NT or AT

DieClash · November 17, 2015 3:42PM

[URL=http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/Kirk_Clemson/media/2008obv_zpsidocrzcc.jpg.html]

[/URL]

[URL=http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/Kirk_Clemson/media/2008Rev_zps4ynnz1he.jpg.html]

[/URL]

OldIndianNutKase · November 17, 2015 3:52PM

Obviously AT. In seven years I could not possibly get a coin to tone to this extent in a Taco Bell napkin in my window. The toning on this coin is not even nice.

OINK

mariner67 · November 17, 2015 3:57PM

AT

DieClash · November 17, 2015 3:57PM

Originally posted by: OldIndianNutKase
Obviously AT. In seven years I could not possibly get a coin to tone to this extent in a Taco Bell napkin in my window. The toning on this coin is not even nice.

OINK

7 years in natural environment. Nothing added but nature. Took the photo with my cell phone. not the best. But no Taco Bell napking here just 7 years on the shelf bro!

TopographicOceans · November 17, 2015 3:57PM

Toned with assistance

DieClash · November 17, 2015 4:01PM

Originally posted by: TopographicOceans
Toned with assistance

Nope...no assistance. Just natural atmosphere. No protection on the coin it had total exposure to light and the environment.

I can't do justice with the photo. Just shows how subjective view points on toned coins.

Kyle · November 17, 2015 4:07PM

The splotchiness of the toning (on the reverse especially) is highly suspect, and is generally the giveaway for AT.

DieClash · November 17, 2015 4:10PM

Originally posted by: Kyle
The splotchiness of the toning (on the reverse especially) is highly suspect, and is generally the giveaway for AT.

So I guess I need to expound on my 7 years exposure. Maybe 20 years will cure that "splotchiness"...Fact is if 7 years on the shelf is considered questionable toning then it doesn't matter how many years on the shelf a coin is exposed. All toning is AT according to that definition!

Unknown · November 17, 2015 4:22PM

This content has been removed.

TopographicOceans · November 17, 2015 4:34PM

All toning is natural, since it is the result of a chemical interaction.

For coin collectors, I think Natural Toning is generally defined as becoming toned due to how a collector stores the coin using "normal" storage methods, IMHO.

If you store your coins in the open on a shelf, then it would fall under the "natural" label.

Kyle · November 17, 2015 4:52PM

Originally posted by: DieClash

Originally posted by: Kyle

The splotchiness of the toning (on the reverse especially) is highly suspect, and is generally the giveaway for AT.

So I guess I need to expound on my 7 years exposure. Maybe 20 years will cure that "splotchiness"...Fact is if 7 years on the shelf is considered questionable toning then it doesn't matter how many years on the shelf a coin is exposed. All toning is AT according to that definition!

Just my opinion.

I don't think a TPG would consider this market acceptable.

I'm just curious why you would name this thread "NT or AT" if you were only going to argue with everybody that even mentioned AT.

Unknown · November 17, 2015 4:57PM

This content has been removed.

Unknown · November 17, 2015 5:09PM

This content has been removed.

Boosibri · November 17, 2015 5:31PM

The question is is it market acceptable. I'd vote no.

Treashunt · November 17, 2015 7:46PM

AT

TopographicOceans · November 17, 2015 8:58PM

Originally posted by: Kyle

Originally posted by: DieClash

Originally posted by: Kyle
The splotchiness of the toning (on the reverse especially) is highly suspect, and is generally the giveaway for AT.

So I guess I need to expound on my 7 years exposure. Maybe 20 years will cure that "splotchiness"...Fact is if 7 years on the shelf is considered questionable toning then it doesn't matter how many years on the shelf a coin is exposed. All toning is AT according to that definition!

Just my opinion.

I don't think a TPG would consider this market acceptable.

I'm just curious why you would name this thread "NT or AT" if you were only going to argue with everybody that even mentioned AT.

Perhaps he just wanted to see how many people were wrong

DrBuster · November 17, 2015 10:45PM

Painted or stained shelf this was sitting on? What kind of wood?

Riverfront · November 17, 2015 10:52PM

100% not market acceptable

7Jaguars · November 17, 2015 11:07PM

No, the opinions are not wrong - the atmosphere it was toned in, including what it laid on, what other exposures were in the room. It does beg the question as to where the dividing line is between AT & NT. However, appearance is everything and that is an ugly mug IMO, sad to say.

silverpop · November 17, 2015 11:27PM

ugly AT

UtahCoin · November 17, 2015 11:33PM

NT or AT, I doubt it would slab.

ricko · November 18, 2015 12:12AM

Was it on the bathroom window shelf? There is (at least according to the picture) some

strange tarnish there... and both sides? Did you turn it regularly? Either way, if it were mine,

it would get a righteous dip, that looks as if it spent time in a urinal. Cheers, RickO

JRocco · November 18, 2015 12:14AM

Bullion tones differently than coins.

