Re-Holder, Crack, or Just Leave it Alone?

UMCane · November 1, 2015 10:55PM

Hey,

I could use some opinions on what, if anything I should do with a recent purchace at Hertiga NY Signature auction.

This is a NGC Seated Liberty Dollar graded at AU58. This will be a temporary piece (2 years or so) until I find the perfect MS 60-63 piece for my collection. The price was too good to pass up.

Keep in mind that these photos are the typical Heritage "soft" photos. What draws me to potential purchases are the sharpness of the stars that indicate a good, clean strike.

Should I:
1) Re-holder it to PCGS, of course running the risk of it meeting their AU58 criteria
2) Crack it and submit it to PCGS as a new piece for grading
3) Just leave it alone, though the scrathed of hologram does bug me.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

BillJones · November 1, 2015 11:20PM

I don't see an upgrade in this coin's future. If you are going to keep it, the only thing I would consider would be a re-holder, and I would do that at a big show when NGC had a booth to save on postage. Some collectors do get upset by the missing hologram thing.

pmac · November 1, 2015 11:46PM

If you have money to spare, re-holder it, otherwise leave it alone.

BIGAL2749 · November 1, 2015 11:53PM

I'd attempt a crossover to PCGS

At least, no downside risk

abcde12345 · November 2, 2015 12:01AM

I'd remove the remnants of the reverse hologram and leave it be.

(Neat coin, BTW)

TopographicOceans · November 2, 2015 12:06AM

Try for a cross over and get a True View

Broadstruck · November 2, 2015 12:07AM

Best part about that generation holder is you don't see inside like on the no line fatties missing a hologram... Only missing one that's ever bothered me was the one I personally did removing a auction sticker

LindeDad · November 2, 2015 12:19AM

I'd do the cross at grade at PCGS it looks good for it's grade to me.

If it don't then re-holder at a show like Bill said.

golden · November 2, 2015 1:23AM

I don't think that it will go 58 at PCGS.

oih82w8 · November 2, 2015 1:26AM

I don't think it would straight across cross, perhaps a 55 on a good day at PCGS. I would not crack it and submit. I would sent it for crossover in its NGC holder...worse case scenario, you get it back intact.

Nice dollar.

lordmarcovan · November 2, 2015 1:57AM

Originally posted by: TopographicOceans

Try for a cross over and get a True View

This would be my vote. I wouldn't expect it to cross at 58, though. There's a very real chance they could 53- or 55-it. If you're OK with that, I'd say cross and specify 50 or 53 as a minimum grade. Then you can get a nice TrueView of it, which in my personal opinion would make up for the shortfall in grade. (And if it crosses at the same grade, then so much the better.)

If you attempted to cross it in that holder without specifying a slightly lower minimum grade, it might not go, and then your TrueView would have to be shot through the existing plastic, I guess. At least it isn't in a "prong" holder.

It's a nice coin. If the grade matters to you, I would just reholder it with NGC. Otherwise, if you're willing to risk a few points, go PCGS with TrueView, as mentioned.

Of course you could also crack it and send it to PCGS raw, but I don't see any upgrade potential, so you might as well crossover or reholder to minimize your downside risk.

telephoto1 · November 2, 2015 1:58AM

If you're confident that it's accurately graded, it doesn't really matter in which holder it resides, or if it's in one at all.

lordmarcovan · November 2, 2015 2:08AM

PS-

I am facing a similar conundrum with my latest newp, which is also in NGC plastic. (I haven't revealed the grade on that one yet because it's a GTG poll, but I will, soon.) In my case the problem is not old NGC plastic with a peeled off hologram but new NGC plastic with those intrusive white prongs which ruin any chance of getting good photos made without big white claws hanging over the edges of the coin.

I think my coin has perhaps a 25-30% chance to downgrade one point, a 65-70% chance to cross at the same grade, and a 5% chance to upgrade one point. So I'm not sure at this point whether I'll crack it out and resubmit it to PCGS, or attempt to cross it in the holder. If I keep it, it likely will go to PCGS one way or the other. The slight chance of a one-point downgrade doesn't give me nightmares, as long as I'm getting a nice TrueView image. The coin in question has eye appeal a couple of points beyond its technical grade in any event.

