Is asking an authorized dealer to submit coins for you asking for a favor?

AllCoinsRule · December 25, 2015 5:43AM

Is it asking for a favor, in that it should be a dealer you've bought from or are likely to buy from? Or is it something you are allowed to ask any dealer? Are they allowed to charge you extra for the grading fees?

I have in the past had a dealer board member here, one I did purchase from a few times, submit some coins for me, and I usually gave a small tip even though he didn't ask. It would be of course nice to find one local to me so the coins wouldn't have to be shipped back and forth. I have been a collector's club member in the past but going that route is no longer an option.

erwindoc · December 25, 2015 5:46AM

I had a dealer submit a coin for me once. They passed along all the associated fees.

LindeDad · December 25, 2015 6:07AM

I would expect to pay a commission on the service, their money is tied up for a time.

Sonorandesertrat · December 25, 2015 6:35AM

You are asking a dealer to provide a service. Don't expect that it should be done gratis. Ask the dealer if he is willing to send in your coin(s), talk to him about the per coin charges (grading, shipping, insurance, his fee) and the approximate time involved. Be sure to get a written receipt.

If he knows what he is doing, the dealer should have an impression of what the grade is likely to be, and advise you accordingly before you have him send the coin to a TPG.

wondercoin · December 25, 2015 6:40AM

"Grading is an art not a science

Coin submitting is a science not an art"

Wondercoin

DollarAfterDollar · December 25, 2015 6:49AM

It's normal business to have your coins submitted by a Dealer with a relationship here or ATS when you're not a member yourself. Associate membership is about $50 however and since your local Dealer will have time, mailing fees (there and back), and the like it's normal for them to pass along costs. If those costs exceed the $50 to be an associate member, that's probably the better choice to get submission privileges yourself.

Unknown · December 25, 2015 6:49AM

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wondercoin · December 25, 2015 6:53AM

Hook your wagon with any one of the scores of dealers who have it down to a science and I have no doubt you will get more than a "fair shake". Jut my 2 cents.

Wondercoin

ricko · December 25, 2015 6:55AM

A 'fair shake' is to pay all the fees (shipping, submission etc.) and also a fee for the

service.... either pay or join and do it yourself. Cheers, RickO

Unknown · December 25, 2015 6:59AM

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Jinx86 · December 25, 2015 8:13AM

I submit many coins for customers. Come coins they've purchased from me some from other dealers. I charge a small fee/coin just to get something out of my time, nothing is free. I try my best however to make sure and do several coins at a time to help spread out the shipping costs or to submit with quarterly specials to save both of us some money.

Moldnut · December 25, 2015 8:19AM

This may sound stupid, but isn't that what they are supposed to do? Most collectors are not able to directly submit coins to PCGS and dealers are supposed to screen coins that are problem coins not suitable for grading.

JCLIGHTBRIGADE · December 25, 2015 8:26AM

I checked with lots of authorized dealers in my area years ago and they "all" told me to do it myself. I think they just like having the PCGS sticker on their door.

oih82w8 · December 25, 2015 8:35AM

Anyone can join PCGS or NGC who pays the fee for joining. I contacted a CAC authorized dealer once to have a few submitted for me and he agreed to submit them on his next submission. It took a few months to get them returned, but it is on his schedule to have them sent out.

I would expect to pay for my portion of the fees associated with the submittal and possibly a "monetary tip".

One must not place conditions when someone is asking a favor of someone. The worse thing the dealer can say is "no".

BAJJERFAN · December 25, 2015 10:22AM

Originally posted by: ricko

A 'fair shake' is to pay all the fees (shipping, submission etc.) and also a fee for the

service.... either pay or join and do it yourself. Cheers, RickO

Dealers get a "fee" by virtue of the fact that they will charge you the same price as if you'd submitted them yourself, but they get a discount on the service/s. Whether you trust their ability to "screen" coins is another issue.

WildIdea · December 25, 2015 10:51AM

I wouldn't see a problem asking a dealer you trust to have a coin or two tag along with a submission. They tend to have a lot to gain and learn the more they submit. Easy enough to have the fees divided by number of coins. Actually, prepping a submission can be a real inconvenience for a dealer and I would understand one discouraging you if they are busy.