This may be AT , NT or ANT.

At this point, what difference does it make ?

golden · November 18, 2015 12:47AM

Originally posted by: Boosibri
The question is is it market acceptable. I'd vote no.

Bochiman · November 18, 2015 1:27AM

UT (ugly toning).

The splotchiness is consistent on SAEs when exposed to the air and left there in many areas.

Was it semi-close to any heating ducts/vents? Areas where air is forced around?

Whether it is MT or not, there are some people that assume knowledge where they are wrong, imho.

DieClash · November 18, 2015 2:05AM

Originally posted by: DrBuster
Painted or stained shelf this was sitting on? What kind of wood?

Laminated wood board. Coin stood on its edge leaning against the shelf.

roadrunner · November 18, 2015 2:06AM

Originally posted by: TopographicOceans

All toning is natural, since it is the result of a chemical interaction.

For coin collectors, I think Natural Toning is generally defined as becoming toned due to how a collector stores the coin using "normal" storage methods, IMHO.

If you store your coins in the open on a shelf, then it would fall under the "natural" label.

If 80% of collectors stored their ASE's on window sills exposed to sunlight, then this would probably be market acceptable and expected. The fact is, 99% do not store their coins like this. It only matters what the current standards are for market acceptable. Storing coins on window sills is not the norm.

asheland · November 18, 2015 2:18AM

that looks as if it spent time in a urinal.

machoponcho · November 18, 2015 8:30AM

I'm going to let you in on a little secret; doesn't matter explicitly on the environment. Proof is in the pudding. Depends totally on the look as to AT/NT. This one toned more on the AT side for whatever reason. I've seen, as many others probably have, a toned album page of coins where the album toning looked different on two coins sitting side by side, one more NT, one more AT. There are so many variables that factor into toning. . .

TwoSides2aCoin · November 18, 2015 9:14AM

I don't care who you are, you have to admit there's some good entertainment here.

bolivarshagnasty · November 18, 2015 11:06AM

Originally posted by: TonerGuy

PCGS will slab it... send it in...

I wouldn't be too sure of that. PCGS has had a recent influx of doctored ASE toners originating in Florida that have been given genuine holders Hundreds of them. A few got thru. Ebay currently has 5 or more pages of toned ASE's, over half with Genny holders.

ms70 · November 18, 2015 11:13AM

NT.

TonerGuy · November 18, 2015 11:19AM

Originally posted by: bolivarshagnasty

Originally posted by: TonerGuy
PCGS will slab it... send it in...

I wouldn't be too sure of that. PCGS has had a recent influx of doctored ASE toners originating in Florida that have been given genuine holders Hundreds of them. A few got thru. Ebay currently has 5 or more pages of toned ASE's, over half with Genny holders.

PCGS are the three blind mice when it comes to slabbing toned ASEs. If there are a few in genny holders then thats a recent change. The recent influx has actually been happening for years.

NGC stopped grading toned ASEs years ago because of that problem.

The question will be if PCGS goes out and buys up all of these AT coins in their plastic.

They should probably start with one infamous toned ASE that is owned by a board member that PCGS slabbed that even PCI labeled as AT...

Goldbully · November 18, 2015 11:23AM

Originally posted by: asheland

that looks as if it spent time in a urinal.

Next to the Mint? get it??

DieClash · November 18, 2015 3:37PM

OK. So I've learned that it's ugly toning; not market acceptable....AT all the way, even tho I know otherwise. No one will slab it although PCGS might. PCI wouldnt slab one that PCGS did. ASEs are notorious for the splotchy toning observed in the OPs imagse. Regardless of how the toning occurred over 7 years the consensus is "it's ugly, AT, not market acceptable, splotchy" or "POS".

Got it!

Thanks!

lordmarcovan · November 18, 2015 4:16PM

I do not usually weigh in on AT versus NT debates, but I have no problem accepting this as NT. Maybe some people couldn't get it to tone that much in seven years in their environment, but if I'd left it on a windowsill here, I'll bet I could have... in less than half that time. (Lots of sulfur in the environment here where I live.)

Ugly? Nah. It isn't hideous. I wouldn't call it gorgeous, either, but it's OK, as far as colors go.

Elcontador · November 18, 2015 4:18PM

Originally posted by: asheland
that looks as if it spent time in a urinal.

My first reaction was that someone puked on the reverse of the coin. This is one of the most unattractively toned images of a coin I have seen in 40 plus years. I hope the owner didn't pay a premium of any sort for it.

coinsarefun · November 18, 2015 4:28PM

Originally posted by: DieClash
OK. So I've learned that it's ugly toning; not market acceptable....AT all the way, even tho I know otherwise. No one will slab it although PCGS might. PCI wouldnt slab one that PCGS did. ASEs are notorious for the splotchy toning observed in the OPs imagse. Regardless of how the toning occurred over 7 years the consensus is "it's ugly, AT, not market acceptable, splotchy" or "POS".