291fifth · November 2, 2015 2:18AM

In my opinion the coin is overgraded at 58. I don't see it as being any better than 50 or at best, 53.

Don't throw good money away by playing the crackout game. Just leave it as is.

vplite · November 2, 2015 3:54AM

Looks very fully graded, I would not expect it to cross. Why would anyone partly scrape off the hologram?

ricko · November 2, 2015 4:22AM

Not worth a regrade.... if you are considering selling it down the road, perhaps a reholder,

but nothing more. Cheers, RickO

pmac · November 2, 2015 4:27AM

Originally posted by: vplite
Looks very fully graded, I would not expect it to cross. Why would anyone partly scrape off the hologram?

With this NGC version of slab, the hologram was covered over by many (primarily Heritage) auction stickers. When they were removed, the hologram was pealed away also.

Cougar1978 · November 2, 2015 4:45AM

Its a really nice looking AU58. I see no upgrade potential here. I would get it reholdered at NGC. For retail I would price it at the higher of CW Trends 1750 or what NGC says its worth 1850 = Sell of 1850. Then depending on how much room I had in it sales goal somewhere between cost and market value.

If you decide to cross it, I would specify AU58 as the minimum grade (PCGS priceguide shows 1900 for AU58). Then get it reholdered by NGC if it did not cross. Under no circumstances would I crack it from the NGC slab and send raw with its inherent risks, especially possibility of downgrade.

Holograms on the old fatty holders easily comeoff when price stickers are applied and taken off over time.

LoveMyLiberty · November 2, 2015 6:07AM

I'll join the chorus with my two cents. you've gotten very good

advice from everyone, but it depends on what you want from the

coin. If you like the piece then keep it as is, or crack it for an album

to keep. If you want to make money from it you may be

disappointed.

This piece was in that slab since it sold at Heritage on 8-24-04 and

brought $807.30 and the NGC sticker was intact, but starting to be

scratched. It sold four more times at Heritage until you bought it

and it may have sold at other venues. All of the sales were in about

the same price range and who ever placed the BUY IT price of $1800

is just dreaming.

The edge ding over the head and the lint mark at star 5, as well as the

dark streak right of the wing & reed marks below "OF" hold it back from

a higher grade, as do the smaller contact marks overall. PCGS would

not be as generous as NGC.

Keep it, enjoy it. It's been around the horn and needs a permanent home.

coinbuf · November 2, 2015 6:08AM

The missing hologram would not bother me in the least and I would not waste money running it through the TPG's. But if it really bothers you that much a reholder would be the only action required.

UMCane · November 2, 2015 6:29AM

I appreciate all your input and view points. You can't beat tru-view to fully realize the beauty of a coin. All my other SL pieces are MS63 minimum all CAC.

SL's are starting to move north in value as pop is small and finding a prime $1 is getting pretty costly. I'll reject cracking and reholdering NGC for the good reasons mentioned here. Like I said, I got this at s very nice price so a cross at 55 w/truview still has profit in it. At 53, I should break even.

Thanks again and keep the comments coming.

SeattleSlammer · November 2, 2015 8:00AM

Originally posted by: LoveMyLiberty

I'll join the chorus with my two cents. you've gotten very good
advice from everyone, but it depends on what you want from the
coin. If you like the piece then keep it as is, or crack it for an album
to keep. If you want to make money from it you may be
disappointed.

This piece was in that slab since it sold at Heritage on 8-24-04 and
brought $807.30 and the NGC sticker was intact, but starting to be
scratched. It sold four more times at Heritage until you bought it
and it may have sold at other venues. All of the sales were in about
the same price range and who ever placed the BUY IT price of $1800
is just dreaming.

The edge ding over the head and the lint mark at star 5, as well as the
dark streak right of the wing & reed marks below "OF" hold it back from
a higher grade, as do the smaller contact marks overall. PCGS would
not be as generous as NGC.

Keep it, enjoy it. It's been around the horn and needs a permanent home.

Good research. +1

Stuart · November 2, 2015 9:03AM

I'd recommend leaving the coin as-is in the current NGC slab, and not worry about the scratched off hologram.

Congrats on picking up a really beautiful AU-58 1842 Seated Liberty Dollar!