My dealer/ friend local BnM trusts me to prep his submissions and ship them when I want or need to do one. They get mailed back to the shop and I pay for the coins I had in the order and were both happy. I know that's a unique situation of sorts but I add that as I wouldn't just ask any ol dude to get in his order or handle my coins. I've see a lot of dealers or their employees mishandle coins.

I would have an issue though if there were some real dogs or questionable color in the order that could bring the group down. Or if your dealer gives you pressure to sell your coins or thinks they get to buy them exclusively, etc. Hard to control that if you have someone else submit an order for you. If concerned, just get a membership yourself or do a walk though at a show if the coin warrants it.

johnny9434 · December 26, 2015 12:29AM

Originally posted by: erwindoc
I had a dealer submit a coin for me once. They passed along all the associated fees.

ditto. i found most would if neded

TwoSides2aCoin · December 26, 2015 12:45AM

Authorized Dealer = Associated Costs above and beyond what a DIY can do for himself.

dbldie55 · December 26, 2015 1:25AM

My dealer submits all my coins for me. Costs me less as he includes them in his submissions so I have no shipping costs (unless I have a stand alone submission for something different and even then, he will send it in with his other submissions so the shipping is only return)

Boosibri · December 26, 2015 1:36AM

Depends on the dealer, your relationship etc.

LindeDad · December 26, 2015 2:30AM

Originally posted by: AllCoinsRule

Thanks guys. Yeah, problem is a local dealer also may not know the series I submit (usually high grade ms moderns) too well. It'd be nice to submit via someone who knows them and can also potentially keep me from making mistakes (I'm no amateur but of course a second pair of expert eyes is always welcome).

Jamie your eye's are better than most of our's.

Nic · December 26, 2015 2:47AM

Yes

roadrunner · December 26, 2015 8:57AM

Originally posted by: wondercoin

"Grading is an art not a science

Coin submitting is a science not an art"

Wondercoin

Yes.

But be careful as some dealers think if your coin comes back with a "score," it's something they "must have done"....lol....and now another commission is warranted. When I submitted through one dealer for many years only my coins went in on the submission. And I specifically picked the order. Any scores or losses were mine.

Other dealers I've submitted through may or may not have 1st shot to buy the coins after they grade. Getting 1st shot is certainly worth something. So there are lots of pluses and minuses in what any particular dealer/submitter does for you. Some aren't worth giving any premium to. Others could be helping you make money. If your nice coin(s) is going in with your dealer's trashed, cleaned, and played with coins, there are no favors being done there. Each submission and deal is different. Each one needs to be evaluated on its merits to you.

BryceM · December 26, 2015 3:46PM

Not to be overly paranoid, but consider a few things before you turn over your coins to another person.....

What is the plan if the package goes missing?

What is the plan if the dealer goes bankrupt while he has your coins?

What is the plan if the dealer dies?

What is the plan if the submission is submitted incorrectly?

What is the plan if a coin gets swapped?

What is the plan if the coins are stolen while in the dealer's possession?

Don't think I'm dealer-bashing here. Most of them are incredibly helpful. Some of these scenarios seem far-fetched, but I think we've covered most of these in various threads over the few years I've been a member here. For me, it makes more sense to send in my own and do the legwork myself. When problems come up, it's easier dealing with one or two entities (PCGS, USPS) than three or more. If it's just an occasional thing, and the stakes aren't too high, submitting through a dealer with a good track record is probably fine.

jdimmick · December 26, 2015 4:50PM

I have a customer who submits his variety buffalo nickels thru me and has for years, and has never bought a single coin from me in all that time

wondercoin · December 26, 2015 7:09PM

Interesting to think about from the other side ...

What is the plan if the collector goes bankrupt while the dealer has the coins and the collector asks for the coins back, or his bankruptcy trustee asks for them back at the same time the collector does?

What is the plan if the collector dies and this person or that person asks to have the coins shipped to them (in a competing fashion) presenting to you (the dealer) a Trust document or a competing will placing them as the Trustee?

What is the plan if the collector says the grading service damaged his coins while in the grading process, but the grading company says it never happened and the collector says to take appropriate action on his behalf against the grading service?

What if the collector refuses to pay your grading and shipping fees as promised?

What if the package of coins is lost in transit back to the collector who told the dealer verbally to insure the package for a minimal amount of money but now does not recall saying to do that?

What is the plan if the collector accuses the grading service of swapping his coins and demands that the submitting dealer take action on his behalf to redress the situation when the grading service assures the dealer that the collector is flat out wrong?