Got it!

Thanks!

I didn't comment as of yet because for some reason almost any thread
that involves a toned ASE there are always the certain ones that say AT.
I really wonder how much experience the naysayers have with these bullion coins.

Anyways, it's natural albeit splotchy and not necessarily worth a premium.
As to if it will slab is anyone's guess as I have seen plenty of this type of toning
in slabs and also genuine.
ASE's are not notorious for splotchy unappealing toning. They are out there
but most just have a light brown toning.

They can tone as quickly as a year or as long as 20 years to never.
So don't take to heart those that condem so fast.

mercurydimeguy · November 18, 2015 10:08PM

It looks thick so NT in my mind...but not very attractive.

grip · November 19, 2015 1:01AM

Originally posted by: Realone

Originally posted by: Kyle
The splotchiness of the toning (on the reverse especially) is highly suspect, and is generally the giveaway for AT.

Splotches have been given a bad rap, certain ones are good and certain ones aren't. The splotchiness with this one appears fine imho.

telephoto1 · November 19, 2015 1:32AM

For something sitting on a shelf for several years, one would think that the toning on one side would be somewhat different than on the opposing side, unless it was perhaps flipped over about 3.5 years in. The color palette is virtually identical on both sides. Something in the atmosphere perhaps, rather than the composition/varnish/etc. of the shelf itself? As to the AT/NT question, I'd call this technically NT as it was accidentally caused by atmospheric conditions and not purposely man made via chemical enhancement, etc.

DanielBoone · November 19, 2015 12:19PM

Definitely AT and will not grade

Unknown · November 19, 2015 3:12PM

This content has been removed.

Unknown · November 19, 2015 3:21PM

This content has been removed.

thisnamztaken · November 19, 2015 7:14PM

Whether AT or NT, it's not appealing to me; but different strokes for different folks...

ColonelJessup · November 20, 2015 4:35AM

Originally posted by: DrBuster
Painted or stained shelf this was sitting on? What kind of wood?

Well posed. And/or what kind of shellac?

I don't trust the decomposition of some of the ingredients in paint. As related by Harvey Stack, old coin boards were pasted together with horse glue.

Non-scientifically, forgetting about market-acceptability, does fugly have anything to do with this?

cameonut2011 · November 22, 2015 4:27AM

I vote it is unattractive so MA/AT/NT doesn't really matter as much as long as the coin is stable.

cameonut2011 · November 22, 2015 4:29AM

Originally posted by: bolivarshagnasty

Originally posted by: TonerGuy
PCGS will slab it... send it in...

I wouldn't be too sure of that. PCGS has had a recent influx of doctored ASE toners originating in Florida that have been given genuine holders Hundreds of them. A few got thru. Ebay currently has 5 or more pages of toned ASE's, over half with Genny holders.

How does everyone know the source? Who is the coin doctor that is doing them?

cameonut2011 · November 22, 2015 4:30AM

Originally posted by: TonerGuy

Originally posted by: bolivarshagnasty

Originally posted by: TonerGuy
PCGS will slab it... send it in...

I wouldn't be too sure of that. PCGS has had a recent influx of doctored ASE toners originating in Florida that have been given genuine holders Hundreds of them. A few got thru. Ebay currently has 5 or more pages of toned ASE's, over half with Genny holders.

PCGS are the three blind mice when it comes to slabbing toned ASEs. If there are a few in genny holders then thats a recent change. The recent influx has actually been happening for years.

NGC stopped grading toned ASEs years ago because of that problem.

The question will be if PCGS goes out and buys up all of these AT coins in their plastic.

They should probably start with one infamous toned ASE that is owned by a board member that PCGS slabbed that even PCI labeled as AT...

PCGS is off the hook on that one; Braddick cracked it out!

DieClash · November 28, 2018 8:01PM

@DieClash said:

Hard to believe it's been 3 years since I posted. Updated pics on the original 2008 Silver Eagle, still collecting dust and toning layers. Also, I was inspired after this post to include a bare naked 2015 Silver Eagle to compare the progression intervals.

The software has been updated since I last posted so hopefully these images will post properly.

Reviewing some of the comments from 3 years ago, I recall several threads discussing the surfaces of the Silver Eagles and one theorized that the solution used to rinse the planchets may have left residue on the finished coins causing surface flaws with aging. My next experiment will be a light dip to add a third specimen to the Eagle's nest. Will check back in 3 years!

blitzdude · November 29, 2018 3:29AM

Yuck, I think I just vomited in my mouth a little. Please get some Weimans tarnish remover and dip that gal immediately.

NT or AT

Comments

Leave a Comment