the upper hand but both offer treasure troves of information on their web sites for which I'm grateful. The ability to look up old auctions and coin histories are excellent for both of them.



    I will say that the scratches on NGC holders are MUCH harder to polish out and that can be an annoyance. It makes it harder to enjoy your coins.



    Finally, it does seem to be a prevailing opinion that PCGS seems to be a point tougher in grading but is that always true? Of course it isn't but there does seem to be something to it. It does seem true at least part of the time but exactly how much, I don't have an accurate guess.



    I would rather have my coin in a PCGS or NGC holder than raw though, that much I'm 100% sure of.



    Does anyone know which one has the best conservation program for copper? From my very short experience exchanging emails with a few friends, NGC might have the edge? I've seen a handful of "before and after" images of NGC's work on copper and it was very impressive. I haven't seen enough examples of both to have a formed opinion yet, so if anyone feels confident about answering this, I would be very appreciative for any shared thoughts.
    Lincoln coin lover, especially Matte Proofs
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    For submitting modern proofs you have a much better chance of getting a PF70 at NGC than a PCGS PR70.

    A PCGS 70 sells for more than a NGC 70, but a NGC 70 sells for more than a PCGS 69
  • TigersFan2TigersFan2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭
    My ratio of PCGS coins I own to NGC coins I own is infinity.
    I love the 3 P's: PB&J, PBR and PCGS.
  • ExbritExbrit Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Boosibri
    What might be a more interesting discussion would be how do you see the standards of the different services playing out within each individual series particularly in cases where NGC is actually more conservative than PCGS.


    What also would be interesting is seeing how this thread would play out on the PCGS World forum. Fact vs bias for those who have crossed both ways in the same series would be very helpful.
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    Is there a difference?



    There is a difference when you are buying, and what you might ultimately be willing to pay, and when you are selling, what you might ultimately receive by way of offers.



    Other than that, there is preference of slab variety...

  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is there a difference? Yes.



    Anything said beyond that is an over-reaching generalization and bias of the crowd you ask.
    -Brandon
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
    My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would be more concerned about the coin in the holder than the holder. Not all coins at the same grade are created equal. Nor do they have the same eye appeal. So the analysis should really start by looking at coins that have the same characteristics instead of grabbing a coin from x and a coin with the same date and graded at the same level from y. And then conclude x is better than y when in fact it is the coin in x that is significantly better than the coin in y makes no sense. The analysis about x TPG sells for more than y TPG has a real hollow sound without looking at the coins.

    Even with rare dates and in looking at auction results, there can be factors that dictate the end result that are just not recorded as part of the process such as the participants.

    I do not believe general characterizations work well in this hobby. My view on this is against the grain and I am fine with that.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And now to answer your question- the difference will usually be in the coins more so than the plastic in terms of the selling price.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • thisnamztakenthisnamztaken Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: CommemKing
    Also NO WHITE PRONGS.


    I agree with CommemKing re' NGC's white pronged holders. I hate the way they imageisgust;look!

    I never thought that growing old would happen so fast.
    - Jim
  • giantsfan20giantsfan20 Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭✭
    Hard to tell with NGC what their standards are unlike PCGS where they published the online examples of almost all US coins very useful and educational and published book on it. Wish they would update and print a new editionimage

    Especially interesting to see what some of the real high grades such as ms 67 etc look like and whatever the difference between the ase 69 and 70 are.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,758 ✭✭✭✭
    Much of the difference depends on the series. But for me (Buffalo Nickels), I've been happier with the results I see from PCGS.
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: DIMEMAN

    Originally posted by: topstuf

    Yes I know that there are variations in strike, etc, for different years.



    But anyhow, one day when I was idle, I looked around a bit to see if MY suspicions had any grounding.



    Maybe.



    Anyhow......



    image




    This pretty much tells it all right here!







    Well, it MIGHT, if the two coins were the same date, marriage, and die state... but they're not.



    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • CoinflipCoinflip Posts: 842 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Tomthecoinguy
    What do people think of PCGS vs NGC for Franklin halves. I may be doing a bulk grade of them soon, and was wondering which one to go with. If I remember correctly, NGC has a stricter criteria for Full Bell Lines. However, I don't seem to notice that in a price advantage for NGC, seems PCGS still brings more.

    Do others agree with this assessment?


    Yes and No, you can PM me
    SMILEFORSOMECHANGE LLC
    RAD#306

  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Sure there is a difference. That is why I only buy PCGS graded coins, except for NGC PL Commemoratives.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • ExbritExbrit Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭✭
    I like PCGS for my US stuff and NGC for my foreign stuff. BiPolar?

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