And, on and on and on ....

I have submitted coins for fellow collectors and dealers for the past roughly 15 years without issue. No doubt an element of luck involved to be sure as well as trying to keep reasonable procedures in place at all times.

Wondercoin

TopographicOceans · December 26, 2015 8:43PM

Originally posted by: wondercoin
Interesting to think about from the other side ...

What is the plan if the collector goes bankrupt while the dealer has the coins and the collector asks for the coins back, or his bankruptcy trustee asks for them back at the same time the collector does?

What is the plan if the collector dies and this person or that person asks to have the coins shipped to them (in a competing fashion) presenting to you (the dealer) a Trust document or a competing will placing them as the Trustee?

What is the plan if the collector says the grading service damaged his coins while in the grading process, but the grading company says it never happened and the collector says to take appropriate action on his behalf against the grading service?

What if the collector refuses to pay your grading and shipping fees as promised?

What if the package of coins is lost in transit back to the collector who told the dealer verbally to insure the package for a minimal amount of money but now does not recall saying to do that?

What is the plan if the collector accuses the grading service of swapping his coins and demands that the submitting dealer take action on his behalf to redress the situation when the grading service assures the dealer that the collector is flat out wrong?

And, on and on and on ....

I have submitted coins for fellow collectors and dealers for the past roughly 15 years without issue. No doubt an element of luck involved to be sure as well as trying to keep reasonable procedures in place at all times.

Wondercoin

That falls into the catch-all No good deed goes unpunished

numisma · December 27, 2015 3:12AM

We will submit coins for the public, but only with certain precautions in place. For example, the customer will receive an email with high resolution photos of what he or she is submitting at the time of the submission. This protects both parties since it is a digital recording showing the state of the coin(s) at the time that we become financially responsible for the safety of the coins. No issues of coin switching or damage to coins, etc.

As for my personal thoughts on the matter, I will submit for anyone at no additional cost over the actual fees, but only to a certain point. For example, if a person comes in three times per week with 20 coins each time and it begins to take up a lot of our time, then we will make a correction to the process. It just has to be reasonable. So far, so good.

One problem that I have noticed is that some people have very little patience. I have literally had customers submit through us and--within a few days--begin to hound us for the results. This is the biggest issue/problem that I have encountered with certain customers. Very irritating. I mean, once you get the coins back from PCGS, you will likely put it in your safe and forget about them for years, so what is the rush? Patience is a virtue.

On the other hand, I like using GreatCollections for submitting coins, assuming that I am planning to consign them to their auction. The fees are very low (better than I get) and they do all of the work.

Unknown · December 27, 2015 4:31AM

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BAJJERFAN · December 27, 2015 4:41AM

Originally posted by: wondercoin

Interesting to think about from the other side ...

What is the plan if the collector goes bankrupt while the dealer has the coins and the collector asks for the coins back, or his bankruptcy trustee asks for them back at the same time the collector does?

What is the plan if the collector dies and this person or that person asks to have the coins shipped to them (in a competing fashion) presenting to you (the dealer) a Trust document or a competing will placing them as the Trustee?

What is the plan if the collector says the grading service damaged his coins while in the grading process, but the grading company says it never happened and the collector says to take appropriate action on his behalf against the grading service?

What if the collector refuses to pay your grading and shipping fees as promised?

What if the package of coins is lost in transit back to the collector who told the dealer verbally to insure the package for a minimal amount of money but now does not recall saying to do that?

What is the plan if the collector accuses the grading service of swapping his coins and demands that the submitting dealer take action on his behalf to redress the situation when the grading service assures the dealer that the collector is flat out wrong?

And, on and on and on ....

I have submitted coins for fellow collectors and dealers for the past roughly 15 years without issue. No doubt an element of luck involved to be sure as well as trying to keep reasonable procedures in place at all times.

Wondercoin

What is the obligation to a collector, if any, on the part of a dealer when they agree to become an authorized PCGS dealer? Presumably PCGS maintains a/the dealer network so that those who can't submit directly will have a venue to do so.

BillJones · December 27, 2015 4:51AM

I had Northeast Numismatics submit the significant coins from my collection back in 2002 and 2003 before I moved out of New England. It worked out well.

Is asking an authorized dealer to submit coins for you asking for a favor?

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