Here's mine for comparison purposes:

1842 NGC MS-60 Seated Liberty Dollar (Semi-Prooflike)

Musky1011 · November 2, 2015 10:51AM

Crack it.. Put it in an envolope for another hundred years.. Write your name and grade on the envelope..

lkeigwin · November 2, 2015 12:00PM

I'd leave it alone.

It won't cross at 58 and the missing hologram is trivial (to me). Clean up the mess with plastic polish and tuck her away.

Lance.

roadrunner · November 2, 2015 12:24PM

The hologram is a non-issue. These coins are worth almost as much raw. I also don't see it crossing with so much luster missing (more than half gone). Probably a 55, could go 53. It's worth more in the NGC 58 holder imo.

TheDukeK · November 2, 2015 2:12PM

I'd leave it in the holder

Bochiman · November 2, 2015 2:39PM

I'll be the contrarian.

If it is for YOUR collection, leave it or not...up to you.

If it is for SALE in the near future, and you won't likely lose money (incl fees) if it goes down a grade or so, then send in for a crossover. I think it will sell easier, and for more, if it is PCGS. Registry is a big reason why.

A coin is a coin is a coin. When you get into selling, you need to look and see what comparables go for in different plastic and see if that makes a difference. Also, if you get the crossover (you can set a min grade), you can get the truview. That is also worth it, imho, if the coin is nice.

ParkieCollector · November 2, 2015 2:51PM

Note to Heritage auction winners, heat the heritage label before removal by holding the slab next to light bulb for a few seconds to soften the glue and avoid damaging the hologram.

UMCane · November 3, 2015 12:50AM

Thank you all for your solid, helpful input and advice.

It's not the perfect coin for my Std Liberty pieces (see my inventory), but it will fill the gap until the right one comes along. What I will do is cross it over to PCGS (grade not withstanding) and shoot the Tru-View photos. Even at a 53-55, this piece deserves a better home than the current tacky NGC mess it's in now. Better still, I'll post "Before & After" photos. Liberty deserves better...

Thanks to all.

Stuart · November 3, 2015 3:11AM

UMCane: Since you asked for our advice, I believe that there's significantly more downside risk, than upside benefit, for you to resubmit this coin.

It doesn't get any better than a circulated coin in an AU-58 major TPGS holder...

Walkerfan · November 3, 2015 3:48AM

I wouldn't cross or re-grade it, esp. if you want to upgrade to a MS piece in a couple of years.

I would only re-holder it at a big show.

ms70 · November 3, 2015 4:36AM

Originally posted by: pmac

If you have money to spare, re-holder it, otherwise leave it alone.

steveben · November 3, 2015 4:54AM

nice coin stuart!

UMCane · November 4, 2015 7:42AM

Once again, thanks to the group plus nice MS60 Stuart.

I'll leave it be. I have a very nice 5 slot glass top walnut case for my Seated Liberties. One of each denomination, no varieties (yet). The 20c is assigned to my "Obsolete, What were they thinking?" collection.

The centerpiece for the SL is the 25 cent A+R. With the missing hologram to the back, plus some auto compound & car wax, it will show quite nicely.

As a type collector, it's now onto something new.....Capped Bust, Colonial or the Art Deco era.

Thanks again.

winky · November 4, 2015 7:49AM

Originally posted by: UMCane
Hey,

I could use some opinions on what, if anything I should do with a recent purchace at Hertiga NY Signature auction.

This is a NGC Seated Liberty Dollar graded at AU58. This will be a temporary piece (2 years or so) until I find the perfect MS 60-63 piece for my collection. The price was too good to pass up.

Keep in mind that these photos are the typical Heritage "soft" photos. What draws me to potential purchases are the sharpness of the stars that indicate a good, clean strike.

Should I:
1) Re-holder it to PCGS, of course running the risk of it meeting their AU58 criteria
2) Crack it and submit it to PCGS as a new piece for grading
3) Just leave it alone, though the scrathed of hologram does bug me.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

This is why I don't buy from any other company than PCGS as it is tough to get things crossed over sometimes. There is a couple of tiny nicks that they might not like but it does look good enough to cross at a AU55, just my 2 cents worth.

roadrunner · November 4, 2015 12:38PM

This is why I don't buy from any other company than PCGS as it is tough to get things crossed over sometimes. There is a couple of tiny nicks that they might not like but it does look good enough to cross at a AU55, just my 2 cents worth.

BOTH companies have cross rates under 50%, which if logically applied to the coin market....is impossible imo. If PCGS had a 30-40% cross rate, then NGC should have a 60-70% rate. We know that's not true. My own cross rate is 0% at PCGS when it comes to choice/gem seated material....and some of those coins were later upgraded at PCGS and/or stickered. The cross rates include factors not directly related to the coin's quality. I'll leave it at that.

UMCane · November 4, 2015 9:36PM

Lesson Learned

As you can see, this piece does not quite match my other STD. Lib's. I too have have a 0% crossover rate NGC-PCGS. This just does not fit. Fortunately I paid a 53-55 price for the coin.

Well., I won't put any more money into it put it in it's slot and move on to my next "type". Later, I'll sell this piece (along with a NGC 1883 PF65 Cam NC and buy a proper piece to compliment.

PCGS ONLY from now on.

UMCane · November 12, 2015 10:35PM

The AU58 coin arrived yesterday from Heritage. A previous owner attempted to polish the dlab leaving minute parallel scratches across the front.
That plus the usual Heritage soft photos indicates to me this 1842 presents better than it looks and needs a new PCGS home.

I live in Tampa and we are hosting FUN 2016. I'll check pricing both submit and at the show. Bottom line, even if downgraded to as low as 53, I am still ok with the price I paid.

I will present before and after sometime by January.

Again, thanks for all your help & guidance

CommemKing · November 12, 2015 11:04PM

I would cross it to PCGS. Looks like a lock to straight cross.

UMCane · November 17, 2015 12:30PM

Sent to PCGS/Express...I will be happy to show the Before & After

TwoSides2aCoin · November 17, 2015 12:42PM

Crack out. Place in Taco Bell napkin in south facing window sill for two years. Remove. Then submit. If this doesn't work, don't blame me. I'm just being facetious. But, I've heard tales

oih82w8 · November 17, 2015 9:30PM

Did you cross "at any grade"?

golden · November 18, 2015 12:50AM

Originally posted by: BillJones
I don't see an upgrade in this coin's future. If you are going to keep it, the only thing I would consider would be a re-holder, and I would do that at a big show when NGC had a booth to save on postage. Some collectors do get upset by the missing hologram thing.

Boosibri · November 18, 2015 12:54AM

Re holder, I don't see an upgrade or crossover at grade

oih82w8 · November 18, 2015 12:58AM

Originally posted by: Boosibri

Re holder, I don't see an upgrade or crossover at grade

Reholder? Keep it in NGC plastic? It was already sent to PCGS/Express.

UMCane · November 19, 2015 5:17AM

Any Grade? No way...

Considering the price I paid for it, they can drop it down to a 55, otherwise it stays in the NGC holder.

johnny9434 · November 19, 2015 5:20AM

go for it and its your money. hope it works out for ya

oih82w8 · November 19, 2015 5:23AM

Originally posted by: UMCane

Any Grade? No way...

Considering the price I paid for it, they can drop it down to a 55, otherwise it stays in the NGC holder.

Well, I place "any grade" on my crossover submissions after I had one Half Dime sent in for crossover at NGC 55...it came back as DNC. I sent it back at "any grade" and sure enough...AU53.

UMCane · December 5, 2015 8:04AM

Heritage automatically assigns a (ridiculous) asking price if you check the "willing to sell" box.
It's back from PCGS and re-graded to an AU55. I have no problem with that as I got the coin for $1.2k and I have no plans to sell. I bought the coin, not the holder. Most low MS seated dollars seem to have marks, bag marks and scratches. This AU55 is pretty clean. Interest is picking up on Liberty Seated and prices are getting pretty lofty on the MS64+ dollars.

I've sold off the bulk of my coins to focus on a much smaller collection of high quality 19th century pieces. The AU55 looks very nice in its new holder and will have a home with it's 5, 10, 20, 25, & 50c brethren in its display case.

You can see my other pieces in the digital album

Re-Holder, Crack, or Just Leave it Alone?

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